Kanzenshuu

Cell Games FPSS Goku vs Cell Games SS Vegeta (enraged, after Trunks is killed by SP Cell)


Goku pretty easily.


Early Buu arc Hypothetical SS2 Goten vs Super Perfect Cell.
Early Buu arc Hypothetical SS2 Trunks vs Dabura.

Early Buu arc SS Trunks vs Cell Games SS Goku.
If Trunks can beat him ...

So, you think that Goku, having a power-level of 5 around this age, would have managed to survive a deep fall into a ravine? I understand Saiyans are supposed to be built different, but if Goku were to get shot, he'd die. If Son Gohan were to get shot when he was a kid in the Saiyan Arc ...

This would just be incoherent with many other things, like Goku looking stronger than Goten during "yo son Goku and his friends return" , or with BoG's movie writer saying that no one ever surpassed SSJ3 (Goku) and that they came up with SSJG on purpose to do that.

And obviously , there's even ...

Probably between 5-10. I don't think you can get a more accurate answer than this.


So, you think that Goku, having a power-level of 5 around this age, would have managed to survive a deep fall into a ravine? I understand Saiyans are supposed to be built different, but if Goku were to get shot ...

I know where that EML quote comes from. From one of the first spanish translations of the manga. I was also convinced the merger meant a 5x boost because of that translation until I watched that scene in japanese for the first time.
It turns out there is no such line, but one more vague: Many ...

Probably between 5-10. I don't think you can get a more accurate answer than this.

BernardoCairo wrote: Fri Mar 14, 2025 8:58 pm

dragon boss z wrote: Fri Mar 14, 2025 7:13 pmThat's what I said. You literally quoted be saying "ssj Goku" and "ssj2 Gohan"

I know. I asked this because there was a bit of confusion in the replies after your post.

yeah, dragon ball fans can't read

1. They always say they are at their limit then break past it
2. Goku may have made that assessment for himself but he can't gauge if gohan has reached his limit
3.Goku is in fact stronger than SSJ2 Cell saga gohan


1. Eh, in the original manga Vegeta said he reached his limits during the ...

Goku implied they were near their limit and would just be wasting their time. The Buu saga implies they didn't get that much stronger after 7 years of hard training as ssj Goku was still weaker than Cell games ssj2 Gohan. A lot of the "saiyans and other characters get dozens of times stronger every ...

See, here's the thing: from the moment we acknowledge Kid Boo's power most likely went down, we have little to no reason to assume it went back up, let alone above the level Super Boo has displayed, which was apparently enough for Goku not to try to take him on at all, as opposed to actually ...

Sorry, but I find all that difficult to buy into. Sure, Vegeta commented on Kid Boo's height, but if indeed Kid Boo's power didn't change from when Super Boo turned Buff, then I don't see how his size is supposed to help them with his power or regeneration when their whole goal was to decrease his ...

I mean, it is pretty damning evidence. We're talking about a battle crazy Saiyan who usually wouldn't turn down an opportunity to fight strong opponents one-on-one, practically crapping bricks at the idea of taking Super Boo on by himself, to the point he condemns Vegeta for destroying their ...

The android is stronger.

I'm not saying that Goten and Trunks are much weaker than 18, but I have no doubt that they are somewhat weaker. Why? Because when 18 finds out who they are after they transform into SSJ, even knowing that SSJ is an increase in their power, she doesn't seem worried ...

Piccolo was already stronger than the kids by the RoF arc and considering the kids are confirmed to have gotten stronger at the start of DBS, Piccolo was most likely stronger than them in the Boo arc as well.


When was it stated Piccolo was stronger than the kids? And when was it stated the kids ...

Piccolo’s strength is a bit too ambiguous and probably the most difficult to scale in the series.

While he definitely improved after training in the time chamber, there’s little concrete evidence suggesting he surpassed Super Vegeta. Cell specifically notes that only Vegeta and Trunks were ...

What proof is there Piccolo got significantly stronger than his encounter vs #17? Cell only mentions Vegeta and Trunks holding their own against the Cell Jrs. They seem to be in regular Super Saiyan in the manga too, not even Grade 2. Sure, he went into the ROSAT, but we don't see anything ...

How Far They Get (Assuming Base Goku > Piccolo)
1. Suppressed Final Form Freeza – Clear.
2. 50% Freeza – Clear.
3. 100% Freeza – Clear.
4. SSJ Trunks (Android Saga) – Goten and Trunks likely clear. Goku, Vegeta and Gohan clear.
5. SSJ Vegeta (Android Saga) – Goten and Trunks should win, but ...

I really don't care if some people accept that or not. Nothing in Daima compared base Goku and Shin in their normal selves.

Also, Toriyama rewrote BoG and that Freeza line is in the film so it is from Toriyama.


I agree that the line almost definitely came from Toriyama, but the Glorio>Shin ...

Yes, Goku and Vegeta got nerfed badly, but you are arguing Shin got nerfed even worse than them.

Nothing contradicts it so I don't see the harm. It preserves what Beerus said in BoG.


Eh, I don't think many people would accept that logic. The only way I think Frieza>base Goku stands is if we ...