Kanzenshuu

Problem is, this is all assuming that the difference between Vegito and SSG is exactly the same now as it was back then. Super Saiyan Vegito was absolutely stronger than Gohan-Buu, but he was stronger as a Super Saiyan. Meanwhile, the likes of Goku, Vegeta, Freeza, etc., have surpassed the margin of...

Who's the weakest character that could erase Infinite Zamasu? Both the anime and manga versions. In the manga, the Hakai technique used by Gods of Destruction is insufficient against immortals, and Infinite Zamasu is way more immortal than normal. In the anime, I imagine the same applies, to the ex...

Hard to say, as the situation hasn't ever come up in anything besides DB Fusions, and that's just a game doing it all for the fun and for cool reference, and not really something to take seriously. I imagine that if it's ever addressed, they'll handwave it by saying that the magic that creates Fusio...

In terms of who he respected the most, who also STAYED a villain (a.k.a. no Vegeta and Piccolo kind of antagonists), hard to say. Jiren isn't a villain, so he doesn't count on that front, but Goku most definitely respects him for opening his eyes to just how far and high a mortal can reach through d...

We really need some sort of DBS manga depiction of its events of RoF, because right now that one area is throwing everything off and making it difficult to tell exactly where everyone once stood. Say what you want about the movie and anime arc in terms of their quality, but both made fairly clear ho...

It's not even that unrealistic that Gowasu was so genre-blind. We tend to give our loved ones a lot of leniency and excuse their worse tendencies because of how close they are to us, even if we should be putting our foot down. Gowasu is the same. He didn't think Zamasu could ever go off the deep end...

I think Zamasu is about the closest in modern DB that Goku has gotten, mainly because of the sheer scope of this rogue Kaioshin's depravity to kill so many innocents while doing so in the name of justice. At least Freeza was quite honest about how he enjoyed the slaughter and didn't give any pretens...

Jiren is absolutely a big deal, because he reached a realm few mortals ever have, that of a God of Destruction. And he did it through discipline, training, and technique. He's not just a fighter with strength that far outstrips the normal levels that Goku and Vegeta use, but he's ALSO a fighter who ...

I definitely still hold to the idea that, even if every subsequent antagonist has been technically stronger, it's not by any real significant amount. In raw power in my personal opinion, the power of Jiren, Broly, Moro, Granolah, Gas, and Cell Max are all relative to each other; differences lie in h...

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:14 pm Or maybe it was his magic. That’s Moro’s main thing, and the most obvious alternative. Why is nobody considering that?

Dabura is a great example. His raw power was compared to Cell, but his magical abilities elevated his position in Goku's mind despite his power level still being comparable.

I think plenty of characters have gotten to Beerus's level of raw power or surpassed it since the Tournament of Power and onwards, but that he has abilities and martial arts skills that still put him on a different level.

Freeza here really showing how much being the centre of everything was his whole identity, and his insecurity dealing with that no longer being backed up by anything when everybody is on the same playing field.

On a general note, how do folks feel about the new way the series approaches power scaling? In the sense that we have like 10 different characters around the same battle power, with a legitimate claim to being the strongest for all of them. Whereas in the original series for better or for worse the...

I think the simple answer is that there haven't been any major differences in overall power between these past few antagonists. So Jiren and Broly are still very much competitive power-wise with later manga antagonists because they were already stronger than Gods of Destruction. Maybe they'd be com...

I think the simple answer is that there haven't been any major differences in overall power between these past few antagonists.

So Jiren and Broly are still very much competitive power-wise with later manga antagonists because they were already stronger than Gods of Destruction.

I think Akira Toriyama's general mindset is a bit more generalized, having the fighters with power on par with a God of Destruction being all relative to one another. That means Jiren, Broly, Gogeta, and Ultra Instinct Goku all being relative to each other, with each one having distinct things that ...

All of this talk about Cell max and Broly is interesting, as Broly himself was a raging monster who had no real rational thought behind his rampaging power. And seeing as how Broly hasn't learned to fully control his power yet, the comparison might well suggest that Broly is so fearsome in raw power...

According to Toriyama, the strength of mind plays a significant role in battle power and Cell Max's mind was incomplete. Logically, we can infer that Cell Max was not as powerful as he should be. Yeah, that's the clearest example of shouki (mind/mindset, etc). Cell Max was not on the right mindset,...

I think it's more so a case of compatibility. For example, Gogeta wasn't at the level of Ultra Instinct or even SSB Kaioken/Evolved in his base form. It could be that the compatibility of Goku and Vegeta somewhat came down to what kind of forms both were able to utilize and were compatible with each...

It's definitely played up as having the most potential for growth given the levels to it that Goku is trying to train towards, with him being on the bottom rung compared to the skyscraper heights that the Angels can utilize. Only Ultra Ego seems to match it in potential growth, and it too isn't a fo...