Kanzenshuu

He was clowned by base Goku at the ToP though. I wouldn't put them close. She isn't stronger than base Goku. Base Goku > Base Gohan [ToP] ~ Piccolo > 18. We don't know how 18 is compared to SS3 Gotenks though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQu7wRmMQX0 18 lifted an opponent that Base Goku couldn't...

Well he seemed like he was very close to Base Goku. Not quite at his level but close enough that he should be above Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks as well. Which would put him far above the likes of Basil and Lavender. Not sure if that's the intention though. In the manga he was weaker than Piccolo and Fro...

How on earth do you guys explain Android 18 >> Base Goku and Base Goku >>>>> SS3 Gotenks without the two base and retcon theories? The manga DID confirm the two base theory as canon in a sense, since in the anime Goku was alleged to have SBG instead of SSG. It got retconned to SSG because of the man...

The one that really pushed a lot of people onto this "retconned" or "two base" theory more but I suppose at least since then we know the latter isn't true. According to the retcon theory, the two base theory was true up until the Tournament of Power, at which point it was retcon...

Broly's not above Jiren. Jiren was cleanly above Beerus even in his full power form while Broly at his best is only "possibly" stronger than Beerus.

First, we would have to consider Vegettto / Gogeta> MUI, and we have no statement to compare the power of the two. It's likely that MUI is much stronger than fusion, given that Vegito (in the anime) was stronger than, but not that much stronger than, Merged Zamasu, who Beerus thought he could easil...

It's pretty clear that Jiren is on another level from Broly. We know that Full Power Jiren is on a different level from the Hakaishin, and Broly is only possibly stronger than Beerus. And Limit Breaker Jiren is far more powerful than even that. Keep in mind Jiren forced Goku to use Ultra Instinct, b...

Soooooooo we've seen characters lose a huge chunk of their stamina when they're beaten up badly throughout the entire series and you're using this as an excuse of bad writing? Okay. It was bad writing back then and it is now. Your argument is flawed. Yeah you're just complaining for the sake of com...

How the hell is that bad writing? Jiren is injured and far from full power now lol. You're just looking for excuses to whine. Except that's just your headcanon, this episode do not imply that Jiren have lost power, just that Goku was about to defeat him. With all the feats presented by Jiren in thi...

How is that writing atrocious? Having Goku to lost his trump card, while Freeza and #17 (how the hell he survived?) step into the battle thinking they could stand a chance against a fully powered titan like Jiren is stupid as fuck. They expect us to buy that the power of friendship of these worms w...

I'd make it so that Jiren's wife and children were killed by the evil doer instead. I'd also give him his personality from the manga; he's overcompensating for that loss by being overly strong and saving as many lives as possible.

Apart from the fact it's not an SSJ form, I agree.

What are you guys even complaining about? We know SSB Goku massively holds back. He did against Krillin! Use common sense guys.

Obviously, Base Copy Vegeta tanking SS3 Gotenks's hits has nothing to do with skill. Base Vegeta just has waaay more raw power than SS3 Gotenks.

We don't see Base Goku tank Caulifla's attacks in this episode.

Whis also confirms that Goku only has 5 transformations. This along with Shin getting knocked out puts the final nail in the coffin for SbG. Whis also says that some of the GoD shouldn't be standing after the roar. Um, seriously? This is a really horrific argument. We've already known that in the m...

So are you guys going to finally accept the two base theory after all this evidence in the past few eps?

They can't coexist because I just explained why: Saiyan Beyond God (seriously, fuck Heroes) is SSGod power in Base.

There's no point in debating you because for some reason, you refuse to understand that SBG = partial SSG power which also enables transformation to SSB.

Despite the fact Saiyan Beyond God (fuck Heroes with a molten iron rod in the throat for making this POS) is basically Base = SSGod. The pamphlet info used a few months back by people even cited that Goku & Vegeta in F have Gods power in Base and when they use SS, it turns them into Blue. Given...

Yes, the two base theory where one Base hinges on you having SSGod power in Base when SSGod is a separate form. It's very simple to understand if you can think. SBG = partial SSG power. SSG = full SSG power. Easy peasy. Despite the fact Saiyan Beyond God (fuck Heroes with a molten iron rod in the t...

So Base Goku = Final Form Frieza >>> Final Form Frost > Base Vegeta = Base Cabba = Base Goku Obviously, two base theory. You guys need to stop denying it for no reason. Yes, the two base theory where one Base hinges on you having SSGod power in Base when SSGod is a separate form. It's very simple t...