Kanzenshuu

Yup, no offense intended to anyone, but I definitely embarrassed myself publicly when I read that zinger on my phone and guffawed like a huge dork. “My Battle Power Is On Beerus’s Tax Return” should be the title of a book on DB fan culture.

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere but I think its something worth mentioning. In chapter one of the Dragon Ball Super Manga we see Goku doing some Image training against past foes as a Super Saiyan. He easily defeats both Frieza and Cell and when he gets to Kid Buu we see him charge at him as ...

Guess it depends on how you read “galaxies” in the context of the Kaio, anime vs. manga vs. guidebooks, etc: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/gods-and-cosmos/galaxies/ I’m guessing they didn’t want to go with the end-all-be-all universe-level threat, and galaxy-level threat was just the next closest thing...

I personally don’t see Moro-73 as being much different than FP Moro, aside from the extra abilities, since he’s basically just Old Moro + FP Moro. Old Moro was at worst SSJ-level and at best SSG-Level, so even allowing the latter, the increase would hardly be worth mentioning. At minimum, FP Moro is...

Thanks Ponta! That distinction helps a little - if I’m understanding correctly, putting everything together, since punches and kicks count as copied moves as well, 7-3 has the same “attack power” and movesets as the person he copies, but it’s not a perfect copy of the person’s “battle power” since t...

I’ve always been confused about this - each reread I seem to walk away with a different interpretation. This last go-around I noticed that after 7-3 copies Gohan and Piccolo in Ch. 56, Shimorekka says, “Any training you may have done? Totally worthless now. Since 7-3 copies the way you are right now...

I could see it being that way (I would even go so far as to say I prefer it to be that way). I like the idea of “weight classes” because it accommodates the idea that UI can be a mechanism for jumping between weight classes as Goku goes further into it by sharpening attacks and reaction time, as opp...

Extremely well put - revisiting the manga, I’ve wondered about this, but could not quite articulate it this way. It’s one of those concepts that I suspect has been smuggled in to break the mold, but if history is any teacher (especially where the TOP is concerned) I suspect it will ultimately boil d...

Personally, this is how I have it too. I had UI as 10x SSB, and with Saganbo maxing out at 6x SSB (presuming he is is brought to SSB-level with the first power-up from Moro on Earth, and the remaining power-ups are equivalent), it makes sense for even the Suppressed UI to be around this level.

Usually that is the case, but there are exceptions to the rule. Generally an opponent that is especially durable is also especially powerful compared to the protagonist (ruling out those with certain physical attributes like Botamo, Magetta, and Majin Boo) but there are exceptions - recently Goku co...

“Close” is just a relative term, though — Gogeta consistently got behind Broly, deflected his attacks, consistently exploited openings, and in general treated Broly like a punching bag for a bit. That might seem like it necessitates a huge gap, but Vegeta accomplished all of the same things against ...

Right, I’m thinking it’s almost certainly less than a 25% gap personally. I’d probably have a gap similar to the one between Vegeta and Zarbon during their first battle. On a log scale where +1 = x10 and where +0.1 = x1.25, I’d have it roughly like this: Beerus: 10 SSB Fusion: 10.1 SSJFP Broly: 10.0...

That’s a good point - I’ve thought about that too in the last few years. Speaking of, (and I should have clarified this in my earlier post) but I always interpreted Goku’s assessment at the end of “Broly” as something along the lines of, “As Gogeta, I think I’m stronger than Beerus, and you put up a...

I think he’s rooting that in the assumption that Goku got a good bit stronger in between battles, so all things being equal between a hypothetical Vegetto and Gogeta, the Gogeta that fought Broly would have to be stronger than the Vegetto that fought Zamasu. Ergo, if Beerus is still comparable to bo...

I get around that by piggybacking the LOG scale onto Toriyama’s “God Scale” from BOG, i.e. 10 is 10x 9, 9 is 10x 8, etc. It just about works with more conservative multipliers. SSG is still a 6, SSB is somewhere between a 7 and 8, Beerus is still a 10. That way, SSB Fusion, UI, Broly, Jiren, etc are...

Good points - Vegeta seems to do worse against Moro, but Moro was approaching his battle with Goku conservatively for much of the duration, so perhaps we shouldn’t judge Goku and Vegeta purely by their performances in battle, i.e. Vegeta can do worse against Moro initially and still be above UI Sign...

Currently my position is to split the difference and appraise the two as roughly analogous to each other in terms of power, but with Goku’s UI Sign advantages making him effectively untouchable in a short clash. Basically a rehash of the “battle of attrition” from the TOP. Goku wins if he can finish...

I wonder about this more and more as I revisit these chapters. The escalation in the manga has been fairly conservative (in the manga), focusing more on utilizing the full power of SSJB for the majority of its running time. But in these recent chapters we get the rare explicit “level up” statements ...

Just chiming in real quick because I haven’t seen this mentioned yet in the discussion - regarding statements of Moro’s power relative to Beerus, we do get this in Ch. 59 from the man himself as he powers up against UI Sign Goku: https://i.postimg.cc/9QnnF8nQ/B83-A3-C71-246-F-4-CEF-B558-FDEDACC853-E...

Perhaps in that respect it’s a bit like SSG being implied to be only 10x or so SSJ during the battle with Broly, instead of retaining the massive multiplier it should have had initially? Wait, what? Please elaborate. Sorry, referring to the bit where Broly goes from overpowering SSJ Vegeta to overp...