Kanzenshuu

Like the OP stated, it seems to be mostly fringe groups like the Kanzenshuu forums and others that really consider this latest arc to be dirt and not worth the DB name. The main strength of this arc is that it has EVERYTHING. Like, literally EVERYTHING. A super strong antagonist. Goku reaching new h...

Didn't Kale have Greenish hair as an ordinary Super Saiyan anyway though? It was her controlled LSSJ form, mate. Not quite. When she initially calmed down as the two female Saiyans were being attacked by Universe 11's Pride Troopers, she attained a SS form that's buffer than her normal form (though...

Well, it was nice while it lasted. I'll try to alleviate that, to the best of my abilities. ==== This arc is one of the strongest thus far out of the current series in my opinion. Scenarios, themes, and ideas that are either entirely new or forgone in the days of DBZ are now at the forefront, charac...

In Future Trunks Saga, Vegeta clearly outplayed Goku after training on RoSaT. I disagree. Goku's kamehameha did more damage than Vegeta and Trunk's combined galic gun on Zamasu. And I'm pretty sure Black said Vegeta's boost was from rage or something. Goku did the same thing when Black told him he ...

I think she either goes ss2 or ss3 in episode 116 but apparently goku just avoids all her attacks and hits her point blank with a kamehameha The Ultra Instinct is very much a defiance of traditional powerups in the franchise, focusing on speed, precision, and avoidance of strikes. In fact, my headc...

My headcanon on the matter is based on throwing bits of the anime into the mix. Basically, it's assumed that Goku and Vegeta figured out how to turn SSB in Whis's staff dimension. Of course, we never see them actually transform for the first time, so we're left speculating on how things went down. M...

Well Goku did say something about Super Saiyan Blue having proper Ki control when he first turned Super Saiyan. It was obviously something he couldn't do with his other forms so there was a difference. We saw when Goku fought Arale and he was Super Saiyan Blue that he fired one Kamehameha and then ...

So does Goku's godly base explain how he managed fight on par with 4th Form Frieza, who previously one shotted Gohan. Goku doesn't have a 'godly base' since his base form never had a god ki. His base form was just much, much stronger than Gohan's. So why didn't Goku use normal SSJ forms at all duri...

If Beerus and other characters can suppress their power to a huge degree I don't see why Goku can't, regardless of the form used. I really can't believe that the idea of character regulating their strength to their specific demands has become such an issue in the fandom. Even though we've seen so m...

Although the actual song and basic gist should stay the same for awhile, at least for the current arc's run, I do think that they should update some of the visuals. Buu got replaced with Freeza, so maybe Goku's base form fights with Jiren could be replaced with the Ultra Instinct version, and his po...

A good portion of the last few pages certainly suggest otherwise. It might be that seeing it makes this stuff jump out at me more, and it's just my perception playing tricks on me, but my point still stands that it seems to be much more prevalent than it ought to be in this specific thread. When th...

I haven't put much thought into that "in-between" solution - making base Goku and Vegeta stronger than SSj3 Gotenks, but not much stronger beyond that. Sounds like it could work, but there are some things that bother me with that, particularly the issue of Frost needing to be weaker than ...

So where does everyone put kefla in comparison to vegito Is base kefla > ssjg then what FT ARC vegito Spoilers impiled UI goku is dodging all of her attacks with ease How strong you guys thing kefla compares to him Although the line directly comparing Vegito to Beerus was from the manga, my thought...

So Kafla is too strong for even SSJBkkx20 and Goku needs UI? Wow, Toei. Just...wow The math works out fine, really. With Kefla's base form being more than a match for SSG Goku, a mere 50 times boost from SS would be more than enough to trounce even SSB/KKx20, assuming SSB is minimally twice as stro...

He just did that so he would take 0 damage. Frieza was about to attack ssj2 Caulifla and controlled berserk Kale at the same time in his final form. Not saying saiyan beyond god exists, but that example isn't really the best. If his base was on par with SBG, he wouldn't have needed to transform to ...

Even with SSB/KKx20, Goku is barely able to stalemate Jiren's GLARE, and he was explicitly stated to not be full power. Even if you were to use the bare minimum precedent, that'd make Jiren 400 times stronger than SSB/KKx20 Goku, minimum 8000 times stronger than SSB-level fighters. And that's the L...

Ok so help me to understand this? Vegeta goes SSRage and Beerus says he had to use about 10% of his power and implies that it is beyond SSJ3. Fast forward and Goku going SSBxKKx20 may not be stronger than Beerus. And we are arguing Beerus overshot his power by 10000% and then misquoted his own powe...

How strong are Caulifa, Kale and Cabba in their base forms? How do they compare to Z Namek Frieza? And what of their SSJ forms? How strong they in relation to Cell and Buu saga characters? Each one of them solo Z in their base form with (maybe) the excepting of SS Vegetto. Damn. Are they far off Ve...

How strong are Caulifa, Kale and Cabba in their base forms? How do they compare to Z Namek Frieza? And what of their SSJ forms? You'll never get concrete answers or any semblance of a consensus. You ask me, I'd say they're equal to the base Saiyans of Universe 7 (besides Goten and Trunks, the lazy ...

Trying to reconcile potara boost with SSJG in reference to Vegetto from Z seems like a headache. The guidebook mentions Vegetto to be at least above SSJ3, but perhaps that's in reference to SSJ Vegetto and not base Vegetto as Vegetto turns SSJ to combat Gohan Buu in the manga, even in the anime bas...