Kanzenshuu

Well looks like that's no longer a case.

Borrowing a page from Toriyama with the retcons, there!

Also, I feel like Frog-Ginyu being there could've prevented Recoome from burning everything down.

Supposed to take place in prime DBZA, though some of the movies definitely seem to have taken place.

There's also the fact that Ultimate Gohan is firmly slightly superior to the Gammas, themselves noted to be the strongest Androids ever. Given the series' penchant for escalation, it'd make sense they were stronger than 17, himself not far off of Super Saiyan Blue in both mediums. As well, knowing t...

The story doesn't even know if Goku or Vegeta could of beaten Cell Max. Orange Piccolo lost [I don't remember if Orange Piccolo was at full power?] to the behemoth. Toriyama does indeed say [According to Herms translation] that Piccolo does indeed have "battle power" on par with Goku and ...

To be fair, Gohan being able to use the Ultimate state without any troubles points to this anime/manga development having stuck post-RoF. He may have lost a bit of his edge like in RoF, but unlike then he clearly still kept up his training to a degree and only needed some motivation to bring back hi...

I imagine that, during the production of the SH movie, Toriyama might have been going under the assumption that Cell Max, Broly, and Jiren all occupy a similar range as Gods of Destruction who are all above Goku and Vegeta alone.

There's also the fact that Gamma 1 easily handles Super Saiyan Gohan without problems. And if you consider Gohan's forms equivalent to Goku and Vegeta's in terms of the same kinds of forms, and the fact that the previous film established that the next steps up from SS were SSG and SSB, you can get a...

Something I've seen a lot of folks in other places (not around here, mostly) bring up is the idea that, because Piccolo can't sense Gamma 1 and 2's artificial Ki, he somehow can't get an accurate gauge of their power. This, I feel, is a fairly flawed angle to approach this debate from. He's a master...

In a certain sense, yeah. About as close as you can get without actually using the technique itself. In essence, Jiren could fight almost any combatant of that level as well as they could in terms of pure fighting capability. Which does make his focus on simply punching the sh*t outta people all the...

The big thing with Krillin is that Goku was too late to save him the last time he died; he stumbled on his dead body after the fact. Even then, he flew into an absolute rage as a kid. Here, it's even worse. Freeza kills him right in front of his eyes quite painfully, with the explicit intention of e...

Yeah, I've also been privy to the idea of Vegeta underselling how much of a difference in raw strength there was myself.

Wasn't it also said by someone on the production staff that the colour change during Goku's SSB power-up sequence in the Broly movie was just as a neat nod to Ultra Instinct and not really anything of note?

So, it's basically like Jiren has access to a power up in the way that Goku might boost himself with the Kaio-ken, except that the Kaio-ken is an indirect method of improving strength as it is a technique, while Jiren simply draws his power out directly by having learned to concentrate & releas...

Like I said in the post above, I figure that Toriyama puts Jiren and Broly around the same level that he initially intended, with Super Saiyan Broly being like a SSB multiplied by Super Saiyan and Jiren being similarly as strong. Whereas Broly gained an additional transformation to increase his raw ...

So I had a thought about Jiren's power and the seeming retcon of it in Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero . So for those who aren't aware, Vegeta mentions in the film how Jiren was overwhelmingly strong, then goes on to say that his power wasn't all that different from him and Goku's. He attributes this ...

Couldn't UI Goku be actually enough to stop Broly? I know the whole thing about not only needing a fusion, it's SSJ form but also Blue to stop was because Broly kept increasing his power non-stop... But I still feel to this day that was pretty much overkill. I imagine it's a case where only Broly's...

What sells it for me is how the manga adapts the movie 1:1 without even bothering to patch up potential inconsistencies, so I imagine the Gammas are meant to be SSJB levels just because that’s how it is in the movie. I’m not sure whether that's Broly Saga SSJB like the movie (which is more realisti...

Honestly, I do wonder how Toriyama views SSB. Golden Freeza getting stronger in both mediums with SSB having caught up in the interim is present, but I'm not sure if that's Toriyama or simply Toei and Toyotaro collaborating on that one. As well, he doesn't seem to factor in any particular gains beyo...

When did Gohan display ssjb level power? He had a match against Goku in the anime in which he was equally matched with Super Saiyan Blue. In the manga, he was equally matched with Kefla, who was Super Saiyan Blue level in power. As well, he re-attained his Ultimate state in a slight bit of rage at ...

I imagine the general intent is that Gamma 1 and 2 are stand-ins for Goku and Vegeta in a sense, both in personality and in power. Specifically, stand-ins for the general SSB range that Goku and Vegeta have as their standard shared highest level of power from the Tournament of Power all the way to S...