Kanzenshuu

If they are equal to Freeza individually and an explicitly rusty base Goten and Trunks are equal to them, forcing them to fuse, that contradicts the BOG statement. They are equal to Freeza merged, not individually. In the manga version Gotenks never goes ss1 and Goku seems to go ss2, and only becau...

Base Goku can't have closed the gap much if at all and still be weaker than Freeza in base. Why not? Because gotenks pre was that much stronger than goku (in the same form) and freeza in the boo arc that goku can't have surpassed gotenks without also surpassing freeza in bog. Chouzenshuu 4 implies ...

TobyS wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 4:47 pm Base Goku can't have closed the gap much if at all and still be weaker than Freeza in base.

Why not?

They are not directly compared, so it’s difficult to tell, but I think it would be doable because Goku had 4 years to catch up to Gotenks and Gohan’s level. Granted everyone was at least as strong as they were in Majin Boo arc, but even in his ultimate form Gohan didn’t leave much impression on Beer...

The Broly panel being included alongside Grand Priest confused the living hell out of people, including @SupaChronicles. It was Uchida who name dropped Broly and Toyotaro ignores all those names in his rankings, citing Goku, Vegeta and Granolah as the 3 strongest in the universe. Uchida likely antec...

Hmm. I'll have to rewatch this whole segment. But what about the sparring later? Didn't Piccolo Vs Gohan suggest they were on par with each other later? Piccolo was training Gohan from the basics , so he wasn’t being serious about it. Gohan gets it when Goku picks up Piccolo as the 5th fighter on h...

PowerLevelGuy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2024 9:22 pm So you think the only reason Gohan did well against a stronger Tagoma is because he caught him off guard and that Base Gohan doesn't actually outperform Piccolo?

Tagoma took no damage from Gohan’s ki blast.

To paraphrase Vegeta, rankings are good and all, but they only reflect a moment in time. They are constantly subject to change. And to be fair, while the word “tough” can be used interchangeably with “strong”, in the light of recent data, we could infer Goku meant “difficult”. After all, Fusion did ...

Re-reading the chapter and Vegeta states explicitly that Broly can't access his full power because he's scared of snapping. Vegeta also says "to battle without losing yourself is an achievement, but you seem unable to unleash your true might" seems pretty explicit that Broly can't access ...

The translation goes like this: "The two entered the Room of Spirit and Time, and hurriedly trained as Gotenks. As a result, Gotenks leveled up so much that his strength surpassed Vegeta and the others." Pretty sure Goku is not name-dropped in that text, though this is not to say Gotenks h...

You're still not understanding my comment. Broly from Broly Arc is definitely weaker than Broly from SH Arc. That's not being argued. Broly from the spar with Goku was still having problems controlling his power and rage, and when he fights Vegeta has has gotten better at doing so. He did not actua...

There is no evidence in the anime that Base RoF Gohan is superior to Piccolo. Both were shown to be inferior to (Pre-Ginyu) Tagoma, who was clowned by Super Saiyan Gotenks. Gohan only managed something against (Ginyu) Tagoma when he turned into Super Saiyan.

More like Broly was exempted from the wish because he can’t bring forth his full power willingly, as it’s still inaccessible by his current self, much like Gohan’s beast power back then. So, the Dragon Balls probably didn’t consider them full-fledged warriors worth of using as measure stick. Gohan m...

:eh: I’m not even talking about Broly getting stronger than he ever was. I’m just saying that Broly is getting stronger during the course of this battle, as he can match SS Vegeta without losing his cool. This is several levels from where he was in chapter #93, when he barely matched Base Goku. Base...

I don’t think these numbers in particular are supposed to purely represent their battle power. They seem to be taking into account the overall fighting ability of the characters, including their special skills. That’s why you have 100 points of difference between characters that have several thousan...

The dynamic between Broly and Vegeta shows exactly that Broly is getting stronger during their fight. Broly started below Base Vegeta and ended equal to SS Vegeta. That goes to show that Vegeta got stronger as well during this fight. In the movie, Base Broly powered-up to a level that Vegeta needed ...

What is interesting about this chapter is that it looks like this will be the beginning of Broly’s arc. We get to see how Broly is evolving through the lens of his masters. And Gohan may be an important piece on his journey to find the balance he needs to access his full potential. There is a long t...

It's speculative because the suggestion of them using it in a pitch is speculative... No, I mean it's speculative because, despite what Vegeta said, it doesn't mean he really has outstriped 18 and Piccolo in his base form. This is usually people projecting their own preconceived ideas into what a c...

At the end of day, this discussion is entirely speculative. I’m just presenting possible solutions that Saiyans might figure out during a moment of need, I’m not suggesting they should think exactly as I said to prove my point, nor did I suggest every Saiyan would be able to concoct that move. It’s ...

Yes, but if it's something they think about amidst the battle, then it wouldn't be relevant to the assessment they made then, of SSJ not being necessary and not damaging their odds when Gohan wants to win and he'a also aware of Vegeta's goals. Fair enough. However, while one may interpret the initi...