Daizenshuu EX DB wiki...again

[DNA]

But they are the same person, same parents. They are the same character, just from different timelines. And it just snow balls from there, should we also separate Gohan? And Bulma? And then we end up having a page for future fucking Babidi like Dragon Ball Wiki. Yeah I definitely keep my vote for same page.

[Insertclevername]

The way I view it is that both Trunks' have the same basic personality but one is skewed in a more timid and serious light. As for kid Trunks, he is 8 after all, so it really isn't fair to compare him to his 17 year old self, regardless of the upbringing. For all we know, Mirai Trunks could have been the same cocky little brat at that age, but grew out of it due to his environment. In the end, End of Z and GT Trunks acts like Mirai Trunks anyway, just more relaxed.

Also, having them both in one, organized section is more convenient, especially to new comers, who may not initially be aware of the timeline difference. As DNA put it, if we do it to one, then we have to make future versions of every character. It would be a mess. I see where your coming from, but the single page route can definitely be done.

[Saiga]

No, we don't. Future Trunks is a major character unlike Future Bulma or Future Gohan, who wouldn't need their own pages.

[Bussani]

I can sort of see Trunks being the one exception where we could have a different page for the two different versions. Heck, even Daizenshuu 2 separates them into two distinct entries, while simultaneously only including Future Gohan as part of the Gohan entry. Buuut then Daizenshuu 7 goes ahead and puts both Trunkses under one entry in its character dictionary, so...yeah...

Tough call.

[Makaioshin]

But they are the same person, same parents. They are the same character, just from different timelines. And it just snow balls from there, should we also separate Gohan? And Bulma? And then we end up having a page for future fucking Babidi like Dragon Ball Wiki. Yeah I definitely keep my vote for same page.

They are the same person from different timelines but they aren't the same character. Future Trunks is a major character with enough information to warrant a page unlike the Cell that Future Trunks killed or the Yamucha that was killed by the androids. If I had a vote I would vote for separate articles for Trunks and maybe Gohan. You also mentioned Time Patrol Trunks but I don't think he would be mentioned in anything but a Dragon Ball Online article due to the lack of a Korean-English or Mandarin-English translator.

[DNA]

No, we don't. Future Trunks is a major character unlike Future Bulma or Future Gohan, who wouldn't need their own pages.

"Future" Gohan is as major a character as Bardock or Tapion. He was an important character in a major feature. If "future" Trunks had a page, why wouldn't Gohan? Like I said, it snowballs from there.

You also mentioned Time Patrol Trunks but I don't think he would be mentioned in anything but a Dragon Ball Online article due to the lack of a Korean-English or Mandarin-English translator.

Yes, for now, but eventually we will have more information on him, will he get his own page?

It's only logical and more organized to keep all of them in the same page. Doesn't harm anyone and it keeps the Wiki clutter free. Organization and content over quantity of pages, exactly the opposite of the current Dragon Ball Wiki.

[LiamKav]

The difference is that Future Yamcha/Kuririn etc are exactly the same as regular Yamcha/Kuririn etc, except that they get killed early. Everything about their history up to that point is the same. Trunks though is different from before he even turns 1. The baby Trunks that Bulma carries around with her during the Artificial Humans arc has a completely different life that the grown-up Trunks walking around and talking to her.

Basically, the "future" entries for the other characters would read:

Future Kuririn: Same as regular Kuririn, but killed by #17 and #18 in Age whatever.

Whereas Future Trunks's page entry would be completely different from normal timeline Trunks's entry in every way apart from wo his parents were and when he was born.

[Saiga]

No, we don't. Future Trunks is a major character unlike Future Bulma or Future Gohan, who wouldn't need their own pages.

"Future" Gohan is as major a character as Bardock or Tapion. He was an important character in a major feature. If "future" Trunks had a page, why wouldn't Gohan? Like I said, it snowballs from there.

Future Gohan only appears in one chapter and one special (and some anime flashbacks), so he isn't as major as Trunks. Bardock and Tapion aren't counterparts of another major character, so they're not going to be part of another character's page.

Although Future Gohan could go either way for me.

There's no need to let it snowball. It's quite easy to say "Future Trunks is important enough to have his own page" and leave it at that. Just because one future counterpart gets their own page doesn't mean they all will. That's a slippery slope fallacy.

[desirecampbell]

Again with arguments over what should have its own page.

The criteria should be the same as regular Wikipedia, which is incredibly simple: "is there enough information to warrant a separate page?"

In theory, a Wiki should start as a single page which explains everything. If any specific section/topic becomes too long to include on that page, it should be moved to its own page.

For example, we'll have one page to start out with: "Dragon Ball". On this page we'll list all the manga chapters. But that section will get so long that we'll want to pull it out of the "Dragon Ball" page and move it to its own "Manga Chapters" page. But as we add information to "Manga Chapters" it'll start to get pretty long too, so we'll split off the specific chapter summaries/etc. into their own pages as well.

This is the pattern. When any section on any page causes the page to be too long, split that section off to its own page; and continue creating new pages until doing so would create a page that too short.

Another example: The first page "Dragon Ball" will also talk about merchandise; this section will likely be long enough for its own page. That page will likely have separate pages for each category of home-media release ("Manga Releases", "Anime Home Media releases"), but the section for pencil holders will likely not be long enough to warrant its own page.


The idea is to keep every page significant and easily digestible. Too short and it's clearly not a worthwhile topic in its own right; too long and getting information from it becomes tedious/difficult.



In regards to this specific questions of "one page for all Trunks, or separate pages for each Trunks". Start with one Trunks page, and include a section regarding the different versions of Trunks due to time travel. There are more than two Trunkses. Depending on how time travel works (that's a whole other topic), there are at least three (Trunks, Future Trunks, and the Trunks that is killed by Cell in the future), and as many as eleven timelines (and possibly more), each with its own Trunks. Clearly not all of them will have enough information for his own page, but perhaps the Future Trunks we see through the series will have enough information specific to him to warrant his own page.

My point is: there's no point in debating it now. Until we are actually writing the wiki, decisions like that can't be made.


Also, Bulma's not a major character?!

[Saiga]

Also, Bulma's not a major character?!

I wasn't saying that at all. I was talking about Future Bulma.

[DNA]

*big explanation*

Okay that makes sense, never really thought about how a Wiki should work.

[LiamKav]

Hey, there are at least three versions of G1 Galvatron floating around, and they lead to similar arguments.

[Nex Carnifex]

When do you think you'll be done with other stuff and release the wiki? Before or after the release of Halo 4?

[VegettoEX]

When do you think you'll be done with other stuff and release the wiki? Before or after the release of Halo 4?

"Other stuff" amounts to years of work.

I've been doing this since 1998. "Years" means nothing to me these days.

[DNA]

I think people forget that you guys have lives outside of the website and fandom in general.

[Ketchup_Revenge]

If everyone chips in to the Wiki, I don't see the problem with starting a whole new one. I was put in charge of one when "another community" was still up, but it's dead now. There's no visitors so I kinda edit it for my own amusement.

[Maphisto86]

I would definitely help out as much as I am able but it would take our entire community to make and maintain such a wiki in short or medium term timescale. By that I mean a complete encyclopedia at least on the basics. There are countless things that could be made into articles but fulfilling the enterprise would be part of the allure. We really should make a better alternative to the de-facto "Dragonball wiki" (unless they want to turn it over to us for an overhaul ).

[VegettoEX]

unless they want to turn it over to us for an overhaul

We don't want it.

[JulieYBM]

Hopefully this is an innocent enough question, but what role exactly will the Wiki play when the website already covers so much? What do you guys (Mike and everyone) hope will come of it?

[VegettoEX]

We've talked a little bit about it internally over the last... well, couple years actually... and then we go back to forgetting about it and don't talk about it at all. So I actually don't know where the other three dudes completely stand 100% on it at this exact moment in time.

What *I* somewhat envision it as, however, is something like a community-driven back-end of information that may expand upon some of the information we have up on the main site (such as, and this is just a random thought, what extras are on an individual DVD any any extra notes to add about it that don't make sense for the main listing in our standard "Home Video Guide"). It would contain expanded information that we wouldn't necessarily add to the main site ourselves or simply don't have the capacity to do on our own with the four of us (like a full-fledged "Character Guide" kind of thing).

Bigger stuff like that. It may even duplicate things on the site, but that's OK, too -- part of what I'd like to have is something like a "This Page Verified By Kanzenshuu Staff" banner at the top, which means that as of its most recent edit, we've totally vetted the information on the page above and beyond what the community contributors had done, giving it a little bit of extra authority. Interlink with pages on the full site.

Of course, my worry is that people will think Kanzenshuu is (just) a wiki, just like people currently think Kanzenshuu is a forum, just like people currently think Kanzenshuu is a podcast. I figure the more we add as extensions of the site, the less that will be a problem...? ^^;;

But yeah. Not the top priority. But still A priority.