Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

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Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by DragonBoxZTheMovies » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:47 am

So recently I've been reading a fair number of Tweets from members on Kanzenshuu regarding how discussions on the forum don't seem to have the same quality that they use to. So I thought it was important to bring this to everyone's attention and maybe people can put forth suggestions on how we can bring the level of discussion back to its best and beyond. :)

Please note, this isn't meant to be a personal attack towards other members, I just wanna know what members can do for other members to improve each others' experience on the forum. Like, what do you have problems with? Or what do you want to see more or less of in discussions?

By the way, I hope I'm not offending any of the mods either or seem like I'm mini-modding. I've just noticed a lot of people being slight unhappy with the current state of the forum lately, and I thought if I start this thread people might bring these issues to the attention of other members and we can work on making, what is already a great forum, even better. :wink:

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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by hleV » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:13 am

Regarding the In-Universe Discussion, it's all about "What if someone didn't do something" or "Your thoughts/opinion on something" now. No topics about something that would need to be analized to come to some sort of conclusions. Not even talking about some threads that come from fresh 14-year-old members.
I don't know how (if at all) it makes the forum go downhill, as certainly there are people interested in that kind of stuff, but I'm not one of them.

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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Big Momma » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:29 pm

I feel like, in recent years, a lot more topic derailing have happened due to members switching to focus to other members' and their opinions/the way they express them. I'm guilty of it too, of course. But I don't remember things like this happening "back in the day".

Besides that, I don't really see any decrease in discussion quality.
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:57 pm

I personally think that, at least in the in-universe and fan creations forums, a lot of people (myself included, at times) need to take a big step back and chill out when there are disagreements. At the end of the day, this is a website about a comic book and a TV show. It's more than possible to be passionate about something you enjoy without being an asshole about it.
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Ajay » Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:44 pm

I had some major issues with a few members who were guilty of posting threads that revolved around nothing but aimless hypotheticals that can't be argued and rely purely on imagination. There's zero discussion points there other than 'my made up thought process is better than yours'. It just turns into a dull circlejerk about nothing.

Fortunately, the major offenders were either banned or simply stopped posting as much. As such, Kanzenshuu has been a very good place lately.

You'll see the level of intelligent discussion fluctuate as more casual fans revisit the franchise for the sake of Battle of Gods but that will subside in time.
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Rocketman » Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:31 pm

Ban power levels for a month and watch the quality rise.

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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by caejones » Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:22 pm

I've been not paying so much attention to this room, saw that Rocketman had the last post, got curious, saw this thread title, which was almost word for word what went through my head the last couple times I dropped in, eventually read to Rocketman's post and had an urge to reach for the like/thumbs up/up vote button.

I actually did a shallow count last time I was on to see how many threads in the in universe discussion forum were strength debate-related. It was less than I expected, and I don't remember if I saved it, but I basically did it on a scale of "clearly strength debate" getting 2 points, "likely to be strenth-debate but not necessarily from title alone" getting 1 point, neutral, unknowable or n/a getting 0, then 1 and 2 negatives on the other end of the scale.
I remember the end result being in favor of strength debates, but just barely.

This only took thread titles into account. It didn't consider length of discussion or the actual content of posts.
I will say, though, that the more interesting I personally find a subject, the less likely the discussion is to last for more than a few posts.
(That, and not being able to keep up with how rapidly the battle of gods thread was growing were the main reasons I vanished after last October. Now I'm so far behind I don't actually know if it's possible for me to watch BoG or not so I can actually wander Kanzenshuu without worrying about tripping on spoilers. Even though someone apparently did research showing that spoilers actually increase one's enjoyment, but whatever.)

Disclaimer: playing with battle powers and junk is totally fun. Watching "could x beat y?" for the 9001st time, or the "DB characters Vs Lightspeed" debate that has remained pretty much the same for the past decade, not so much.

[edit nov 14, 2013]: I did the count again, and the results were way skewed in favor of strength debates. I was kinda horrified as I watched the score tick up past 20, then it finally settled down to a less-but-still-horrifying 7. The part that makes this particularly troublesome is that most of the weight to strength debates was concentrated in the top half of the in-universe discussion; which is to say, those types of threads are the most active right now, from the looks of it. This giant "You kids and your power levels!" nostalgia-rant-discussion seems not to have made a dent in that particular element.
Also, they're the same questions they were last year, and the year before that, except thankfully Buu and Gohan Vs Dabra have apparently been rung dry (and it only took 15 years!).
[/edit]
Last edited by caejones on Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by DragonBalllKaiHD » Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:34 pm

I guess you could say that the forums haven't been the same since some of the members are no longer become a regular, like Dayspring, for example. It was fun back then when I first joined here. There were forum wars, stupid and funny posts, VegettoEX just being Vegetto EX, banning stupid members who wouldn't follow the rules about grammars, playing victims, etcs. Now I see a big difference. The discussions just seem to be a little bit too serious. There's not much posts that could lighten up the threads, which is a little disappointing, but it's understandable. Time changes. Also the members seem to be more knowledgeable about most of the stuff than before, so it's not surprising that we get a lot of threads discussing same things.
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Chuquita » Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:00 pm

It's definitely less fun (it does not lack fun, there's just less of it), and I do feel less motivation to post. There are fewer interesting topics (honestly, once BOG dies down, I'm not sure what'll keep my interest; that's been my db-related driving force since July '12, before that I was slowly falling off. ^^; ). I think a good chunk of it, at least with Kanzenshuu, is due to people leaving. I echo previous posters in this thread about how there's been a larger influx of strength debate topics and non-in-depth topics floating around lately. I have to say, there are people who are no longer around whose opinions (and artworks, and fics) I would love to see BOG-related fan-stuff from. For anyone who knows who they were, can you imagine BOG fanart from Kabu and Announcerguy? *_*

But yeah, there's way too much seriousness around here nowadays, and occasionally uncomfortable levels of people snapping at each other--which makes an on-looker immediately not want to engage in the thread even if the original topic was interesting. Nothing can be done about it, really. Give it another few years and the forums'll look completely different again for better or worse.
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Piccolo Daimaoh » Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:18 am

I find it hard to believe people who discuss power levels are more stubborn, rude etc. in their opinions than people who discuss other things. I also find it amusing that the power levels thread is in the fan-created section, when other hypothetical questions get sorted into their appropriate sub-forums.

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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Scarz » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:30 am

I take full responsibility for the lack of quality in discussions. Particularly in Fan Works section.

Honestly, I didn't realize the decrease in quality on the forum. I mostly "hang out" in the fanworks thread and occasionally peek at the others. Even though I'm active here, I've been so increasingly busy with my own work that I haven't really noticed the new members popping up on the forum. Or even some of the PL topics that were mentioned. Are they really that bad?

I do agree that more interesting and thought provoking topics are seriously needed here once more. I think we all had enough of "What's your favorite this or that" thread. But at the end of the day, the level of quality all depends on the members themselves. If you want a more involving discussion, you're going to have to make some effort and create one.

Maybe we're getting older and less interested in the franchise. Maybe we don't have much to say anymore. Maybe we've already said it all. Or maybe we need a new on-going series. Hey, we need something to complain about.

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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by hleV » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:41 am

Only Scarz's sexy DB can now save Kanzenshuu forum from perishing.

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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by TheGmGoken » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:55 am

Well. I have to say yes and no. I honestly think we're just running out of things to talk about. Which is why people(Including me) people bring up topics that already been made. Such as SSJ or SSJ2 Gohan in Dabura fight. We don't have a answer so we keep debating. Then some people attack other users in a way they makes it looks like they're not attacking them. We do have users who only respond to certain other users due to the fact they want to "attack" them. Who got some topics that are troll topics but once again hide the fact that they're troll topics. I will say that less people are on now. With the serious debates. I have to say that people know to much. It's like before when we was ignorant we had open minded. But now since we know to much we can only accept this and only neglect that. Hell I can't even say how many times people debate on what not to use and what to use out of Daizenshuu. Why should we the fans take the series more serious than the author? I know Toriyama used some information from Daizenshuu but c'mon. I bet you Mr.At would answer half of our In universe questions with "I made it because I came up with it watching Dora".

As someone said. We need a picture of what Toriyama REALLY THOUGHT and what fans think he thinks. Here How I predict it would go.

What are power levels after Freeza Arc
Fans: Well SSJ3 Goku is 72,000,000,000.

Toriyama: Well....let's make Goku 1. Gotenks is 3 because 3 is greater than 1.

Be honest here. Which one you think really happen? Also as rocket man said. BAN power levels. KAMI I hate them. They so stupid. I just use the Goku is 1 and Gotenks is 3 rule. Much more simple.
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by jjgp1112 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:49 pm

Sometime around 2012, I feel like the quality of this place has declined. A lot of the older, more mature users are gone and in their place are younger guys who keep trying to make this place into Reddit-lite. It's also other little things (the grammar rules don't seem to get enforced as heavily as they used to) and the more juvenile nature.

I have no problem with how the Fan-Works section is, however. That's definitely the spot for lighter discussion, and I have no problem with how people like Scarz engage in discussion as it pertains to there. That's pretty much the main part of the forum I frequent now.
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Rocketman » Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:52 pm

LET ME TELL YOU MY INCREDIBLY WELL-RESEARCHED POWER LEVELS

BACKED BY (my incredibly poor grasp of) SCIENCE

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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Metalwario64 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:19 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:A lot of the older, more mature users are gone and in their place are younger guys who keep trying to make this place into Reddit-lite.
Yeah, that's why I was kinda excited when I saw Kunzait was back, but then he left again right away and sent me a PM saying he's probably not ever coming back as far as he can tell.
jjgp1112 wrote:It's also other little things (the grammar rules don't seem to get enforced as heavily as they used to)
DEFINITELY this too. I don't expect (nor really want) little things like slight errors and a missed comma corrected, but why has this thread's title still not been corrected? I've noticed more near illegible posts slipping through the cracks lately (can't remember specifics of course).
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:14 pm

Dang, Kunzait came back for a while? I wish he hasn't deleted his posts, they always waxed with nostalgia.

I'm not really sure what I can contribute to the main topic at hand, though. I hate to stand here and say "Yeah, things aren't what they used to be" but I cannot really offer any ideas as to how to improve things. I think there's a terrible amount of threads about power-related nonsense or whathaveyou, but who wants to be that asshole that decides which topic is worth having? My forum bookmark is the Unread Posts page so I can see which topics have never posts but so often are there few interesting topics on hand thanks to the mix of In-Universe nonsense.
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by DragonBalllKaiHD » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:06 am

Metalwario64 wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:A lot of the older, more mature users are gone and in their place are younger guys who keep trying to make this place into Reddit-lite.
Yeah, that's why I was kinda excited when I saw Kunzait was back, but then he left again right away and sent me a PM saying he's probably not ever coming back as far as he can tell.
I wonder what made Kunzait decide not to come back again.

It's a shame, really. All those crazy times back then were really fun. There were so many intelligent (and quality) discussions that were really worthwhile for everyone. 2009 was the year for me to be a part of the fun forums. Now it doesn't feel the same anymore. Like most posters said in this thread, many people left. NeptuneKai, Kunzait, RoarkVegeta, Dayspring, Tweaker, MajinVejitaXV, SaiyanProfessor, SSJ_Rambo all left. Recently Big Momma came back. Kendamu rarely comes here nowadays.

Also ban the power level discussions.

Edit: Just want to say something while I'm at it. The reason why I'm not a frequent user anymore is because, as you guessed it, most of the discussions don't seem interesting to me anymore. There's just not enough variety to them, and I've lost the interest to get involved in debates. Don't get me wrong. I do still visit the forums to see what's going on, just not actively involved like I used to.
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Metalwario64 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:43 am

DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:I wonder what made Kunzait decide not to come back again.
I believe it was this.
Kunzait_83 wrote:In the past several years I've developed a visceral loathing of and contempt for nostalgia. And unfortunately I find that while it's certainly not my reason for still liking Dragon Ball, it very much seems to be THE most central reason why the vast overwhelming majority of others still do; which is one among several other major factors that sadly makes most all of modern Dragon Ball fandom in its entirety extremely unpleasant for me to be around for very long stretches.
I personally disagree with this. I think excessive focus on nostalgia in one's life can be detrimental, but it in and of itself can usually be a very good thing. I also don't see as much of the nostalgic love for Dragon Ball that he apparently sees.

In his PM to me, he mentions his brief time here brought him "back to his senses".

I did learn some stuff from him, and it's a shame he feels so bitter about the fandom as a whole. But it's his life, so oh well. :|
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Piccolo Daimaoh » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:45 am

Rocketman wrote:LET ME TELL YOU MY INCREDIBLY WELL-RESEARCHED POWER LEVELS

BACKED BY (my incredibly poor grasp of) SCIENCE
Well, that's a separate thing, but I don't think people who analyse power levels are all that different from people who analyse video quality. To me, both seem like overanalysing something that shouldn't be, but if you're passionate about something, naturally you're going to analyse it a lot more, because you feel it deserves it.



Anyway, I agree with whoever said if you don't like the quality of discussion, do something about it. Start a new thread.

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