Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Leviathus » Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:58 am

Bring it on guys! A lovely topic to discuss!

And could we not throw all the "how strong is character x?" discussions in one sticky thread?

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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Scarz » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:23 pm

I'm totally game for this and I would love the help of fellow Kanzenshuu form members on a project like this. But first, we need to asks the basic questions before a topic like this could start.

-What would you want to see specifically in an "Art of DB" thread? (i.e. style, page composition, design, background art, etc.)

-What's the goal/purpose of the topic? (Could be as simple as "I want to learn more about Toriyama's style" or "I'm curious about how his art for this particular series developed".)

-What can you tribute to the topic? (Visuals images, you're knowledge about art in general, or just your own opinion from observation).

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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by TheGmGoken » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:29 pm

-What would you want to see specifically in an "Art of DB" thread? (i.e. style, page composition, design, background art, etc.)
All of them will be nice. Though I would be most exciting for Background art, style , and compostion
-What's the goal/purpose of the topic? (Could be as simple as "I want to learn more about Toriyama's style" or "I'm curious about how his art for this particular series developed".)
How the art developed over time and some background knowledge of Toriyama's style.
-What can you tribute to the topic? (Visuals images, you're knowledge about art in general, or just your own opinion from observation).
I'm not artist but I can judge art IMO. I would be more of an observation guy but I think I could contribute nicely. Being on this website and seeing how people judge art here helped me judge art better.

This type of topic is quite frankly could be the most exciting topic in a LONG time. As to be honest we covered almost everything in topics and we been getting repeat threads.
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Gogeta 00 » Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:59 am

Leviathus wrote:Bring it on guys! A lovely topic to discuss!

And could we not throw all the "how strong is character x?" discussions in one sticky thread?
I thought that there was one? Shows how much I venture into that part of the forum. Haha.
I'm totally game for this and I would love the help of fellow Kanzenshuu form members on a project like this. But first, we need to asks the basic questions before a topic like this could start.

-What would you want to see specifically in an "Art of DB" thread? (i.e. style, page composition, design, background art, etc.)

-What's the goal/purpose of the topic? (Could be as simple as "I want to learn more about Toriyama's style" or "I'm curious about how his art for this particular series developed".)

-What can you tribute to the topic? (Visuals images, you're knowledge about art in general, or just your own opinion from observation).
Just reading this makes me excited to see what you guys will come up with! Too bad aesthetics is an area of philosophy I've never bothered to study, I might have actually been able to offer something to this! haha
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Chuquita » Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:58 am

The evolution of Toriyama's art style and how the different art styles impact their respective arts (and how some of those arcs would look like in art styles from different arcs). Examples: Early DB's art looks very carefully constructed, post-saiyajin-arc is especially detailed and lively, the Buu arc is fast, loose, and angular.

Also how, at least in a number of Toriyama's character art for BOG, bits of retired earlier styles have resurfaced; specifically the proportions and placement of features on the characters faces look a lot closer to very early 80's DB than they do to both the style at the end of the series and the Kanzenban art style. Example: Bulma's face here: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/chp-004/ vs BOG http://www.imagebam.com/image/190942246849112 (slightly off-topic, but she's got grey eyebrows in that BOG one, Toriyama mistake or has Bulma's hair been going grey and she's been dying it?) vs the TOC for volume 42 of the manga which I cannot seem to find an image of so I will temporarily substitute it with the cover for volume 32 http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/tankobon/vol-32/. ^^;

In the character line-up piece (don't have a link atm) Chi-Chi's face looks especially like a modern version of early 80's Toriyama art: the eyes are noticeably farther apart than in the mid-late DB(Z) arcs and the face itself is a little wider.

Also of note, how in Toriyama's BOG art that was linked to, the way Vegeta's hairline is draw is done so in a far more natural-looking way than the (faster and easier) unbroken M-shaped line he has in most other Toriyama (and Toei) art. Gohan and Chi-Chi have similar more natural style with their hairlines too; I like the way it looks.
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Attitudefan » Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:14 pm

Scarz wrote:I'm totally game for this and I would love the help of fellow Kanzenshuu form members on a project like this. But first, we need to asks the basic questions before a topic like this could start.

-What would you want to see specifically in an "Art of DB" thread? (i.e. style, page composition, design, background art, etc.)

-What's the goal/purpose of the topic? (Could be as simple as "I want to learn more about Toriyama's style" or "I'm curious about how his art for this particular series developed".)

-What can you tribute to the topic? (Visuals images, you're knowledge about art in general, or just your own opinion from observation).
I would love to talk about the philosophy of page composition and how well it translates over to the anime for one. Think about how the arc's affected even the layout; for example, when Dragonball became more dramatic than comedy, how did that affect the page composition?

Bring knowledge to the table, observations on the subject matter, Toriyama's style and art (theory) and how we can learn from what he had done over the years which could help us as artists to improve as well.

Just an overall discussion to get our brains thinking and our creativity buzzing.
Chuquita wrote:The evolution of Toriyama's art style and how the different art styles impact their respective arts (and how some of those arcs would look like in art styles from different arcs). Examples: Early DB's art looks very carefully constructed, post-saiyajin-arc is especially detailed and lively, the Buu arc is fast, loose, and angular.

Also how, at least in a number of Toriyama's character art for BOG, bits of retired earlier styles have resurfaced; specifically the proportions and placement of features on the characters faces look a lot closer to very early 80's DB than they do to both the style at the end of the series and the Kanzenban art style. Example: Bulma's face here: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/chp-004/ vs BOG http://www.imagebam.com/image/190942246849112 (slightly off-topic, but she's got grey eyebrows in that BOG one, Toriyama mistake or has Bulma's hair been going grey and she's been dying it?) vs the TOC for volume 42 of the manga which I cannot seem to find an image of so I will temporarily substitute it with the cover for volume 32 http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/tankobon/vol-32/. ^^;

In the character line-up piece (don't have a link atm) Chi-Chi's face looks especially like a modern version of early 80's Toriyama art: the eyes are noticeably farther apart than in the mid-late DB(Z) arcs and the face itself is a little wider.

Also of note, how in Toriyama's BOG art that was linked to, the way Vegeta's hairline is draw is done so in a far more natural-looking way than the (faster and easier) unbroken M-shaped line he has in most other Toriyama (and Toei) art. Gohan and Chi-Chi have similar more natural style with their hairlines too; I like the way it looks.
See, how has Dragonball fit with the times? Has the art followed suit based on conventional norms and trends or has it gone a seperate direction, or has the tone of the manga affected the style overall?

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, these discussions could go on forever and are super interesting to me!! :clap:
My favourite art style (and animation) outside Toriyama who worked on Dragon Ball: Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, Masaki Satō, Minoru Maeda, Takeo Ide, Hisashi Eguchi, Katsumi Aoshima, Tomekichi Takeuchi, Masahiro Shimanuki, Kazuya Hisada

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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Scarz » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:49 pm

Everyone's coming up with really awesome ideas. There's a lot to discuss, maybe just one topic/thread won't be able to cover it all.

I've been thinking about this for days. I started looking through the recent DB Art books and I found my Toriyama exhibition book I purchased a while back. It's definitely helping to get a better understanding of the art and possibly come up with new ideas.

What do you guys think about having at least a few threads to cover the topic? What should the topics be specifically?

Chuquita's ideas for a constructed look at different styles from the major arcs is fantastic. Also I'm in love with the idea of how certain art styles for earlier arcs would look like for later ones (and vice versa) .
Attitudefan wrote:I would love to talk about the philosophy of page composition and how well it translates over to the anime for one. Think about how the arc's affected even the layout; for example, when Dragonball became more dramatic than comedy, how did that affect the page composition?
That would be so interesting, I'm loving it already!

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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Godo » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:06 pm

Well, I have *ahem* obtained the raws of the manga in digital form and could cut and crop panels that there is an interest in using them for the project.
There could be one section about general evolution of the art used.
Another would be the sceneries (which Toriyama is great at IMO), later one could have a tech section, and another evolution in drawing the characters (including Vegeta's shifting height and hairline ect.).

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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by MajinVejitaXV » Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:46 am

DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:It's a shame, really. All those crazy times back then were really fun. There were so many intelligent (and quality) discussions that were really worthwhile for everyone. 2009 was the year for me to be a part of the fun forums. Now it doesn't feel the same anymore. Like most posters said in this thread, many people left. NeptuneKai, Kunzait, RoarkVegeta, Dayspring, Tweaker, MajinVejitaXV, SaiyanProfessor, SSJ_Rambo all left. Recently Big Momma came back. Kendamu rarely comes here nowadays.
That guy was a prick. Li'l Lemmy told me there's a rumor going around that he's dead or something.
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Li'l Lemmy » Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:12 am

No loss there. I got SO tired of his constant bullfuck that I probably killed the bastard myself. ^_~


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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:25 am

Nah, he's off reading Bleach. A comic with an actual story. :wink:
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Hujio » Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:49 am

MajinVejitaXV wrote:
DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:It's a shame, really. All those crazy times back then were really fun. There were so many intelligent (and quality) discussions that were really worthwhile for everyone. 2009 was the year for me to be a part of the fun forums. Now it doesn't feel the same anymore. Like most posters said in this thread, many people left. NeptuneKai, Kunzait, RoarkVegeta, Dayspring, Tweaker, MajinVejitaXV, SaiyanProfessor, SSJ_Rambo all left. Recently Big Momma came back. Kendamu rarely comes here nowadays.
That guy was a prick.
I have to 100% agree with that.
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by DragonBoxZTheMovies » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:35 am

MajinVejitaXV wrote:
DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:It's a shame, really. All those crazy times back then were really fun. There were so many intelligent (and quality) discussions that were really worthwhile for everyone. 2009 was the year for me to be a part of the fun forums. Now it doesn't feel the same anymore. Like most posters said in this thread, many people left. NeptuneKai, Kunzait, RoarkVegeta, Dayspring, Tweaker, MajinVejitaXV, SaiyanProfessor, SSJ_Rambo all left. Recently Big Momma came back. Kendamu rarely comes here nowadays.
That guy was a prick. Li'l Lemmy told me there's a rumor going around that he's dead or something.
Haha, haven't heard that rumour. :lol:

The Slut of the Kanzenshuu Family has returned! Just in time to review the Blu-Ray sets, as well- seven years after the release of the 'Orange Bricks'!- (seven years, seven Dragon Balls. See what I/they did there? I'm sure it wasn't planned like that. Funny coincidence though)

Yeah, I was listening to episode 65 today. I'm sorry. :P

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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Scarz » Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:17 am

Just a little, tiny, widdle update here, but I've been reading through the dragon ball manga carefully studying the art. I might write up a first draft in January about it. I think a good first start to the "Art of DB" topic would be a general observation of the evolution of character designs compared to then and now. What do you guys think?

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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Ajay » Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:31 am

Scarz wrote:Just a little, tiny, widdle update here, but I've been reading through the dragon ball manga carefully studying the art. I might write up a first draft in January about it. I think a good first start to the "Art of DB" topic would be a general observation of the evolution of character designs compared to then and now. What do you guys think?
I would absolutely love that. I have a lot to say on it so would definitely be keen to be involved in the discussion. Can't wait to read!
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by TheGmGoken » Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:47 pm

Scarz wrote:Just a little, tiny, widdle update here, but I've been reading through the dragon ball manga carefully studying the art. I might write up a first draft in January about it. I think a good first start to the "Art of DB" topic would be a general observation of the evolution of character designs compared to then and now. What do you guys think?
Great idea. I hope no one tries to make the topic to early :problem: . Prefer if people who actually understands art make the topic so they can explain. While people like me just watches and post when there a major difference or a style change,
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Attitudefan » Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:08 pm

Scarz wrote:Just a little, tiny, widdle update here, but I've been reading through the dragon ball manga carefully studying the art. I might write up a first draft in January about it. I think a good first start to the "Art of DB" topic would be a general observation of the evolution of character designs compared to then and now. What do you guys think?
I would be heavily involved in a discussion like this so it should be a go!
My favourite art style (and animation) outside Toriyama who worked on Dragon Ball: Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, Masaki Satō, Minoru Maeda, Takeo Ide, Hisashi Eguchi, Katsumi Aoshima, Tomekichi Takeuchi, Masahiro Shimanuki, Kazuya Hisada

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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by MajinVejitaXV » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:51 am

DragonBoxZTheMovies wrote:Haha, haven't heard that rumour. :lol:

The Slut of the Kanzenshuu Family has returned! Just in time to review the Blu-Ray sets, as well- seven years after the release of the 'Orange Bricks'!- (seven years, seven Dragon Balls. See what I/they did there? I'm sure it wasn't planned like that. Funny coincidence though)

Yeah, I was listening to episode 65 today. I'm sorry. :P
Psh, I never left really. I check on things from time to time. I just got burnt out, switched careers, etc. Like I was telling Heath awhile back, it's amusing to look back on things. The Blu-ray review thing might be funny, simply to see the contrast between angry, 23 year old Corey vs. apathetic 30 year old Corey.

<23 year old Me> *spouts hours worth of angry rants about this release*

<30 year old Me> Jeez, this again? That sucks I guess. So anyway, let's make the most of this time and see if any Kanzenshuuites know Alison Brie and can introduce me. She likes dudes with long hair, right?

;p

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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by Kaboom » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:54 am

MajinVejitaXV wrote:<30 year old Me> Jeez, this again? That sucks I guess. So anyway, let's make the most of this time and see if any Kanzenshuuites know Alison Brie and can introduce me. She likes dudes with long hair, right?
If I personally knew Alison Brie, I wouldn't be wasting my time farting around on a message board with any of you bozos.
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Re: Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

Post by MajinVejitaXV » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:56 am

Kaboom wrote:
MajinVejitaXV wrote:<30 year old Me> Jeez, this again? That sucks I guess. So anyway, let's make the most of this time and see if any Kanzenshuuites know Alison Brie and can introduce me. She likes dudes with long hair, right?
If I personally knew Alison Brie, I wouldn't be wasting my time farting around on a message board with any of you bozos.
That's fine. I call front.

[/and thus I bring the quality of discussion back to a high level, yes? ;)]
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