I'd like to make a point that I think the entire community should benefit from. No one here seems to know how to make a case for anything, and it makes conversation quite dull. I'll skim over examples of this in yesterday's infamous thread in order:
Hostility is not an argument.And frankly, no, it's your hostility towards this topic that's embarrassing.
Offense is not an argumentI think General Blue is considered an offensive stereotype in this case. Still a great character. In the manga.
Misspelled words are not an argument, and irrelevant, hyperemotional tangents are not an argument.No, General Blue is a negative Stereotype, 100 percent and with zero ambiguity. Your atitude shows exactly why representation is necesary. NO, not all gay people are hyper flamboyant stereotypes. Most Gay people are not Hyper Flamboyant stereotypes. Same goes double for Gay people being peadophiles. STEREOTYPES DO NOT REFLECT REALITY!
Extremely selective, unprofessionally biased moderation is not an argument.VegettoEX wrote:This is not the way to have a discussion.Jinzoningen Mule wrote:Get that chip off your shoulder and learn how to have a discussion, dude.
Lies are not arguments. Public schools have taught sex-ed for a long time in most western countries, the only way this is possible is if the teachers were in breach, the parents explicitly denied access, or the poster didn't have public education.You know how much sexual education I had during the 00s? 0. None. Nothing. And I have a younger cousin who is in, I believe first or second year of High School, and they don't teach anything of sexual education.
Misrepresentations and/or illiteracy are not arguments.And you're constant referring to representation and diversity of a cancer isn't acceptable. Please, stop it.
Authority is not an argument.no matter which side of this conversation you're on, do you really think snarking to the mod is gonna get you anywhere?
Emotional reactions to jokes and calling something "ignorant" without bothering to make a case does not qualify as an argument.VegettoEX wrote:There are so many ignorant comments leading up to and culminating in this statement that I'm at a loss for further words.
Vaguely referencing anonymous 3rd-hand anecdotes is not an argument.VegettoEX wrote:Please go back and read the comments in this thread from gay people discussing their personal experience with representation in media. Use that as a starting point, and do some additional reading outside of this community.
"Hatred" or "Hate speech" (Whatever that means) and a discouragement of the principle of freedom of speech is pathetic. One couldn't make their lack of character more obvious. Oh, and it's not an argument either.VegettoEX wrote:Freedom of speech is the right (in some countries) to speak out against your government without fear of retaliation. We are not your government and we don't have to put up with hatred.
Straw-mans aren't arguments, you at least have to go somewhere with your false premise."As long as we're not dead last when it comes to respecting human dignity, then we're doing good enough!"
The President of the United States is not an argument.Well when the US president makes statements like this, then wherever being first place or not is irrelevant.
Insults based on flimsy ground are not arguments.I'm not sure how it looks in that pile of sand you've buried your head in, but no, in the real world, we're still far from the finish line that is "actually respecting human dignity". We're far enough away from it that we ourselves are never likely to see that finish line, nor are our children, or our children's children.
A reductionist comment about "bridge-burning" (which no one was doing) is not an argument.At work, so I'll keep this terse. I am dissapointed that a bunch of grown ups on a forum to discuss children's cartoons and comics (itself a non traditional life style) are actively burning bridges with their fellow minorities by brushing off their trials. What arrogance and ignorance leads you to think you won't be next? That the Jennifer in a man's body doesn't understand the demeaning you feel when someone shames you for your feelings? Holy cow, folks.
Locking a thread because you liked the last comment and didn't want anyone to respond isn't an argument, and it's absolutely disgusting.This seems like a great place to leave things.
It's very telling that someone is so insecure they feel they need to abuse their moderator power to prevent certain thoughts from getting through.
GET THE IDEA?! It doesn't matter whether you feel morally justified or have moderator power. If you're actively detracting from discussions, you're making the forums worse!
Christ! It's embarrassing that I, someone who's posting quality could be graded a B- on my absolute best day, is having to point out that VegettoEX and Hujio, the guys who pay the bills, the guys who are supposedly running this place, are in active violation of the basic principles of discourse... Like, what are you even doing? You obviously aren't really interested in discussions that fall out of your very narrow purview, so why don't you leave overseeing them to moderators that have a vested interest in being remotely competent? That's rhetorical, by the way, I already know exactly why.
Special credit to Doctor., Zephyr, Gaffer Tape, and Kunzait_83 for actually not being totally terrible and unproductive in yesterday's discussion. Even those of you who said stupid things also bothered to make cases for some of the things you said. I would've loved to address your points at the end of the thread, Kunzait_83, because I did have a lot to say about it. Unfortunately, the Kanzenshuu staff seem to have so little faith in your ideas that they couldn't bare to even risk them being disturbed.
Anyway, to the point I was making, when it comes to rational discourse, you have to state your point, back that up with something, and follow your evidence to a conclusion. That's what we call an "argument", and it's fundamental to civil discourse. Likewise, when someone makes an argument that you don't like, you don't get to respond with:
This line of thinking is retarded beyond all reason, and it's what many members here will default to. No, you have to either provide a counter-argument or you have to knock the legs out from the existing one. Since the Kanzenshuu staff don't know how this works, it's understandable that some younger members might not have known better, but if you're above the age of 15, this shouldn't be hard. I'm not exempting myself either, I'm a total bitch, I have rampant mood-swings, and when the pendulum goes the wrong way, I tend to shit-post. Still, I do try to construct reasonable arguments most of the time, which is more than I can say about the more petty staff, who do little more than police discussions they have nothing to do with, and they don't even do that consistently. The only three members with moderator status who contribute to conversations (a.k.a. what the forums are for) to any significant degree are Ajay, Kaboom, and TheDevilsCorpse. Grateful for them, glad they're here. Ajay especially has been exceedingly helpful, I recall several times when I've hastily given out incorrect information, only for him to come along and correct me, and at least once, put me in my place. He's also the one responsible for my ongoing interest in animation. Seriously, I'm so thankful for you three, who are actually competent enough to have discussions and make arguments. I'm sure we have disagreements, I'm sure that none of you even agree with this post, but you guys are the staff for the forums as far as I'm concerned.Nuh-uh, X is Y, 100%% and with no ambigulity. Ure atitude shows exactly why Z is Q. CAPITAL LETERS GIVE ME AUTHORITY ON THIS MATTER REEEEE!
TL;DR: For the love of God, learn how to discuss, Kanzenshuu. This isn't hard.
For the one or two people who might care (A.K.A. leave now or cringe): Unfortunately, with the recent revelations of the true distasteful nature of the staff here, I can't, in good conscience, support this website anymore. Not until this changes. My heart hasn't been in any of the conversations for quite some time now, it was a long time coming, and yesterday's events finally gave me a legitimate catalyst. I do recommend that if you find any legitimacy in what I've said in here, you consider the implications of that, and perhaps reconsider your own compliance in the shameful behavior on the part of the staff. That's not out of spite, they don't want you regardless!
Consider this my resignation? Anyway, if anyone wants to contact me, you can probably find my social media. It's been a good year, what a shame it couldn't end on good terms due to the poor behavior of two insignificant people.