Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

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Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

Post by Matchstckgmr » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:35 pm

Okay so just to get something out of the way I played these games and love them. So no hate what so ever however I wonder if anyone has ever critically looked at these games and tried to find problems? I see people always talk like these were so much better than Xenoverse and FighterZ. I have this odd feeling we and I include myself with that look at the old Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games with nostalgia goggles on. Most of these old games have much larger roasters than the current games but like did most of the characters play the same what other issues did they have? I am ultimately here to ask anyone with an open mind to maybe point out the issues these old games had. Like could some of the criticisms one might levy against FighterZ or the Xenoverse games apply to the old but very much loved PS2 era DBZ games. I know nothing is perfect by no stretch of the word but people talk like the old Budokai and Budokai Tenkaichi games have next to no issues and are far better games in every way. Please note I am not making this topic to talk trash about the old or new games simply more for looking at the old Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games in a none nostalgic view that is both fair and critical.

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Re: Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

Post by Grimlock » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:08 pm

"Bad"? No. "Overestimated"? Hell yes. I, too, played the Budokai Tenkaichi series back in the day. Gameplay-wise, they were fun. I remember the feeling I had when I found out that you could transform during the battle, how I wished to get my hands on the second and third installments as soon as possible.

That said, it was a time when Dragon Ball was dead. I was a kid and no new story was released so I didn't know how much me and the franchise itself needed a total refresh. Which is why seeing now my fun back then was very limited. I never cared for a large roaster because I never play with every single character.

Thankfully, all of that changed in 2015. A time when "story" was already the thing I looked forward the most and things were about to get a lot better. While I do appreciate gameplay being fun, that is not enough for me. I did and still want to see some new story. I was very tired of that old freaking bullshit that was plaguing the video-games with that "Raditz to Buu" shit.

Budokai Tenkaichi series are overestimated, and I would bet it's mostly because of nostalgia (by the way, which also plagues this franchise, unfortunately). People are too attached to their fond memories that they become blind and can't see how flawed something may be/may have become. Gameplay was cool and you could transform whenever you wanted but that was all that is to it. In the bigger picture: more of the same. More of the same thing we've had since the 1990s games and continued up until 2014. Geez, talk about being stuck in a bubble getting the same thing over and over and over and over and you just don't realize you're going in circles...

For today's standards, I think I can call them "mediocre games" but we all should really move on. No more of that nightmare. Now more than ever we need more games to bring something new, not only for the sake of games themselves, but because the series doesn't seem to want that. If Dragon Ball can breathe today, it's all thanks to the games that stopped with the mindless rehashing and stepped out of the safe zone.
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Re: Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:48 pm

No. The first two Budokai games the first Tenkaichi might be "bad" by today's standard but they were good for what they were and were pretty much the best they had at the time.

I can still play B3/IW, BT2, and BT3 and have a good time with others.
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Re: Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

Post by EXBadguy » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:03 am

I consider BT1 to be mediocre as it has aged poorly, but the other two aren't bad, they're good in their own right and they'll always be classics. I remember being surprised how much of an improvement BT2 was and BT3 is like the King of Fighters 98 or 2002 of the DBZ games. For some reason though, I liked BT2 the most out of the three, as it had a better story mode, better game modes, and an epic soundtrack(not to say the soundtrack for BT3 was good too though)
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Re: Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

Post by sintzu » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:47 am

B3 and BT3 are considered by a good number of fans as the best games in the franchise.
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Re: Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:12 am

budokai 1 and 2 aren't super great, 1's kinda clunky with its mechanics, the gameplay isn't bad but it just doesn't feel super well executed as a whole. budokai 2 is definitely a improvement, but i've always thought it was kinda lacking in content, and on the petty side, i think the hud is really ugly. budokai 3 i love and still holds up really well, it's just a great fighting game.
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Re: Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

Post by Matchstckgmr » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:47 am

I appreciate everyone's replies to this as in most cases for me anyways when I ask such a question I usually get called a hater or stupid for even questioning if these games have any sort of flaws. I loved them too as I said but I know they are not perfect and I honestly think some of the flaws levied against Xenoverse 1/2 and FighterZ can apply to the old PS2 era DBZ games. Not every flaw obviously but some I look forward to everyone else that replies with any info about some issues any of the old PS2 era DBZ games had. As I think its good to point out flaws but that does not mean you can't like it or love it still it just means you see the issues.

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Re: Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

Post by omegacwa » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:12 am

It's been a really, really long time since I've played those games. I use to buy every dragon ball game that came out, that time has long since passed.

From what I remember, Budokai 1 and 3 where my favorite of that series and Budokai Tenkaichi 2 being my favorite of that series. I also put in some time on Burst Limit.

Overall, I feel like denying that FighterZ is the best Dragon Ball game ever made is strange. I understand subjective opinion can vary greatly, but I feel it stands head and shoulders above all the others. I mean the game has been out for a year and a half and people are still playing it and begging for more DLC.

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Re: Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:18 pm

omegacwa wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:12 am
Overall, I feel like denying that FighterZ is the best Dragon Ball game ever made is strange. I understand subjective opinion can vary greatly, but I feel it stands head and shoulders above all the others.
That's the thing though - which video game is "best" is always going to be a 100% subjective opinion-based decision when you get down to it. I feel like The Legend of Dragoon is the best RPG ever made, but that doesn't make it a fact with tons of other RPG fans. I enjoyed FighterZ, but for someone who is much more of a solo player like myself? There's just...not a ton of replay value to it. I haven't even gone back to it yet to finish the Arcade Mode stuff or finish leveling up the characters to get all of their scenes where they talk with the player, because to do so it's basically just do more and more fights. It can get pretty tedious. For a one player experience, I feel even Xenoverse 2 offers way more to a player, but again, that's just me.

As far as my memories of the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games go though - they're fun and fine for their time, but they definitely show their age in their earliest incarnations. Budokai 1 is SUPER SLOW, the fights moving like molasses; 2's board game story mode might not be for everyone, but the fighting is a lot better and the cel-shaded graphics are nice to look at; Budokai 3's story mode and fighting system is basically the peak of the series for me, and while I haven't played it in a long time, I feel like I'd still enjoy it now. For the Tenkaichi series, 1 is extremely rough and plays like it's just the planned beta for the full game we wouldn't get until Tenkaichi 2 (kind of like Xenoverse 1 going into 2); Tenkaichi 2 likewise plays a lot better, and has some really fun what-if story bits; Tenkaichi 3's story mode is a step down again, but it's play style and roster are, much like Budokai 3, the peak of this system. So basically, if someone were to want to revisit those two runs and only play the best ones, I'd suggest they just play the third installment for each one.
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Re: Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

Post by omegacwa » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:30 pm

Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:18 pm
That's the thing though - which video game is "best" is always going to be a 100% subjective opinion-based decision when you get down to it. I feel like The Legend of Dragoon is the best RPG ever made, but that doesn't make it a fact with tons of other RPG fans. I enjoyed FighterZ, but for someone who is much more of a solo player like myself? There's just...not a ton of replay value to it. I haven't even gone back to it yet to finish the Arcade Mode stuff or finish leveling up the characters to get all of their scenes where they talk with the player, because to do so it's basically just do more and more fights. It can get pretty tedious. For a one player experience, I feel even Xenoverse 2 offers way more to a player, but again, that's just me.
I never play FighterZ online and I've never played local multiplayer either.

For me it's strengths lie in how dramatic the game is. The graphics are insanely good and the animations are even better. It feels like playing the anime. The controls are pretty easy to pick up on as well. They are complicated enough without being street fighter level insane button combos and also not so lame that you just push one button.

The story mode is pretty awful and far too long. It certainly could use a bit more single player modes, and the prizes are pretty lame.

The thing is, even with it's flaws, no other Dragon Ball game has come this close to reproducing the anime in such detail while also appealing to people who don't even care about Dragon Ball at all.

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Re: Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

Post by Drayenko » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:56 pm

This is an opinion from someone who played them as they came out and still plays them regularly.

Budokai 1 was the bomb. It was so different from Final Bout. Felt fast and responsive, felt Dragon Ball-ish.
The graphics haven't aged well, but the game is playable.

Budokai 2 was an improvement in the gameplay department and the graphics. I definitely prefer these graphics to the first one.
Hate the story mode chess board thingy, though.

Budokai 3 improved on everything. This is what sequels should strive to be. Years and years have passed and the game is still stupid fun.

-------
Tenkaichi 1, when it came out it was AMAZING. It was different, refreshing. It felt like the show.
Nowadays the game is so freaking bad, almost unplayable.

Tenkaichi 2 improved many things and was super fun on every department. Probably the Dragon Ball game, or any game for that matter, that I've played the most, ever. Still can be fun to play.

Tenkaichi 3 improved many things from the second game. Battles were better. More characters, which is and was cool. And what can I say... the game is still highly playable. I'd rather play this than Xenoverse. Any day.

----

And then Infinite World, which is a Budokai 4(?) of sorts.

This game is so so so so good. Better than Budokai 3, better than all the others. Everything was polished to where it needed to be. My favorite Dragon Ball game as of today.

I would say all of the games made a positive impact when they came out. They are all still playable, except for Tenkaichi 1, which honestly aged poorly.

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Re: Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

Post by Matchstckgmr » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:38 pm

So far everyone seems to agree the last Budokai and Tenkaichi games the 3 for each seems to be the best which makes sense or should make sense if you make a sequel the next game should be better than the previous. I appreciate everyone's opinions but I still ask could any of the criticisms levied against the Xenoverse series of games or FighterZ be applied or levied at the old but very much loved PS2 Era DBZ Games.

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Re: Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

Post by Thanos » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:15 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:48 pm
No. The first two Budokai games the first Tenkaichi might be "bad" by today's standard but they were good for what they were and were pretty much the best they had at the time.

I can still play B3/IW, BT2, and BT3 and have a good time with others.
I thought at the time back in 2005, the first Tenkaichi was pretty bad even back then after the 3D movement/over the shoulder camera novelty wore
off, and my 15-year-old fanboy mind wasn’t exactly discerning with things labeled DBZ. Ah, simpler times.

Maybe the first Budokai is genuinely awful, but being the first modern Western console release of a DBZ game, my nostalgia goggles might be just that potent. I still contend Budokai 2 is a lovely game, it had a really amazing atmosphere all around and I genuinely like the board game style.
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Re: Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

Post by 90sDBZ » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:44 am

Budokai 1 and 2 are basically your average licensed fighting games in terms of gameplay. In terms of presentation, music, and fan service they're well above average. B1 had the awesome story mode, and B2 had all those What-if forms. I also think I'm one of the few who liked the Gameboard story in B2.

Budokai 3 was a massive leap forward in just about every area, and still holds up as a great game to this day, still being my favourite DB game of all time. It's easy enough to pick up and have fun with for a casual player, but there's also enough under the surface to satisfy semi-competitive players. It isn't a hardcore competitive fighting game to the extent of Fighterz, but there is a certain amount of depth to the gameplay, which makes me think the series could have become competitive had it continued beyond Infinite World.

Speaking of Infinite World, it's a criminally overlooked and underrated game, which further tweaked the gameplay and expanded the roster. Gameplay wise it's the best Dimps have done for the series. It lacked a tournament mode, dropped a few characters from the roster in favour of other new ones, and didn't have voice overs on the menus. I think this was likely due to time and budget constraints. And the CPU was brutal for beginners, but fun for Budokai 3 veterans. Still a great game at its core, and the main reason I prefer Budokai 3 is the Story Mode, as I loved flying around the world, finding cool stuff and special interactions, and levelling up.

Tenkaichi 1 was really fun for me for the first month or so. I could tell early on the gameplay was flawed, but I was caught up in the initial excitement of going "full 3D", and the roster. I go back to it every now and then, but not too often. It ultimately felt like more of a test run than a complete game.

Tenkaichi 2 was infinitely better. In fact I'd say the improvement from BT1 to 2 was greater than that from 2 to 3. The game looked and played so much smoother and faster, there were actual combo options beyond basic melee, and the roster was incredible at the time. I think after Budokai 3, BT2 is the most hyped I've been for a DB game prior to release. Still a solid game to this day, and in some ways better than BT3. Also the soundtrack was great, nearly as good as Yamamoto's Budokai music.

Tenkaichi 3 remains a fan favourite, and it's easy to see why. The roster got even bigger, and the gameplay was further developed to give you more options. Even though most characters still played the same, there was some challenge to it, such as mastering Z counter, and Z-snap attack (or whatever the name for it was). I still go back to it sometimes, and playing it does feel like playing the show itself to some extent.

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Re: Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:12 pm

i've been ridiculously sick for the past couple weeks and i've been playing a lot of the HD budokai collection just too pass the time. i really can't stress enough on how clunky budokai 1 is, just the way the ki attacks work make no sense. like i swear so often the opponent just barely gets hurt by it, and there's no knock back too it, so once it's over, their just free too combo you. hell same with combos themselves, once your combo is over, that's basically a free combo for your opponent, because sometimes the last hit doesn't knock them back.

budokai 3 still holds up extremly well though, my main issue is the dragon rush thing. the computer spams it so often, it can get ridiculous. but i love the gameplay, roster and i really love the presentation.
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Re: Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

Post by Matchstckgmr » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:49 am

90sDBZ wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:44 am
Speaking of Infinite World, it's a criminally overlooked and underrated game, which further tweaked the gameplay and expanded the roster. Gameplay wise it's the best Dimps have done for the series. It lacked a tournament mode, dropped a few characters from the roster in favour of other new ones, and didn't have voice overs on the menus. I think this was likely due to time and budget constraints. And the CPU was brutal for beginners, but fun for Budokai 3 veterans. Still a great game at its core, and the main reason I prefer Budokai 3 is the Story Mode, as I loved flying around the world, finding cool stuff and special interactions, and levelling up.
Yeah I agree Infinite World is overlooked and underrated I mostly think it was due to the lack of advertising US side anyways not sure about other markets and I know it was released towards the end of the PS2's life so most of the focus was what's gonna be on the PS3.

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Re: Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

Post by 90sDBZ » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:47 pm

Soppa Saia People wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:12 pm
i've been ridiculously sick for the past couple weeks and i've been playing a lot of the HD budokai collection just too pass the time. i really can't stress enough on how clunky budokai 1 is, just the way the ki attacks work make no sense. like i swear so often the opponent just barely gets hurt by it, and there's no knock back too it, so once it's over, their just free too combo you. hell same with combos themselves, once your combo is over, that's basically a free combo for your opponent, because sometimes the last hit doesn't knock them back.

budokai 3 still holds up extremly well though, my main issue is the dragon rush thing. the computer spams it so often, it can get ridiculous. but i love the gameplay, roster and i really love the presentation.
Budokai 1 was pretty clunky, although there are ways to use special moves without getting hit immediately afterwards, like using them in a juggle combo, or sidestep cancelling a string to use it from behind.

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Re: Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:00 pm

90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:47 pm
Budokai 1 was pretty clunky, although there are ways to use special moves without getting hit immediately afterwards, like using them in a juggle combo, or sidestep cancelling a string to use it from behind.
yeah that is definitely true (though i didn't know about the side stepping thing), but i don't know i feel like in most fighting games, special moves do knock back even when the opponent blocks, but in budokai 1 more often than not it's a negative too do them.

i will say though the character portraits on the character select screen are really cute.
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Re: Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:32 am

The biggest thorn they've left us is the silly expectation that every Dragon Ball game with a character select screen should have 120+ characters because Spike broke some eternal franchise-wide ceiling that must be respected, on weaker hardware, with no thought for the time allotted and needs of a given game (hint: Spike's needs were very deliberately quantity). That said I've grown to appreciate just how much Spike was able to get working with Tenkaichi 2 and 3 with that obvious emphasis on quantity. It is easy to look at those games and say they have a hundred nothing characters, but if you flip that on its head and say they have a fun movement system spread across 15 times too many characters, they're fun. Not enough to make 5 vs 5 battles remind you of just how much of the same thing you're doing, but enough that ZenoAnnihilated's expose series feels deserved. I'd like to see what you could do if took all of the game's elements and tried to shrink them down into maybe a dozen more distinct characters. Tenkaichi 1 was a published beta and felt like it from the get go, and it doesn't have Budokai 1's sheer reverence for the material and what it represented as a concept for new Dragon Ball video games to save it (watch the story mode again and see how many minor scene location are fully modeled to appear for five seconds, it is beautiful. We will never have that again). As much as I like a lot of its one-offs ("And now, the screams of Majin Buu are all that echo over this land... but there is no one left to hear them...")
90sDBZ wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:44 am
Tenkaichi 2 was infinitely better. In fact I'd say the improvement from BT1 to 2 was greater than that from 2 to 3. The game looked and played so much smoother and faster, there were actual combo options beyond basic melee, and the roster was incredible at the time.
100%. I played both games at length a while after their initial releases and far apart, giving 2 all it was worth before playing 3, and as I expected 2 did all of the actually mechanical fixing and 3 was almost entirely tweaking and visuals. I recall a series retrospective saying 2 sold the least of the three, for some reason, but even then for annual anime fighters you don't have a lot of reason to meticulously compare, them so I can't say DBZ game 2006 was robbed by DBZ game 2007.
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Re: Is the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games bad?

Post by Xeogran » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:00 pm

Budokai 1 still has the best 3D story mode in all of Dragon Ball games. The way the characters move and act is really detailed and it's impressive. There's no "stock animations", like in Budokai Tenkaichi/Burst Limit/Raging Blast/Xenoverse story modes.

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