"Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

[emperior]

V-Jump confirms Beerus will be DLC, by showing an image of the tree on his planet. In this case I am quite sure we will get Battle of Gods and Resurrection F. Then there’s seemingly a new story, which of course will take place after RoF so I am really curious about what it will be. It would be nice if it were their own take on post-EoZ content with Goku training Uub and having their rematch, but I very much doubt it will be that. I just hope it won’t be anymore Mira and Towa stuff but unfortunately I have a feeling it will be exactly that.

Honestly BoG and RoF should be both included in the first DLC. It shouldn’t really be too hard to implement the two stories in the game.

Oh, by the way V-Jump also confirmed the stuff which came from Toriyama were the animaline (or animorphaline) drug and the Saiyan tails tidbits. I personally don’t mind the two explanations.

[Grimlock]

The tail thing is weird and doesn't make much sense. What do you mean "surpass the power of Oozaru"?

Power is not set in stone in Dragon Ball, they're changeable. Freeza saga Vegeta is stronger than his Oozaru form from the Saiyans saga, but an Oozaru Vegeta from Freeza saga is still stronger. The transformations depend on the power level of the base form, if the base form gets stronger, so will all the transformations.

[The Undying]

Maybe Oozaru's power is more set in stone than people think and doesn't necessarily depend on base power. Maybe its "multiplier" gradually becomes more obsolete after reaching a certain level of strength, depending on the Saiyan.

I don't know why this stuff always gets power level enthusiasts in a tizzy. You don't need to take every piece of dialogue hyper-literally. It's not that deep.

These explanations are fine. I'm not surprised they came from Toriyama. The animorphaline bit in particular sounds so "out there" that it's hard to imagine it would come from anyone else, and anime game devs almost never just make up completely new lore on the spot without supervision.

[Koitsukai]

I agree it doesn't make sense the ohzaru explanation. It was a multiplier from the get go althroughout DB, Z and even GT. Actually the Vegeta that fought Cui wasn't stronger than the ohzaru that broke Goku's legs, so why no tail?

I would've liked that after the mainstory and before the upcoming DLCs, we got to fight Abocado instead of Mira and leave those demon realm guys for much later, for when the dbs DLC run out and we have nothing else to do. Also to emphasize how strong Goku-tachi have gotten and then have Beerus come in and prove them wrong. They came up with Bonyu, who isn't much different from Abo and Cado and she could've even had some connection with them.


Oh, I hope when fighting Beerus they implement a new gameplay like we discussed in previous pages or something, because if I'm going to stomp Beerus in-game and then go to a cutscene where I'm all injured and gasping, and Beerus is just unscathed and imperturbable I don't think I'm gonna like it, I mean we are not suppose to beat him. Beerus should be invincible and I hope the game shows it. Wonder what LVL will he be? 200? 500? 1000? and Whis? 5,000?

[TheSaiyanGod]

Scan showing Beerus' castle

Spoiler:

The translation:

"Remember this particular Tree Shape!?"

"Additional DLC information will be revealed in future issues of V-Jump"

[emperior]

Maybe Oozaru's power is more set in stone than people think and doesn't necessarily depend on base power. Maybe its "multiplier" gradually becomes more obsolete after reaching a certain level of strength, depending on the Saiyan.

I don't know why this stuff always gets power level enthusiasts in a tizzy. You don't need to take every piece of dialogue hyper-literally. It's not that deep.

These explanations are fine. I'm not surprised they came from Toriyama. The animorphaline bit in particular sounds so "out there" that it's hard to imagine it would come from anyone else, and anime game devs almost never just make up completely new lore on the spot without supervision.

My take on the tail information is that maybe it refers to the level of power a Saiyan had in the last Oozaru transformation. So once Vegeta surpassed his Oozaru’s PL of 180k his tail couldn’t regrow anymore.
But, as you said, the power of an Oozaru may actually be a more static one.

And yes, the animaline stuff was obviously Toriyama’s idea. Now I wonder what other stuff from this game is from Toriyama. A recent tweet by Bandai Namco suggests that the Tsuru Sennin quest and Krillin’s first date with 18 were other stories by Toriyama. Maybe that “Piccolo didn’t actually destroy the moon” bit was also Toriyama’s... and it makes little sense, but it’s expected when people ask him questions about material he has probably forgotten.

[Grimlock]

A bit more about the animaline stuff, kinda interesting for me who likes dates: Bulma was around ten when it was a fad, which means around AGE 743, merely six years prior to the beginning of Dragon Ball.

Spoiler:

[The Undying]

Now I wonder what other stuff from this game is from Toriyama.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of the new stuff is. I like that V-Jump is still publishing his contributions to the game, so hopefully there's more info to come.

The expansion pass is pretty much a guaranteed purchase for me now.

[emperior]

A bit more about the animaline stuff, kinda interesting for me who likes dates: Bulma was around ten when it was a fad, which means around AGE 743, merely six years prior to the beginning of Dragon Ball.

Spoiler:

I guess it was done to explain why there were no animal people in Jaco? (From what I can remember, at least)

[Grimlock]

I also don't remember seeing beast people in Jaco. Intentionally or not, this information explains their absence in that manga.

[Scsigs]

I also don't remember seeing beast people in Jaco. Intentionally or not, this information explains their absence in that manga.

Gotta love retcons that we're expected to take seriously as canon being dropped in the video games now & not just spin-off prequel mangas, new Super arcs, & Toriyama's interviews JK Rowling-style. Viva los retcons!

[Grimlock]

What "retcons"? As far as I know the only thing that seems to be a retroactive continuity is that Piccolo/moon thing. Everything else is new.

Information can be dropped/originated from anywhere, really. And you're not expected to take anything. You do you, take it or ignore it. It's all up to you. Especially in franchises/fictional works where there is no canon established, like Dragon Ball.

[Koitsukai]

What's up with that 18 and Krilin first date? I don't think I did it, I only remember doing one that I had to fish something for Marron as Gureto Saiyaman, clearly not their first date, and an awful one where Marron uses Korin as a teddy bear.

When was it available? does it bring anything new to the table?

Also, I'm wondering if those who liked the game, after finishing it, did they keep playing it or were they bored soon enough?

[Scsigs]

What "retcons"? As far as I know the only thing that seems to be a retroactive continuity is that Piccolo/moon thing. Everything else is new.

Information can be dropped/originated from anywhere, really. And you're not expected to take anything. You do you, take it or ignore it. It's all up to you. Especially in franchises/fictional works where there is no canon established, like Dragon Ball.

"Retroactive continuity," or "retcon" literally means continuity added or changed at a later date to an earlier part of a story, hence the word "retroactive" in the title. The "Piccolo didn't actually destroy the moon" thing was more of an inconsistency & wasn't there before one of the updates that changed the text for some reason, so I don't really take that seriously. And, I've already had this argument, so I'm just gonna say there IS an established canon in DB. If you don't think there is one, you're either an idiot or in deep denial.

[Grimlock]

I'm just gonna say there IS an established canon in DB.

Well then, by all means, provide a source. I'd like to take a look at it. I've been very curious about this supposed canon Dragon Ball supposedly has. All I see are merely opinions, but seeing something official might be interesting.

If you don't think there is one, you're either an idiot or in deep denial.

Wow, take it easy, boy.

[Dbzfan94]

What's up with that 18 and Krilin first date? I don't think I did it, I only remember doing one that I had to fish something for Marron as Gureto Saiyaman, clearly not their first date, and an awful one where Marron uses Korin as a teddy bear.

When was it available? does it bring anything new to the table?

Also, I'm wondering if those who liked the game, after finishing it, did they keep playing it or were they bored soon enough?

It was available after the Cell Games during the intermission.

I finished the story and beat all of the villianous enemies except for Mira. I took a break but I'm going back to it to get the last 3 trophies before I call it quits until the DLC.

[emperior]

I'm just gonna say there IS an established canon in DB.

Well then, by all means, provide a source. I'd like to take a look at it. I've been very curious about this supposed canon Dragon Ball supposedly has. All I see are merely opinions, but seeing something official might be interesting.

https://i.imgur.com/6nFO6dX.jpg
https://mobile.twitter.com/Herms98/stat ... 7927271424

Like it or not, there is canon in Dragon Ball and it is Toriyama’s story.
The fact you prefer other official products doesn’t make them part of the main continuity.

[Scsigs]

I'm just gonna say there IS an established canon in DB.

Well then, by all means, provide a source. I'd like to take a look at it. I've been very curious about this supposed canon Dragon Ball supposedly has. All I see are merely opinions, but seeing something official might be interesting.

If we look at every piece of DB media produced since 2009, it's clear the manga is what Toei, Shueisha, & Toriyama are dictating as the canon. Nothing takes any of the filler of the Z anime into account (Kai: TFC keeping in more filler than it should've, including the Hell filler, which has a discontinuity with the first 98 episodes since they didn't show Hell, notwithstanding) outside of minor references, some of the filler is blatantly ignored for later establishments of things (Hell), Xenoverse said every movie is in an alternate timeline, for which we can assume any filler from the shows before Super is also in an alternate timeline, & other things. It's basically what Toriyama wrote, writes, & informs people of in interviews that's deemed canon. Otherwise, it's disregarded as filler or what-ifs.
Which is why Kakarot adapts some filler ideas for side quests in the game (for gameplay purposes, since there's original stuff for that too) & references things Toriyama thought of after the manga ended that weren't mentioned or referenced in the original manga. And, yes, Toriyama retcons ARE different from the retcons that spring from anime-only filler. Anime filler is only made to pad out time because the anime staff need to not catch up to the manga that can be readily ignored when convenient to keep up with the manga's way of establishing things. Unless you're the anime staff writing Z, in which case you still have the previous version of Hell, even when Piccolo established in dialogue what Hell was in the Buu Saga & you keep it in Kai: TFC for no reason, which has continuity problems with Res. F & Super. Thinking DB has a bendable continuity like some people in this fandom do is incredibly stupid, as that's not the official stance of the people behind the franchise in Japan.
I've made this argument before & it never gets better for me to explain.

[Grimlock]

https://i.imgur.com/6nFO6dX.jpg
https://mobile.twitter.com/Herms98/stat ... 7927271424

Like it or not, there is canon in Dragon Ball and it is Toriyama’s story.
The fact you prefer other official products doesn’t make them part of the main continuity.

Even if I were to take that wall's claim, that's just for Dragon Ball Super. I still don't see anything regarding all the other works out there. And even then, which version are we talking about here? Movies, anime or manga? Going by what I can see, am I to assume the canonical version is the manga? Why? What makes me take Toyotaro's version of Battle of Gods and Resurrection 'F' over the movies that came directly from Toriyama?

Now, in a franchise that have the "alternate dimension" concept (established by the author himself), what stops the works that don't happen in the "main continuity" from being canonical? In this sense, what "it is canonical/isn't canonical" even mean? Because even if characters from different dimensions meet each other, that won't mean the events from the other dimension happened in the "main continuity". And what about Dragon Ball Online? I see you seemingly consider it canonical (great! You're in for the greatest content post-manga) but if we really are to take just Toriyama's story, then why a lot of people still don't (and sometimes even refuse to) acknowledge it like you do? Why there's no contest over one thing, but there is for another?

What I prefer or not is irrelevant, I merely stand by what it is, and what it is right now is that there's no canon established. A single claim by a wall regarding just one material won't change the whole thing, as it doesn't clarify the status of all the other works (hell, it doesn't even clarify for its own thing, hence my questions in the first paragraph).

If we look at every piece of DB media produced since 2009, it's clear the manga is what Toei, Shueisha, & Toriyama are dictating as the canon. Nothing takes any of the filler of the Z anime into account (Kai: TFC keeping in more filler than it should've, including the Hell filler, which has a discontinuity with the first 98 episodes since they didn't show Hell, notwithstanding) outside of minor references, some of the filler is blatantly ignored for later establishments of things (Hell), Xenoverse said every movie is in an alternate timeline, for which we can assume any filler from the shows before Super is also in an alternate timeline, & other things. It's basically what Toriyama wrote, writes, & informs people of in interviews that's deemed canon. Otherwise, it's disregarded as filler or what-ifs.

You may want to rewatch Dragon Ball Super. Not that I do watch that terrible show, but I surprisingly remember it having a lot of filler content from Dragon Ball Z, from Gregory's appearance to that Ginyu/frog thing. The only work that didn't take any filler was Dragon Ball Online. But that's all besides the point, of course. I'm not questioning the validity of the original manga, I'm questioning all the other works besides it.

[emperior]

https://i.imgur.com/6nFO6dX.jpg
https://mobile.twitter.com/Herms98/stat ... 7927271424

Like it or not, there is canon in Dragon Ball and it is Toriyama’s story.
The fact you prefer other official products doesn’t make them part of the main continuity.

Even if I were to take that wall's claim, that's just for Dragon Ball Super. I still don't see anything regarding all the other works out there. And even then, which version are we talking about here? Movies, anime or manga? Going by what I can see, am I to assume the canonical version is the manga? Why? What makes me take Toyotaro's version of Battle of Gods and Resurrection 'F' over the movies that came directly from Toriyama?

Now, in a franchise that have the "alternate dimension" concept established by the author himself, what stops the works that don't happen in the "main continuity" from being canonical? In this sense, what "it is canonical/isn't canonical" even mean? Because even if characters from different dimensions meet each other, that won't mean the events from the other dimension happened in the "main continuity". And what about Dragon Ball Online? I see you seemingly consider it canonical (great! You're in for the greatest content post-manga) but if we really are to take just Toriyama's story, then why a lot of people still don't acknowledge it like you do? Why there's no contest over one thing, but there is for another?

What I prefer or not is irrelevant, I merely stand by what it is, and what it is right now is that there's no canon established. A single claim by a wall regarding just one material won't change the whole thing, as it doesn't clarify the status of all the other works (hell, it doesn't even clarify for its own thing, hence my questions in the first paragraph).

The wall supposedly talks about the manga because it has some stuff which is manga-exclusive, like the God of Destruction exhibition match, Zamasu multiplying and Trunks being on par with SS3 Goku in his SS2 form.
But I agree the phrasing is a bit ambiguous so as not to say that only the manga version of Super is canonical.

Either way we have plenty of interviews of Toriyama with Toyotaro in the collected volumes of the manga, while we have none of Toriyama with the anime staff. And Toriyama praised Toyotaro’s depiction of the story.
The fact Super’s manga is the same format as the original manga from Toriyama should make it the logical sequel to it, as it’s not like people reading the manga and then switching to the anime would keep the same experience.
And Toriyama supervising and correcting it would give it some more legitimacy - for example he sketched out rough boards for the U6 tournament gag, and of course he kept Toyotaro’s version of the ring so logically that would mean the egyptian-like ring is the true setting of the tournament.

I understand your reasoning for other works. Unless they clash with the main continuity, they can be canonical for sure. But they will never be referenced in future material written by Toriyama, so I don’t consider them part of the main story because they are not written by Toriyama.
I think you are confusing canonical with official. One story doesn’t have to be canonical to be official. Heck, Yamcha’s manga from Lee is official but it’s in no way canonical that Beerus and Champa play with humans from the real world and resurrect them into characters in the DB world.

About DB online, I consider it because Toriyama was heavily involved with it and modern material, being written by Toriyama, borrows stuff from that game - such as Tenshinan having a Dojo, Mr Satan making movies or, more importantly, the design of the Yardratians seen recently in the manga.
The game is completely dead and it wasn’t even directly mentioned when they talked about the designs of the Yardratians, but considering how Toriyama has a track record of being strangely consistent with things he mentioned in past interviews and stuff that then appears in his story, so for example I think if in his head Goku’s death happens in a final fight with Vegeta then that thing is canonical until it’s contradicted in the story.

For me, ultimately, Dragon Ball is the work of one man (even if he of course had and still has editors and such) and only Toriyama can mess with its story.