The Horrible Decisions of Dimps

[Rory]

I'm gonna drop a bomb here and say I don't dislike Gohan.

FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

[Onikage725]

Oh I agree all the way. The thing I like most about the Tenkaichi games is that they remind me (conceptually) of Legends. That being, create more of a DBZ simulator than an actual fighter. If I want a fighter, I have B3 and the SBs (don't have IW yet) and BL. I love how the attacks change depending on transformations or eras selected in the Tenkaichi games, as opposed to being equipment slots. And as you said, B3 has a problem in that one single Goku has to span all of Z and GT. It works out in story mode, but it makes it hard to create your own all purpose Goku.

That's why I liked breakthroughs. My friends and I eventually just made an "everyone on breakthrough" rule. So everyone gets all of their main stuff at max power. We never felt the transformations unbalanced the game. We had one player who was absolutely sick with Nappa, even if fighting a Cell or Vegeta player, for example. It was also a good way of stopping the Viral Heart Disease/Vaccine (or was it Antidote) player we had, or to discourage the use of Senzu or Freeza's Spaceship.

By that same logic, Yajirobe is banned from our BT play on account of that ridiculous Senzu bean move that he can abuse. I also fought long and hard with my friends to allow customized stats, before I got them to realize that while the values will differ on preference, there is a cap. And overall custom fighters lead to better matches.

[Fuujin]

While it devolved into a shitstorm, I'd say that this is a legitimate topic. Really, you can nitpick every developer's lapses in judgement, even the larger ones like Capcom. Hell, ESPECIALLY Capcom.
Also, I've read something to the effect that Atari pressured Dimps into releasing an unfinished Budokai 3 as Budokai 2, so it's not really their decision. And Budokai 1 gets a free pass as the first in the series, and the cutscenes probably ate up 90% of their resources.

Besides, none of those series hold a candle to the glory that is Hyper Dimension.

This topic makes my head hurt, especially since the majority of your criticisms apply (and in most cases more so) to the Sparking! series

Uh, do they? Do they really? Let's do this by the numbers.

Budokai:
-Pathetically simplistic fighting-engine: While it's no Street Fighter, even BT1's simplistic system cannot compete with the sheer reskin blandness that is Budokai 1. I don't care if you change its name from "Saturday Flurry" to "Awesomeness Explosion" to "Poisonous Croissant", it's still the same rapid-puch move.
-Poor character models: While slightly inferior to the Budokai3 perfection IMO, Sparking models look a lot better than the doll-like Final Bout one's in B1. And at least they got it right the first time.
-Abysmal effects and miscoloured attacks: Dunno. I never paid much atention to stuff like this.
-Wrong forms for characters (Super Saiyajin 2 Trunks; what?): This compaint, I don't really understand. What if forms are a bad thing... why exactly?

Budokai 2:
-Boring, repetitive, uninspired, unfaithfully-plotted board game Story Mode (I know Mike likes it--but that's pretty much it): No board games in Sparking, thankfully.
-Little improvement over the simplistic fighting-engine: Again, I don't agree with the roiginal complaint, much less apply it to Sparking.
-Missing character stages (only Freeza & Cell's final-forms available; lame): I don't think anyone, ever criticized BT for its lack of transformations.
-Superfluous fusions & characters (Tiencha, Gotan, Majin Freeza and Cell, Super Buu absorbing Vegeta, Cell, Freeza), which the time taken to develop and plan could've been used practically: Okay, this one applies to BT as HELL. Appul, anyone?

My only complaint with Budokai 3:
-Questionable character options (SSJ4 Goku & Vegeta transformations to DBZ forms): I don't get it.

Infinite World:
-Hideous opening-cinematic and cutscenes (definitely a far-cry from the beautiful animated ones from the previous Budokai games): Aside from the first one, openings in Sparking WERE quite lacking. Same with cutscenes, but they replaced it with a much more innovative story-telling system in BT3 anyway.
-Little to no improvement over Budokai 3 system: Indeed. The system in BT evolved much faster.
-Tedious, unnecessary and overly-simplistic minigames: Not much minigames in Sparking.
-No Tournament Mode (wtf?): Every BT had tournaments, I think.
-Some characters taken out, same amount of new ones added to total the exact same amount of characters as Budokai 3.: Whereas in BT3, there's like 500 of them (I think they're going to throw some out in the new one, but it's understandable given the jump to next-gen and the need to make new models)

Shin Budokai 2:
-Ridiculous original storyline: No original storylines in BT! Although that doesn't sound much like a plus...
-Seemingly random character additions: APPUL!
-Literally NO improvements or additions to the gameplay mechanics over the first game: See above.

Burst Limit:
-Ugly, amateur menu design: IMO not so with BT, but that's pretty subjective.
-Laughable pseudo customization of drama-piece options for stagnant gameplay pauses: Agreed. Nothing of the sort in Sparking.
-Again, no tournament mode (wtf x2?): See above.
-Measly character roster: 500 CHARACTERS ZOMG
-Goes only to the Cell Saga: BT goes all the way AND BEYOND!
-Decidedly no Downloadable Content: This one also applies to Sparking, but it would be hard to implement on PS2.

So really, the only compaint you can legitimately apply also to Sparking is the superfluous characters stuff.

[Zenkai]

Personaly, I prefer the sparking! games because they feel more like the anime. Though I also like the budokai games too.

[Thanos]

Four pages. Maybe this thread isn't so useless after all?

Anyway, it amuses me to no end that the forum full of do-gooder "SPARKING! AND BUDOKAI ARE SEPARATE SERIES!!! DO NOT COMPARE THEM" elitists are the ones who bring the Sparking! games into this thread. I didn't compare them; you did. In the creation of this topic, I wasn't even thinking about Sparking! (aside from a couple of quick mentions that had nothing to do with comparisons). I just thought Dimps has made an unusually large portion of poor decisions. Those of you saying things like "lol butthert sparking noob" can kiss my ass. You were the ones who brought Sparking! into this, not me. I haven't even said which game series I prefer. Though I do prefer the Sparking! series, if Spike had made as many marketing and popular opinion (meaning, not your own personal preference) mistakes, I would have posted those, irregardless of Dimps.

Also, I found the following image particularly appropriate:

[Rory]

Four pages. Maybe this thread isn't so useless after all?

Also, I found the following image particularly appropriate:
Here's an image I'll insert to lengthen my ePenis

Y'know, I've never really disliekd anybody on this forum. In the 3 years I've been here, it's always been pleasant, even people like Rocketman, he can be a douche, but he does it in such a way, that I laugh. He's genuinley funny, even if he's ready to stomp on everybody's opinion.

This guy on the other hand, is plain annoying.
Yes, you had a sucsessful thread. Yes, we brought Sparking into it, and if you genuinley thought we could have a Budokai bashing through without comparing it to another series, you're fucking insane.
You're also incredibley pompous, and every time you think you have some form of upper hand, will seem to brag about it, hell, you'll even throw in a fucking image about it.
Yeah, I had some fun with this thread, it start off as ridiculous bashing, then turned into a somewhat interesting comparason thread, but you've ruined it now, fuck this thread, I'm gonna discuss more important things. Like the Dragon Box.

[SSJmole]

Four pages. Maybe this thread isn't so useless after all?

Is that 4 pages after you remove the Sparking posts you mentioned, replies like this and your "muwhahaha" post? because by my count removing those gets you like 2 pages and with the size of some posts it doesn't mean a lot of replies.


So if your going to insult the ones who replied about the other series then brag because it's 4 page it's kind kinda redundant as their posts made it 4 pages.

[Wojak]

I would like to say that I own Budokai 1 & Budokai 2.
So I haven't got anything to say about the other games, although I am tempted to buy a PS2 just to play the Tenkaichi games, because of that they look awesome.

But, grahpically I like Budokai 1 the most. Shocked?
I like it's simpleness and it looks like how the manga characters would look like sans the lines, like IRL but drewn at the same time.
I really like the cutscenes, and the story mode is kickass.
And I like that I can play with the USSJ forms, although I think that Goku deserved them too, as he reached those forms in the manga.
A plus is Cell's 1st form and Freeza's 1st form.
BUT, what I hate with all the games are that some characters are awfully designed and have too big eyes or too big heads. It's an eyesore, literally.

Otherwise, all games released are incomplete, there's always something that you would like to add.
(Exceptions : Super Mario Bros. 1 and 3, Megaman 1-3, Megaman X, Sonic 2-3, Age of Empires II and the Legend of Zelda [until Ocarina of Time]).

[Thanos]

Here's an image I'll insert to lengthen my ePenis[

It was a joke, son. Christ.

Y'know, I've never really disliekd anybody on this forum. In the 3 years I've been here, it's always been pleasant, even people like Rocketman, he can be a douche, but he does it in such a way, that I laugh. He's genuinley funny, even if he's ready to stomp on everybody's opinion.

This guy on the other hand, is plain annoying.
Yes, you had a sucsessful thread. Yes, we brought Sparking into it, and if you genuinley thought we could have a Budokai bashing through without comparing it to another series, you're fucking insane.
You're also incredibley pompous, and every time you think you have some form of upper hand, will seem to brag about it, hell, you'll even throw in a fucking image about it.
Yeah, I had some fun with this thread, it start off as ridiculous bashing, then turned into a somewhat interesting comparason thread, but you've ruined it now, fuck this thread, I'm gonna discuss more important things. Like the Dragon Box.

The internet is serious business!


I could give a fuck if you like me or not.


My obvious pompousness was a joke. Learn to take one, friend. You all seem to take major pride in pinning me with your "lol butthurt sparking noob" arguments, so I think I'm allowed at the very least a little joke in retort.

[Pain]

Here's an image I'll insert to lengthen my ePenis[

It was a joke, son. Christ.

I thought it was funny.

[NeptuneKai]

My obvious pompousness was a joke.

Is this kind of the internet equivalent of "I was drunk when I said that"?

[Onikage725]

Everyone, please. I hate to see (arguably) good threads die because people start throwing poo at each other.

[NeptuneKai]

Everyone, please. I hate to see (arguably) good threads die because people start throwing poo at each other.

Me too let me know when you find one!

[Innagadadavida]

Everyone, please. I hate to see (arguably) good threads die because people start throwing poo at each other.

You're a day late to be playing peace maker. The fight was over. This thread needs to be locked, it was a joke from the beginning (apparently)

[Onikage725]

You're a day late to be playing peace maker. The fight was over. This thread needs to be locked, it was a joke from the beginning (apparently)

I wasn't on yesterday. I also don't make assumptions about other posters or their activities (meaning, maybe I'm not the only one out there who is sometimes afk for lengthy periods of time). I hate that assumption on the internet that if one or a handful of people have read something, then the entire internet has instantly read it as well. It's one of the things that kills Wikipedia for me. Someone wants to skullfuck an article, throws up a straw poll, waits a day or two, and tallies the reults of the handful of people who happened to be browsing that topic. Then the change is made and any attempts to fix it are said to be against "consensus." All because maybe some people had school or work, or where away on vacation, or in any way living a life outside of web.

Anyway, one day hardly = necro-post. I won't argue that locking isn't a good idea, based on the above group of posts. But that's why I said what I said.

[Innagadadavida]

I didn't expect you to have posted yesterday. But, if you haven't been here for a while, look at the post date then decide if it's an appropriate time to respond. It's not that hard.

[Thanos]

Here's an image I'll insert to lengthen my ePenis[

It was a joke, son. Christ.

I thought it was funny.

Thanks.


This wasn't a joke thread at all--I just wasn't intending to become a shit-flingin' fest. I just wanted some opinions on why Dimps may have made these bizarre decisions. I've been curious for years, and I thought maybe someone had some insight into these curious choices that they've made.

I also thought I'd mention, I love Budokai 3 to death. It has a special place in my heart. Whether those points of interest had been decided by Dimps or not, my opinion would remain the same, irregardless of those nit-picky things.

I'm pretty disappointed. It's almost as if it's become to the point of religious devotion to this stuff. Not that there's anything wrong with having a passion for Dragon Ball and the video games, but I thought at least a little public discourse couldn't hurt.

[Onikage725]

I didn't expect you to have posted yesterday. But, if you haven't been here for a while, look at the post date then decide if it's an appropriate time to respond. It's not that hard.

Again, considering this is an internet forum, and not a face to face convo or even a series of text messages, I didn't peg a one day difference to mean that the conversation was dead.

I apologize profusely if this opinion in any way offends you. May we move on?

[Vashkey]

Honestly, the Budokai series to me wasnt that great until it hit Budokai 3. And to me, that was the best Dragon Ball game we've had in the US. The combat was fair and pretty easy to grasp yet deep enough for there to be a very distinguishable difference between the pro and the noob. The graphics were pretty impressive.

My only big complaint is that some characters(such as the ssj4 characters) were a bit over powered.

With the Tenkaichi games you have a clunky and far less accessible control scheme. A broken combat system that you could make never ending combos with(sure it took some skill, but unbreakable combos still weren't fun on the receiving end). Even excluding long combos though you could often make due just by using a special and charging while the enemy is down and the time it typically takes them to recover you've already got enough ki to use a special again. Rense and repeat. Gameplay wise, Tenkaichi series made barely any improvements game to game.

The graphics were a major step backward from Budokai 3 with less detailed character models, less smooth animation and a lot of characters shared the exact same animations. This was likely a corner cut due to the needlessly large character roster with characters no one really cared about, would want to play or fought little or not at all in the series such as Babidi, Yajarobi, King Vegeta and Qui.

I will say though that Tenkaichi 2 for the Nintendo Wii was actually, pretty fun. The motion based controls were a blast. A shame that Tenkaichi 3 on the wii some how screwed that up...

In short, I think Budokai 3 was the best we've had so far in every respect. However, I do think that the Tenkaichi series isn't all that bad and I can certainly see the apeal.

[Levlik]

...so am I the only one who think Super DBZ is the best Dragon Ball fighting game there is? The only thing it's missing is a large character selection, but the system is loads better than Budokai's and even more better than the Sparking trilogy, which I find laughable as a fighting game. Budokai I find rather slow and too simplistic, and Sparking is nothing more than a button masher with 100+ versions of one single character.

I think most people hated Super because it resembled a fighting game too much. Yeah, a fighting game is bad because it plays too much like a fighitng game. Worst game ever. Maybe they don't know how to do QCF moves, maybe the system was too complex to get into. I don't know. Sure, Super DBZ is no Super Street Fighter II Turbo but it's still decent as far as Dragon Ball games go.