"(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion of all things related to Dragon Ball video games (console and portable games, arcade versions, etc.) from the entire franchise's history.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
SSB4Hero
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:43 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Heroes" On-Going Discussion Thread

Post by SSB4Hero » Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:44 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:I'm not saying I support the magic clothes. I don't. But sometimes you just have to deal with things, regardless of the logic, or lackthereof. It's not just potential SS4 females either. If we tredge down the path of SS4 Bardock, I'm not sure what they should do with his design. Keeping his battle jacket would look strange, but just having black spandex pants alongside his new, more detailed forearm and shin guards would look just as strange IMO.

Likewise, female SS4 characters, if we were ever to get one will probably suffer the same fate. Whatever they did to censor the breasts of the characters would probably look odd in comparison to the male traits we are already familiar with, but it would almost certainly happen. So we just have to deal with whatever they pick.
You are right my good sir. We just have to wait and see what Dimps or Toei pick as Note, Viola and Forte's Super Saiyan 4 form will look like.

PS: I am still hoping for the whole no body fur thing.

PPS: But first we have to get by both Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue forms before reaching Super Saiyan 4.
When the going gets tough. Combine ideas.

User avatar
Rukura
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1848
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:29 pm
Location: Space Lisbon, Space Portugal

Re: "Dragon Ball Heroes" On-Going Discussion Thread

Post by Rukura » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:43 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:If we tredge down the path of SS4 Bardock, I'm not sure what they should do with his design. Keeping his battle jacket would look strange, but just having black spandex pants alongside his new, more detailed forearm and shin guards would look just as strange IMO.
I'll be damned, that's a really good point. While it would make in-universe sense for his battle jacket to grow, shrink and stay, I'd probably rather keep the forearm guards, boots and spandex (close to Vegeta's leather pants lol) and just have him keep his bandana, the way Broli keeps his necklace. (Aaaaaaand there I go, going against the rule I was defending :lol: )
And it's not like they can afford to lose Bardock's battle jacket because they are totally gonna have a Golden Ape Bardock.
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Likewise, female SS4 characters, if we were ever to get one will probably suffer the same fate. Whatever they did to censor the breasts of the characters would probably look odd in comparison to the male traits we are already familiar with, but it would almost certainly happen. So we just have to deal with whatever they pick.
Yeah, pretty much coming to terms that no in-universe logic can fully survive in Heroes. Here's hoping they can at least make it look good, if nothing else :P
Full checklist of all Xenoverse clothing pieces, accessories and Z-Souls (Many thanks to jrdemr for the Z-Souls sheet): https://www.dropbox.com/s/u8vxc8m0fehev ... .xlsx?dl=0

User avatar
Hot Rod
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:59 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Heroes" On-Going Discussion Thread

Post by Hot Rod » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:51 pm

Speaking of Super Saiyan 4, I think the next one to get is GT Trunks, if I happen to be correct, then he will probably be the first one to achieve while wearing shorts, answering the non-frequently-asked-question if the fur covers the body. :lol:

User avatar
SSB4Hero
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:43 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Heroes" On-Going Discussion Thread

Post by SSB4Hero » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:54 pm

Hot Rod wrote:Speaking of Super Saiyan 4, I think the next one to get is GT Trunks, if I happen to be correct, then he will probably be the first one to achieve while wearing shorts, answering the non-frequently-asked-question if the fur covers the body. :lol:
If he can follow in his father's footsteps of being possess by Baby(making him into a Super Baby Trunks 1 in GDM6 or GDM7) then yeah I can see either GT Trunks or Time Patrol Trunks as a Super Saiyan 4.
When the going gets tough. Combine ideas.

User avatar
Xeogran
I Live Here
Posts: 2037
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:04 am
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Heroes" On-Going Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:52 am

Hot Rod wrote:Speaking of Super Saiyan 4, I think the next one to get is GT Trunks, if I happen to be correct, then he will probably be the first one to achieve while wearing shorts, answering the non-frequently-asked-question if the fur covers the body. :lol:

User avatar
alakazam^
I Live Here
Posts: 2714
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:55 am
Location: Portugal

Re: "Dragon Ball Heroes" On-Going Discussion Thread

Post by alakazam^ » Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:22 am

If they went the God route, I doubt they'll regress to SS4.

User avatar
DNA
I Live Here
Posts: 4227
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:23 pm
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Heroes" On-Going Discussion Thread

Post by DNA » Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:31 am

So as you might know, me and TheDevilsCorpse have been keeping tabs on Heroes since the beginning, him more than me. I've got quite a few lists of Heroes related stuff that makes sense to me. I've been meaning to share this one, for anyone worried that Heroes might run out of content to cover (people where afraid of this maybe a year ago, fools). This is all the arcs/stories that haven't been covered in any way, bear in mind that some arc chunks have at least one or two characters in (I'm looking at you Piccolo Daimao Arc).

Legend of Shen Long
Devil's Castle
21st Tenkaichi Budokai (I know Jackie Chun is in but still)
Baba's Tournament
The Snake Road (Goz, Mez and Princess Snake)
Annoyo Tournament
Assault on Immega
100 Years After

This is without mentioning all the characters and forms that are still missing from already covered stories.
Dragon Box Archives, in search of the best possible releases.

Join our Discord server!

User avatar
Wilderness
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:07 pm
Location: Basildon, Essex, UK
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Heroes" On-Going Discussion Thread

Post by Wilderness » Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:10 am

I could see Trunks being next in line for SSJ4. Considering how many different character entries there are for him already...

Future Trunks (Base, Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 3)
Adolescent Future Trunks (Base, Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan (Power Stressed), Super Saiyan 3)
Xeno Trunks (Base, Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 3)
Young Trunks (Base, Super Saiyan)
GT Trunks (Base, Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 3, Infected Super Saiyan)
Super Baby Trunks

As well as...
Mighty Mask (Base, Super Saiyan)
Fat Gotenks
Gotenks (Base, Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 3)
Adult Gotenks (Base, Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3)
Xeno Gotenks (Base)

And then we have the unplayables...
Xeno Trunks (Super Saiyan 2)
Infect Base form Trunks

I'm surprised we haven't seen a Great Ape Trunks...
"I'm not a bad guy, I am a good guy, who just... hits women with his car."

User avatar
DNA
I Live Here
Posts: 4227
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:23 pm
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Heroes" On-Going Discussion Thread

Post by DNA » Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:31 am

I'm surprised we still don't have 13 year old Boy Trunks from the TV Special. You know, the one who actually fought alongside Gohan? Unlike Future "my-jacket-is-a-different-shade-of-blue-and-that-qualifies-me-as-a-separate-character" Trunks.
Dragon Box Archives, in search of the best possible releases.

Join our Discord server!

User avatar
Wilderness
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:07 pm
Location: Basildon, Essex, UK
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Heroes" On-Going Discussion Thread

Post by Wilderness » Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:36 am

That's a good point. Plus you have a base and Super Saiyan form there!

Thought that jacket thing is ridiculous, I couldn't get my head around it!
"I'm not a bad guy, I am a good guy, who just... hits women with his car."

User avatar
TheDevilsCorpse
Moderator
Posts: 11377
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:34 am
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Heroes" On-Going Discussion Thread

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:42 am

Xeogran wrote:
Hot Rod wrote:Speaking of Super Saiyan 4, I think the next one to get is GT Trunks, if I happen to be correct, then he will probably be the first one to achieve while wearing shorts, answering the non-frequently-asked-question if the fur covers the body. :lol:
Spike doesn't seem to think so :lol:
The recent, "new" SS4 Broli has tears in his pants. So it already showed the answer is yes for Dimps.
alakazam^ wrote:If they went the God route, I doubt they'll regress to SS4.
For the avatars, I think they just went the god route because it's easier on them to not have to worry about whether to make them adults and how to censor the females. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we see more SS4 characters among the regular characters though. It's less work, as shown with Broli and Gohan.
Wilderness wrote:That's a good point. Plus you have a base and Super Saiyan form there!

Thought that jacket thing is ridiculous, I couldn't get my head around it!
It's not really about the jacket, it's a different distinction. The light blue version (known in game as "Future") is the teen/adult Trunks that hadn't gone back in time yet.

Still kind of a dumb waste of space though.
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)

User avatar
SSB4Hero
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:43 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Heroes" On-Going Discussion Thread

Post by SSB4Hero » Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:46 am

alakazam^ wrote:If they went the God route, I doubt they'll regress to SS4.
That is if SSG or SSB is weaker than SS4. Look at how DB Super revealed the power of SSG through Vegeta's battle. His Enraged SS2 state was powerful enough to make Beerus fight at 10% of his power. While Super Saiyan God is only 70% of Beerus' power(7X Enraged SS2 Vegeta). Super Saiyan Blue on the other hand is either 8X or 9X Enraged SS2 Vegeta due to Goku and Vegeta stating that Beerus is still stronger than either one of them(for the sake of the argument lets go with 9X).

In GT however, Base Goku was stronger than his Z Super Saiyan 3 state. Goku states this when he is fighting an opponent who he states is stronger than Majin Buu(we will go with Kid Buu for this one).

Then we get to Baby. After the initial infecting Vegeta, Baby's power surpassed GT Super Saiyan 3 Goku. He since then transformed twice and even when Goku finally stabilized his SS3 state(thanks to his tail) he still couldn't damage Super Baby Vegeta 2 at all. Even Baby states that Goku didn't get any stronger at all(he refers to their first battle while he was in the initial Baby Vegeta form).

Then we skip to Great Ape Baby. It is in the official continuity(Toriyama's) that the Great Ape multiplies a Saiyans max power 10 times(10X). So if Super Baby Vegeta 2 was stronger than GT SS3 Goku then his power was before going Great Ape 400X+(+ because he was stronger) then Base GT Goku. So Great Ape Baby would have been 10X his 400X power which would turn it into 4000X+ Base GT Goku's power.

Now finally we have the Super Saiyan 4 state. Goku at 100% power in this form went against Great Ape Baby who was at 100% of his power as well and defeated Baby. That should tell you that Goku's power at 100% Super Saiyan 4 state is stronger than Great Ape Baby. Which would put his power at 4000X++(double + because he is stronger than GA Baby's 4000X+ power).

Then we have the whole "God Ki vs Mortal Ki" debate. But that doesn't matter because Golden Frieza broke the rule off God Ki because when he transformed the Z fighters were able to still sense him meaning Golden Frieza was still using Mortal Ki but because his mortal Ki was VERY high he was able to damage a being that was using 100% God Ki. Meaning that Mortal Ki can effect God Ki if it is high enough.

So in conclusion Dimps knows that when it comes to actual power that the God forms(SSG and SSB) are weaker than Super Saiyan 4. Which is why they decided to use SSG first and later SSB but then will make the saiyan avatars go Super Saiyan 4 later down the line.

So yeah SS4 > SSG/SSB

You don't have to take my word for it.
When the going gets tough. Combine ideas.

User avatar
TheDevilsCorpse
Moderator
Posts: 11377
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:34 am
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Heroes" On-Going Discussion Thread

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:53 am

I hate to just shit on your entire post, but none of that is right in regards to the game. SS4 is weaker than SSG and SSGSS in Heroes. The latter god transformations offer bigger power boosts via the "Change" mechanic.

Whether it's correct or not in terms of the anime,...well, there's always the fact that SS4 Goku is suggested to be as strong as Vegetto in the GT Special Animanga or whatever. While Goku's God forms are strongly implied to dwarf Vegetto. But I don't really care for actual power debates.
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)

User avatar
SSB4Hero
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:43 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Heroes" On-Going Discussion Thread

Post by SSB4Hero » Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:13 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:I hate to just shit on your entire post, but none of that is right in regards to the game. SS4 is weaker than SSG and SSGSS in Heroes. The latter god transformations offer bigger power boosts via the "Change" mechanic.

Whether it's correct or not in terms of the anime,...well, there's always the fact that SS4 Goku is suggested to be as strong as Vegetto in the GT Special Animanga or whatever. While Goku's God forms are strongly implied to dwarf Vegetto. But I don't really care for actual power debates.
And I also hate to blip on your post too. But if you forgot something important. How Dimps did the SS4 transformation when GOHAN does it. When he powers up at the end it is EXACTLY like the God Level characters. Plus sir, implied is nothing unless they actually DO it. And like I stated above, Golden Frieza was using Mortal Ki. If Mortal Ki < God Ki then SSB Goku(who was using 100% God ki thanks to the Z fighters not being able to sense him) would not have been on the ropes. Toriyama has shown with Resurrection F that even if you have God Ki a person with VERY high Mortal Ki can still hurt you and defeat you.

I know you want to defend the SSG/SSB state but the facts are there sir. And the facts state VERY HIGH Mortal Ki > God Ki.

EDIT: Which if you recall Supreme Kai had God Ki and it was shown in the manga how he affected Piccolo enough for him to quit. Even though Supreme Kai had God Ki he wasn't stronger than a Super Saiyan Goku.
When the going gets tough. Combine ideas.

User avatar
Wilderness
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:07 pm
Location: Basildon, Essex, UK
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Heroes" On-Going Discussion Thread

Post by Wilderness » Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:19 pm

But the ki isn't a relevant factor. There was no debate about if someone God ki can be hurt by someone who doesn't, he was just simply stating that SSJ4 Goku is as strong as Vegetto, whereas SSJG Goku is stronger.

I think you're derailing with the Supreme Kai stuff. It's regardless of ki. By standards, SSJ4 Goku = Vegetto, SSJG Goku > Vegetto.
"I'm not a bad guy, I am a good guy, who just... hits women with his car."

User avatar
DBZGTKOSDH
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12401
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
Location: Greece

Re: "Dragon Ball Heroes" On-Going Discussion Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:24 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:SS4 is weaker than SSG and SSGSS in Heroes. The latter god transformations offer bigger power boosts via the "Change" mechanic.
How do SSG2, SSG3, LSS, Oozaru, and Golden Oozaru compare to SS/2/3/4 in the game? Also, how does SbG compare to SSG?
Last edited by DBZGTKOSDH on Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

User avatar
SSB4Hero
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:43 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Heroes" On-Going Discussion Thread

Post by SSB4Hero » Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:32 pm

Wilderness wrote:But the ki isn't a relevant factor. There was no debate about if someone God ki can be hurt by someone who doesn't, he was just simply stating that SSJ4 Goku is as strong as Vegetto, whereas SSJG Goku is stronger.

I think you're derailing with the Supreme Kai stuff. It's regardless of ki. By standards, SSJ4 Goku = Vegetto, SSJG Goku > Vegetto.
Except their was nothing implying it. Goku was making a guess but the thing is if an Enraged SS2 Vegeta was able to make Beerus use 10% of his power in order to stop him then Vegito(who we haven't seen go beyond a simple Super Saiyan) was a lot stronger than Base Goku and Base Vegeta combined.

But like I stated above Golden Frieza is running on Mortal Ki yet he was beating Goku who was running on God Ki. Yet you forget a simple fact. Comparing Base Goku in BoG before getting God Ki to his SS4 version in GT(after receiving a power boost to be able to fight Shin Shenron) and you will have a difference of that version of Super Saiyan 4 Goku was 16,000X+++ more powerful than Base Goku before getting God Ki. And we know for a fact that Toriyama doesn't follow the "God Ki negates all Mortal Ki" plot. He basically eliminated that plot with Resurrection F.
When the going gets tough. Combine ideas.

User avatar
TheDevilsCorpse
Moderator
Posts: 11377
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:34 am
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Heroes" On-Going Discussion Thread

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:14 pm

You aren't spewing "facts", you're spewing opinions and interpretations that I never asked for in the first place. God Ki is not some special kind of power (as things currently stand), it just can't be sensed. Gods can beat mortals and mortals can beat gods. it just depends on who is stronger. I'm not furthering this debate anymore. It's not the place for it.
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:How do SSG2, SSG3, LSS, Oozaru, and Golden Oozaru compare to SS/2/3/4 in the game? Also, how does SbG compare to SSG?
SS = +2000
Power Stressed = +2500
SS2 = +3000
SS3 = +4000
SS4 = +7000
SSG = +8000
SSGSS = +9000

The Ozaru states don't offer the same types of boosts as the change mechanic. They just let you do a Super Attack every turn.

Broli's mechanics are a mess. In general though, reaching LSS from either base or SS double's that card's standard power. If a mechanic allows him to reach any of his subsequent transformations, the boost depends on the specific Change mechanic being used and/or the form(s) in question. Examples:

Base -> LSS = card power x2
SS -> LSS = card power x2
SS -> SS3 = +4000
SS -> LSS OR SS3 = card power x2 OR x3
SS -> SS3 OR SS4 = +4000 OR +7000
LSS -> SS3 = +4000
LSS -> SS3 -> SS4 = +3000 -> +7000
SS3 -> SS4 = +5000
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)

User avatar
DBZGTKOSDH
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12401
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
Location: Greece

Re: "Dragon Ball Heroes" On-Going Discussion Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:51 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:How do SSG2, SSG3, LSS, Oozaru, and Golden Oozaru compare to SS/2/3/4 in the game? Also, how does SbG compare to SSG?
SS = +2000
Power Stressed = +2500
SS2 = +3000
SS3 = +4000
SS4 = +7000
SSG = +8000
SSGSS = +9000

The Ozaru states don't offer the same types of boosts as the change mechanic. They just let you do a Super Attack every turn.

Broli's mechanics are a mess. In general though, reaching LSS from either base or SS double's that card's standard power. If a mechanic allows him to reach any of his subsequent transformations, the boost depends on the specific Change mechanic being used and/or the form(s) in question. Examples:

Base -> LSS = card power x2
SS -> LSS = card power x2
SS -> SS3 = +4000
SS -> LSS OR SS3 = card power x2 OR x3
SS -> SS3 OR SS4 = +4000 OR +7000
LSS -> SS3 = +4000
LSS -> SS3 -> SS4 = +3000 -> +7000
SS3 -> SS4 = +5000
So SSG2 & SSG3 are treated as the same forms, or SSG2 is the only form in the game? Also, what about Saiyan beyond God?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

User avatar
SSB4Hero
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:43 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Heroes" On-Going Discussion Thread

Post by SSB4Hero » Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:04 pm

Well I am glad that the God Ki vs Mortal Ki is never the issue. But to Dimps and Toei who are the official people behind DB like Toriyama they are giving the avatars SSG instead of SS4. If SS4 is weaker than SSG to Dimps then SS4 would have been the next transformation while SSG and SSB would have been treated as the pinnacle of Saiyan potential. But that isn't the case because Dimps treats SS4 as the end all be all of Saiyan power.

But anyway to continue. Now that Goten has a Time Patrol version of him do any of you believe this version will get SS2 or SS3?
When the going gets tough. Combine ideas.

Post Reply