"(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

[S3 Hendrix]

Interestingly, World Mission outright confirms that Goku Xeno and Vegeta Xeno come from GT's timeline

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMHMMQkhX7Q

Lol this confirms nothing(also not to mention world mission isn’t connected to the arcade game at all) but we see Goku Xeno And Vegeta xeno in game before they put on the time patroller uniforms and it’s Goku in his normal Gi and vegeta in the saiyan armor he’s had since the android area.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

The entire scene is a pretty obvious callback to GT's scene where they fuse against Omega. A fact that Goku Xeno dialogue confirms (the only other time where Vegeta has begged Goku to fuse is on GT).

[Rakurai]

I forgot to mention this earlier. But shouldn't discussion on World Mission story go to the World Mission thread? Unless this is a general SDBH thread, then I guess it's fine since we're one of the few forums that actively discuss characters and stories from DBH/SDBH.

Anyways, that fusion dialogue from World Mission straight up confirms XGoku and XVegeta having experienced the events of GT up to the Shadow Dragons arc, and presumably coming from a GT-based timeline. Since the only instance ever of Vegeta asking/pleading Goku to fuse out of DBZ/GT/Super/SDBH was in GT. It's not the fact that the whole scene is a callback to GT, but the fact that Goku says it's a trip down memory lane that Vegeta is asking to fuse again.

We didn't need World Mission to confirm this but it does serve as further backup. As if this wasn't already obvious but the fact that both the arcade and World Mission have XGoku and XVegeta allude to experiencing GT events just leads to the most obvious conclusion in the room.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Well put.

As for the topic about World Mission, I've always considered this thread as a general SDBH thread.

[S3 Hendrix]

I forgot to mention this earlier. But shouldn't discussion on World Mission story go to the World Mission thread? Unless this is a general SDBH thread, then I guess it's fine since we're one of the few forums that actively discuss characters and stories from DBH/SDBH.

Anyways, that fusion dialogue from World Mission straight up confirms XGoku and XVegeta having experienced the events of GT up to the Shadow Dragons arc, and presumably coming from a GT-based timeline. Since the only instance ever of Vegeta asking/pleading Goku to fuse out of DBZ/GT/Super/SDBH was in GT. It's not the fact that the whole scene is a callback to GT, but the fact that Goku says it's a trip down memory lane that Vegeta is asking to fuse again.

We didn't need World Mission to confirm this but it does serve as further backup. As if this wasn't already obvious but the fact that both the arcade and World Mission have XGoku and XVegeta allude to experiencing GT events just leads to the most obvious conclusion in the room.

Goku: xeno and vegeta xeno in this story also know janemba

[Rakurai]

Goku: xeno and vegeta xeno in this story also know janemba

Okay? GT Goku knows how to use Dragon Fist implying M13 movie is canon to GT. Cooler was seen out of Hell implying M6/7 are canon to GT. The fact that Vegeta knew how to perfectly do the fusion dance with Goku implies that they've done it in the past, which only ever happened in M12 which implies it's canon to GT. Plus GT Gogeta's clothes are based on M12 Gogeta's clothes.

Them knowing about Janemba is not out of realm, especially when GT is implied to be tied to the movies.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Vegeta had to be talked into fusing in M12 and as Rakurai points out, GT already implied the films were canon to it.

[sunsetshimmer]

Interestingly, World Mission outright confirms that Goku Xeno and Vegeta Xeno come from GT's timeline

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMHMMQkhX7Q

Lol this confirms nothing(also not to mention world mission isn’t connected to the arcade game at all) but we see Goku Xeno And Vegeta xeno in game before they put on the time patroller uniforms and it’s Goku in his normal Gi and vegeta in the saiyan armor he’s had since the android area.

Tbh no one said they can't use their old uniforms, right?
DBS Goku and Vegeta also mostly wear their DBZ clothes except for RoF/U6 arcs.
Also, since them wearing their DBZ outfits confirms they are not from GT, then i guess they are from DBZ then, right? It's kinda silly tbh.
Also i think there is no adult GT Goku in DBH anyway and DBZ Budokai 3 actually showed GT Goku and Vegeta looking like in Z and going SSJ4 in their DBZ look.

[S3 Hendrix]

Interestingly, World Mission outright confirms that Goku Xeno and Vegeta Xeno come from GT's timeline

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMHMMQkhX7Q

Lol this confirms nothing(also not to mention world mission isn’t connected to the arcade game at all) but we see Goku Xeno And Vegeta xeno in game before they put on the time patroller uniforms and it’s Goku in his normal Gi and vegeta in the saiyan armor he’s had since the android area.

Tbh no one said they can't use their old uniforms, right?
DBS Goku and Vegeta also mostly wear their DBZ clothes except for RoF/U6 arcs.
Also, since them wearing their DBZ outfits confirms they are not from GT, then i guess they are from DBZ then, right? It's kinda silly tbh.
Also i think there is no adult GT Goku in DBH anyway and DBZ Budokai 3 actually showed GT Goku and Vegeta looking like in Z and going SSJ4 in their DBZ look.

They have EoZ Goku in world mission which is way closer to GT Goku’s clothes. Also I’m not saying they’re not from a GT like timeline but they aren’t GT Goku and GT Vegeta, Goku: xeno And Vegeta: xeno are still from a completely unknown timeline

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

I don't really see much going against the notion of Goku and Vegeta Xeno just being the future versions of their GT counterparts. There's no reason for anything so complicated. The "other dimension" they come from is simply the GT universe but further in the future of that timeline. And the Xeno affixed to their names is simply to differentiate them from their main timeline counterparts. Goku Xeno, Vegeta Xeno, Gohan Xeno and Goten Xeno all experienced GT's events. It's really obvious that they're just the GT cast further in the future.

[Grimlock]

I don't really see much going against the notion of Goku and Vegeta Xeno just being the future versions of their GT counterparts. There's no reason for anything so complicated. The "other dimension" they come from is simply the GT universe but further in the future of that timeline. And the Xeno affixed to their names is simply to differentiate them from their main timeline counterparts. Goku Xeno, Vegeta Xeno, Gohan Xeno and Goten Xeno all experienced GT's events. It's really obvious that they're just the GT cast further in the future.

That is correct. We must keep things as simple as possible until/if further clarification (and because we know Dragon Ball is to be simple) pops up. Thus, the simplest thing here is the fact that the Time Patrollers come from (a point after) Dragon Ball GT. Anything else other that would unnecessarily complicate things, putting too much thought on something that should be easy.

We have evidences and implication enough pointing to that being the case. So just like that "Xeno Goku and god Ki" thing shouldn't be a subject of dicussion at this point, so is this matter.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

As far as the Goku Xeno God ki thing, he says this:

https://imgur.com/5vW4EoZ
"Ahh, the me from the time who borrowed everyone's power and the me now who gained power by training himself..."

I don't really think that would even refer to himself. He's referring to himself from a different timeline when talking about borrowing everyone's power and referring to his own person when talking about training himself. It sounds like he's talking about 2 versions of himself that took different paths to gain power.

So Goku Xeno doesn't have God ki and never went Super Saiyan God. I don't really think there's much differentiation between narratives in the Heroes games. So yeah, Goku Xeno is basically just a future version of GT Goku.

[Noitsnothim]

As far as the Goku Xeno God ki thing, he says this:

https://imgur.com/5vW4EoZ
"Ahh, the me from the time who borrowed everyone's power and the me now who gained power by training himself..."

I don't really think that would even refer to himself. He's referring to himself from a different timeline when talking about borrowing everyone's power and referring to his own person when talking about training himself. It sounds like he's talking about 2 versions of himself that took different paths to gain power.

So Goku Xeno doesn't have God ki and never went Super Saiyan God. I don't really think there's much differentiation between narratives in the Heroes games. So yeah, Goku Xeno is basically just a future version of GT Goku.

Why is it so hard for people to Believe that XGoku & XVegeta don't have God ki? the first time they meet them on the prison planet is possibly their first taste of it and we might be seeing them get God Ki soon

[sunsetshimmer]

As far as the Goku Xeno God ki thing, he says this:

https://imgur.com/5vW4EoZ
"Ahh, the me from the time who borrowed everyone's power and the me now who gained power by training himself..."

I don't really think that would even refer to himself. He's referring to himself from a different timeline when talking about borrowing everyone's power and referring to his own person when talking about training himself. It sounds like he's talking about 2 versions of himself that took different paths to gain power.

So Goku Xeno doesn't have God ki and never went Super Saiyan God. I don't really think there's much differentiation between narratives in the Heroes games. So yeah, Goku Xeno is basically just a future version of GT Goku.

Why is it so hard for people to Believe that XGoku & XVegeta don't have God ki? the first time they meet them on the prison planet is possibly their first taste of it and we might be seeing them get God Ki soon

IIRC It's because geekdom said that Goku Xeno has god ki so they keep repeating that without even questioning his words

[Rakurai]

Why is it so hard for people to Believe that XGoku & XVegeta don't have God ki? the first time they meet them on the prison planet is possibly their first taste of it and we might be seeing them get God Ki soon

Not saying they will never get god ki, it's Heroes so literally anything can happen. But they most likely did not experience god ki sometime in their past before joining the Time Patrol.

[Cipher]

A belated Universe Mission Chapter 7 summary:

Spoiler:

On an unnamed planet in Universe 11, Dyspo reports over intercom that he's successfully lured the enemy into the southwest battle area. Kahseral reports that the evacuation of citizens from the damaged area is complete. Dyspo and Toppo attack Super Saiyan 3 Cumber together, but find themselves in an uphill battle.

Hearts, backed by Oren and Zamasu, warns Cumber not to get too carried away. His tail might come off again, as it still isn't completely attached.

Zamasu wonders where their target is, since neither Toppo nor Dyspo appear to be the "Jiren" they're after. Having heard Jiren's name, Dyspo instinctively thinks of his teammate, allowing Hearts to pick up on the fact that Jiren is on his way toward another planet on duty. Toppo realizes that Hearts can read minds. Oren suggests moving to the planet Jiren is heading toward, but Hearts declines, saying that Jiren should be back soon. Hearts is attacked by Vegeta, who has arrived on the battlefield along with Trunks and the Kaiōshin.

Vegeta transforms into Super Saiyan Blue and continues to attack Hearts, who dodges each move effortlessly. Hearts is surprised that Vegeta followed him all the way from Universe 6, as well as by the fact that Hit isn't dead. Toppo informs Universe 7 of Hearts' mid-reading abilities, and the group is attacked by both Zamasu and Cumber. Trunks and Zamasu share a moment of mutual recognition.

As Trunks, the Kaiōshin, and Toppo are scattered by Zamasu and Cumber's attacks, Dyspo stops Oren from trying to blast the group from above. Oren struggles in battle against Dyspo, frustrated by the fact that his opponent seems to be all speed and no power. Oren leads Dyspo over to Hearts, who, having overheard Oren's thoughts, agrees to switch opponents. Oren thanks him and uses his abilities as an artificial lifeform to begin possessing Vegeta.

Dyspo promises to rescue Vegeta, and orders Hearts to get out of the way. Hearts understands Dyspo's thinking: Even if Hearts is able to "hear" Dyspo's thoughts, with Dyspo's speed, it doesn't mean he'll be able to physically dodge his attacks. However, Hearts dodges Dyspo's kick regardless, affixing a heavy, energy-construct block to his leg and firing several more block-like projectiles at him.

Cumber beats down Toppo, while Trunks falls to a second round of Zamasu's projectiles. Hearts turns his attention to the Kaiōshin and states that as one of the gods, the Kaiōshin is also deserving of death, in order for everyone to be "free." Hearts prepares another block-like projectile.

Goku, dressed in the Great Priest's uniform, teleports in front of Hearts' projectile and swats it away. Zamasu and Cumber both react with anger to Goku's sudden appearance. Goku remarks that sure enough, it looks as if Cumber survived the Prison Planet. Goku is surprised to see Zamasu present as well, but says he can't allow them to run wild any further.

Hearts is amused by Goku's comment that he won't "allow" them to go any further. He grabs the Kaiōshin by the throat and prepares another block, daring Goku to protect his ally. Goku catches Hearts' arm, causing the attack to dissipate. Hearts is surprised by Goku's speed, but more than that, by the fact that he wasn't able to "hear" Goku's thoughts.

Goku attempts to punch Hearts, but Hearts blocks his blow. Zamasu notes with curiosity that Hearts blocked Goku's attack rather than dodging. Goku inhales and powers up into the Ultra Instinct (Omen) state. Cumber rushes toward Goku, but Goku hits him with an uppercut and tosses him aside. Hearts is intrigued by Goku's fighting style, noting that his thoughts are hard to read, and that it's almost as if he's trying to react without thinking at all. However, his method isn't yet perfect. Hearts wonders if he might be able to deal with this unexpected opponent without having to worry after all.

The Oren-possessed Vegeta rushes toward Goku. Goku thinks Vegeta's name, and Hearts notes with satisfaction that Goku has been rattled. Goku blocks the possessed Vegeta's kick, and the Kaiōshin, recognizing Oren's technique from their battles in Universe 6, informs Goku that Vegeta has been possessed. Oren gleefully informs Goku that Vegeta's will and movements are his to control, but Goku merely laughs. He isn't sure things will go so smoothly for Oren.

From within Oren, Vegeta tells him that much should have been obvious, even without someone like Kakarrot telling him. There's no way he'd let himself be controlled by someone like Oren.

Vegeta powers up and forces Oren from his body. Goku compliments Vegeta and Vegeta responds by saying it looks as if Goku did't get blown to bits on the Prison Planet. The two stare down Hearts and the others.

And differences from the arcade game:

Spoiler:

The chapter's events correspond to the Hearts vs. Jiren! Fierce Battles in Universe 11 campaign, the second within the greater Universal Conflict arc story line.

• Trunks and Vegeta encounter Hearts later than they do in the arcade game, where both parties meet immediately upon entering Universe 11.
• Goku engages Cumber and Hearts prior to the Oren-possessed Vegeta in the manga, whereas in the arcade game, he immediately challenges Oren upon arriving.
• Hearts does not threaten the Kaiōshin in the arcade game.

Re: Time Patrollers: They can't come from the future of Dragon Ball GT, because Goku is missing for one-hundred years between the events of the Evil Dragon arc and the epilogue. It does, of course, seem overwhelmingly to be the case that they come from a timeline that mostly resembles GT's, just as the non-Time Patrol arcade-original story lines now feature versions of the charcters that mostly resemble their Super counterparts. But for one reason or another, things can't slot in perfectly as sequels or midquels to either series, so I don't see any reason to get more or less complicated than "from a timeline that mostly resembles ____."

I would actually say the movies, save for 13, are very much out of the realm for inclusion with the events of GT, and that's another thing that puts me in the "mostly resembles" boat. (You can say Vegeta knowing the Fusion Dance hints at 12's inclusion, but ... show me a point in GT's timeline, which includes the Z anime's, where Movie 12 could possibly have happened. Same goes for most of them.) I'm not sure about the game, but in the manga, Gohan: Xeno discusses Slug's ship bringing back memories, and the events of Movie 4 obviously can't line up with the main story as we know it at all.

So indeed, they seem to have lived through events "mostly" lining up with GT, plus whatever (insofar as there seems to be leeway for having them remember events that roughly correspond to the original movies), plus Goku for some reason or another not departing. They basically seem to be amalgams of the pre-revival Toei versions, and I doubt we'll ever get more clarification than that.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Not saying they will never get god ki, it's Heroes so literally anything can happen. But they most likely did not experience god ki sometime in their past before joining the Time Patrol.

To further muddle things up, one of the V-Jump promo cards has SSJ4 Goku Xeno with God Kame Hame Hame Ha as his main attack.

A belated Universe Mission Chapter 7 summary:


Re: Time Patrollers: They can't come from the future of Dragon Ball GT, because Goku is missing for one-hundred years between the events of the Evil Dragon arc and the epilogue. It does, of course, seem overwhelmingly to be the case that they come from a timeline that mostly resembles GT's, just as the non-Time Patrol arcade-original story lines now feature versions of the charcters that mostly resemble their Super counterparts. But for one reason or another, things can't slot in perfectly as sequels or midquels to either series, so I don't see any reason to get more or less complicated than "from a timeline that mostly resembles ____."

Thanks for the summary!

And we're delving here into pointless speculation (it is fun though) but just like Super was placed in the 10 years interim between the end of the Buu Saga and EoZ, they can as easily place Goku Xeno point of origin any point on that 100 years span between the death of Omega and Goku Jr.'s adventures. Therefore, saying he comes from the future of GT or a timeline that mostly resembles it, is both factually correct.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Not saying they will never get god ki, it's Heroes so literally anything can happen. But they most likely did not experience god ki sometime in their past before joining the Time Patrol.

To further muddle things up, one of the V-Jump promo cards has SSJ4 Goku Xeno with God Kame Hame Hame Ha as his main attack.

Since they have power equalling Post TOP SSBs in ssj4, the name means little. They are basically gods in ssj4 (without god ki obviously).

[Rakurai]

Re: Time Patrollers: They can't come from the future of Dragon Ball GT, because Goku is missing for one-hundred years between the events of the Evil Dragon arc and the epilogue. It does, of course, seem overwhelmingly to be the case that they come from a timeline that mostly resembles GT's, just as the non-Time Patrol arcade-original story lines now feature versions of the charcters that mostly resemble their Super counterparts. But for one reason or another, things can't slot in perfectly as sequels or midquels to either series, so I don't see any reason to get more or less complicated than "from a timeline that mostly resembles ____."

I would actually say the movies, save for 13, are very much out of the realm for inclusion with the events of GT, and that's another thing that puts me in the "mostly resembles" boat. (You can say Vegeta knowing the Fusion Dance hints at 12's inclusion, but ... show me a point in GT's timeline, which includes the Z anime's, where Movie 12 could possibly have happened. Same goes for most of them.) I'm not sure about the game, but in the manga, Gohan: Xeno discusses Slug's ship bringing back memories, and the events of Movie 4 obviously can't line up with the main story as we know it at all.

So indeed, they seem to have lived through events "mostly" lining up with GT, plus whatever (insofar as there seems to be leeway for having them remember events that roughly correspond to the original movies), plus Goku for some reason or another not departing. They basically seem to be amalgams of the pre-revival Toei versions, and I doubt we'll ever get more clarification than that.

Yep, you pretty much nailed it. Also to clarify, I never said that XGoku is a future GT Goku, only that he's experienced GT events and lived in a GT-esque timeline. Same thing with XVegeta. Though I still believe that some movie events are canon with GT, and that they just "happened" without really getting into the exact specifics of timeline reconciliation.

I think it would be reasonable to say the Xenos are simply the incarnations of 90s era or pre-revival Toei making their way into modern DB, taking histories and elements from DB/DBZ/GT, both the anime and the movies. Of course, there are a few exceptions like XBardock has Gine as his wife yet his character is obviously derived from the TV special.

Not saying they will never get god ki, it's Heroes so literally anything can happen. But they most likely did not experience god ki sometime in their past before joining the Time Patrol.

To further muddle things up, one of the V-Jump promo cards has SSJ4 Goku Xeno with God Kame Hame Hame Ha as his main attack.

You'll have to provide more context to the V-Jump promo card you're referring to, but in general God Kamehameha can be a special attack in SDBH that allows one to transform. So other non-god characters like Future Gohan, Mira, and Gotenks also have this attack.

[ankokudaishogun]

And differences from the arcade game:

Also, Cumber never lost his tail in the game