MisteryOne wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:05 pm
HeroR wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:01 pm
MisteryOne wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:37 pm
Blue is still considered a differentlas transformation in the sense of not being just a mere power up to God, but rather a fusion of it with SS1. Which makes it even worse that it's a recolor with zero features from God, so you are actually proving my point.
They are not limited by Toriyama but they jave already said before that they are indeed limited even to the point that they gave Bardock SS4 because he couldn't get a God form,. On the other hand, Toriyama literally came up with the concept of Blue, he's actually way more free than the Heroes staff in that sense. Don't get me wrong, they are playing extremely safe lately (we are still missing some very obvious what-ifs) but if Toriyama gets a pass for Blue, there is zero reason to not give this new power up one as well. Excluding bias, of course. There are people on the fandom who hate every concept until it's done or approved by Toriyama, then it's suddenly great.
How does Goku look more like Vegito than like Gogeta? I'm genuiely curious, Vegito's hairstyle is completely different. Like, even more different from Goku's in SS4 than most Super Saiyans. Gogeta on the other hand is, a recolor.
Blue is really not different that Super Saiyan 2 and 3. While merchandises labeled them as 'new forms' they are really just extensions of the original Super Saiyan as Toriyama puts it. Remember, Super Saiyan 2 didn't even have a name originally and was called Grade 4 in guidebooks. Even the names came from Goku simplifying things for Buu since Super Saiyan 2 was called 'a Super Saiyan that surpassed the limits of a Super Saiyan'. Which is also why when Future Trunks saw Super Saiyan 3 for the first time he said something to the extent, 'you found a way to surpassed a Super Saiyan that has already surpassed a Super Saiyan'.
The form doesn't need to look like its previous forms to be the same branch, just look at Freeza's forms. And since Blue is based on Super Saiyan, why would it be based on Super Saiyan God? Especially when Super Saiyan God was based on Goku's base form and Super Saiyan doesn't look like base Goku.
Super Saiyan 4 Bardock happened before Super Saiyan God was passed on to different people. Remember, it was only a few years ago that the Avatars got Super Saiyan God.
And Toriyama didn't 'get a pass' on Blue since people even today calls Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 'lazy' for being a recolor, despite it literally just being Super Saiyan with god ki.
This is Super Saiyan 4 Vegito https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/File ... o_Xeno.png
and https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/File ... SJ4_24.jpg
He basically have Goku's face and body structure, which is why people thought it was Goku when they first saw him until they realized that the color of his eyes were wrong along with the hair. In comparison to Gogeta:
https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/File ... a_Xeno.png
His fur and hair are different colors and his facial structure doesn't looks like Goku's, especially in comparison to Vegito. Which is why Vegito's Super Saiyan 4 looks so uninspiring. Especially when Super Saiyan 4 gives Gogeta wilder hair while Vegito's hair doesn't really changed, which is a little strange when you considered Super Saiyan Gogeta looks like this: https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/File ... a_Xeno.jpg
a) That's pure headcanon, as Toriyama said himself SS2 and SS3 are not completely new power ups, yet he has alsovisto refered specifically to Blue as a form
b) Again you are proving my point: God is not a recolor of Base Goku, despite being based on it. So why Blue (even if we go by your logic of it being based exclusivel on SS1 which again is pure headcanon) is one? As you said, it's supposedly just SS with God Ki. Why doesn't it have thea same, changes as Base with God ki? It isn't consistent at all.
And I have see plenty of people giving the form a pass, specially in these forums. On Twitter, one user from here for example has even defended that "it isn't a recolor because Toriyama also gave them, new clothes" or that "it has different single bang so it sin't a recolor" (despite Toriyama giving that bang to SS1 in modern drawings!) . And e is not the only one. The excuse of it being SS with God ki as you said yourself si used a, lot. Some people keep calling the form lazy but doesn't change the, fact that most of the fandom has already acepted it. And again, my point is that if a form that was so hyped back then (even creating the Beyond God nonsense on Heroes by accident) and that is creat by the author himself is a recolor, how is it any better than this, power up which we don't even know if it will be labeled as a completely different form or not? Using headcanon, it coukd bebe compared to SS2 and 3 too, just a better version of SS4.
Terrible comparison. What have Frieza's forms have to do ith anything? They areare not related to Saiyans and are actually used to supress him. I dunno why you keep bringing random points. Also none of his transformations are a combination of two other ones, not are they recolors.
The Bardock thing still proves they, are not as free as you claimed they are. They can't just do, whatever they want. Whatever new designs they may have wanted tohe give these new power-ups, they needed tohe be approved, unlike Toriyama's which just get adapted or changed by the anime staff (see Blue and UI). It isn't alo coincidence that, theI Trunks who gotcan God is not the "main" one, that they didn't use the Super version of Goku andand Vegeta until theI anime ended or that the ones getting the new forms are, the Xenos and not their GT counterparts, for example. They have no way of knowing if Bardock will eventually show up again in Super as they said, so they can't play around with godly forms and give them to anyone.
Please show me examples of people getting confusing with Vegito and, Goku. He was literally revealed in a special event, and again, unless it's a close up it's impossible to, mistake their hairs. Anyone who takes two seconds tohe compare their designs see theyt are vastly different. Gogeta having different colors doesn't make the design more different in any way either. I can't see the inmages you provided but there is no way you can confuse them if you can fully see their, hairs. They are way more different that Goku and Vegeta's SS forms for example.
Not really when the name of Blue is Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and Goku decides the form as a Super Saiyan God that has gone Super Saiyan to Freeza in Resurrection ‘F’.
It doesn’t have the same color because Toriyama wanted it to be blue to show how calm Goku has become. He literally wrote that in the pamphlet for Resurrection ‘F’. And again, not headcanon when the name of the form says it all and Goku said as much when he decided the form in Resurrection ‘F’.
And I have seen just as many not giving it a pass including very vocal Youtubers. The point is, acting like everyone gave Blue a pass isn’t true when plenty of people calls it a lazy recolor.
Blue wasn’t really hype when it released. In fact, it was mocked for being Super Saiyan with blue hair. I was around when Resurrection ‘F’ released and Blue definitely wasn’t hype outside of Vegeta getting it.
Also, you’re assuming that most people who call this new extension of Super Saiyan 4 lazy are the same people who like Blue. They’re people who don’t like either because they see them as lazy and I have seen people love this Super Saiyan 4 while calling Blue lazy.
I didn’t even bring up Freeza in my second post, so what are you referring to? My Golden Cooler example from my first post? That was me using an example of how Heroes could have done something different with Cooler since Freeza choose the color of his Ultimate form, but instead of doing anything with it, they made it gold like Freeza.
They showed that they have some freedom since they chose to give Trunks Super Saiyan God over Super Saiyan 4 because they couldn’t decide on what Super Saiyan 4 Trunks looks like.
Also, the anime may have ended, but Super still had a movie and a manga. So not sure what you’re trying to say.
You can used Google to find examples of people thinking Vegito looks too much like Goku and thought it was Goku in as you pointed out, in the close up shots which is why I posted those. And color makes a difference so saying something like “ Gogeta having different colors doesn't make the design more different in any way either“, shows someone who didn’t go to art school. Color is part of design, so using different colors is indeed part of the difference along with Gogeta not having Goku’s face structure.