"(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

[Rakurai]

I wanted to ask something about Fu, anyone knows what's his main goal in the game?

To cause a second big bang, which would create a new universe. This was the original purpose of the Universe Seed (thus the name), which the Prison Planet was designed to gather energy for.

I don't believe anything has been said about the original purpose of the Universe Seed, if there was one. At the very least, no connection b/w Fuu & the Universe seed has been established in the arcade yet. Unless something was said about it in the manga or anime? But I don't recall the Universe seed being taken from the Prison Planet in the manga.

At the very least, no such connection was established in the arcade AFAIK.

Who is meant to be stronger out of Hearts and Mechikabura at their strongest then?

Assuming Vegito X isn't that far behind CC Gogeta, I'd say Mechikabura since they couldn't beat him without the Key Sword and having Chronoa seal him away, Vegito would have just killed him if he was strong enough. Even when he dropped out of his forms and reverted back to his old age that appeared to be their only option.

I don't think there is one to be "meant" to be stronger than the other. They are the endgame bosses if you will, their threat level is what ultimately mattered. Mechikaboola was gonna swallow everything into darkness or rule over time or something. Hearts was gonna go after Zeno.

But based on my impression, I would say Mechikaboola was more terrifying & powerful. Mainly cause Hearts w/ all his godslaying Zamasu-erasing might was still taken down by Gogeta Blue, Jiren, & Hit, whereas Mechikaboola absolutely required hax & sealing to take down, w/ literally everyone's combined efforts (Time Patrol, Demigra gang, Demon gods, Toki Toki) to stall. And without the Keysword, they would've been fucked anyhow. They were lucky that XBardock & XKing Vegeta were there to rescue them.

[Scientist Fu]

I don't believe anything has been said about the original purpose of the Universe Seed, if there was one. At the very least, no connection b/w Fuu & the Universe seed has been established in the arcade yet. Unless something was said about it in the manga or anime? But I don't recall the Universe seed being taken from the Prison Planet in the manga.

At the very least, no such connection was established in the arcade AFAIK.

I always thought that the main purpose of the Universe seed was to be able to destroy Zenos. I know that Fu is gathering energy too, but I didn't see any connection between the two either.

[ShadowVezon]

I wanted to ask something about Fu, anyone knows what's his main goal in the game?

To cause a second big bang, which would create a new universe. This was the original purpose of the Universe Seed (thus the name), which the Prison Planet was designed to gather energy for.

I don't believe anything has been said about the original purpose of the Universe Seed, if there was one. At the very least, no connection b/w Fuu & the Universe seed has been established in the arcade yet. Unless something was said about it in the manga or anime? But I don't recall the Universe seed being taken from the Prison Planet in the manga.

At the very least, no such connection was established in the arcade AFAIK.

The introduction on the website (incidentally, what happened to the "riot" the completed Universe Seed was supposed to cause?) explains it.

The “Core Area” made its appearance on the brink of the Prison Planet’s collapse. Within the center of this mysterious, dazzling red area is the “Universe Seed,” which hides enough power to birth a universe. Through his experiment on the Prison Planet, Fu funneled energy into this “Universe Seed" in the hopes of forging a new universe. However, in the end, he couldn’t bring his goal to fruition.

http://www.carddass.com/dbh/sdbh/prison ... y_riot.php
I believe Chapter 6 of the manga also provides the connection.

[S3 Hendrix]

I wanted to ask something about Fu, anyone knows what's his main goal in the game?

To cause a second big bang, which would create a new universe. This was the original purpose of the Universe Seed (thus the name), which the Prison Planet was designed to gather energy for.

I don't believe anything has been said about the original purpose of the Universe Seed, if there was one. At the very least, no connection b/w Fuu & the Universe seed has been established in the arcade yet. Unless something was said about it in the manga or anime? But I don't recall the Universe seed being taken from the Prison Planet in the manga.

At the very least, no such connection was established in the arcade AFAIK.

Who is meant to be stronger out of Hearts and Mechikabura at their strongest then?

Assuming Vegito X isn't that far behind CC Gogeta, I'd say Mechikabura since they couldn't beat him without the Key Sword and having Chronoa seal him away, Vegito would have just killed him if he was strong enough. Even when he dropped out of his forms and reverted back to his old age that appeared to be their only option.

I don't think there is one to be "meant" to be stronger than the other. They are the endgame bosses if you will, their threat level is what ultimately mattered. Mechikaboola was gonna swallow everything into darkness or rule over time or something. Hearts was gonna go after Zeno.

But based on my impression, I would say Mechikaboola was more terrifying & powerful. Mainly cause Hearts w/ all his godslaying Zamasu-erasing might was still taken down by Gogeta Blue, Jiren, & Hit, whereas Mechikaboola absolutely required hax & sealing to take down, w/ literally everyone's combined efforts (Time Patrol, Demigra gang, Demon gods, Toki Toki) to stall. And without the Keysword, they would've been fucked anyhow. They were lucky that XBardock & XKing Vegeta were there to rescue them.

I believe the universe seed was connected to Fu in a special chapter of the manga from jump festa, also in the SDBH ultimate tour guide book, and maybe the UVM website(?)

http://www.carddass.com/dbh/sdbh/prison ... y_riot.php


Yep the website confirms the purpose of the prison planet was to gather energy for the universe seed and the universe seed is meant to create a universe.

[Rakurai]

That info wasn't in the manga, I checked beforehand. But yeah the anime website clears it up.

I've never bothered to click on the intro or any of the other pages on the anime webpage tbh. You really have to dig to find these sorts of things. I'll have to pay more attention to all SDBH news outlets from now on.

[Majin Demigra]

When Ozotto makes a return I hope they make him a real threat like he was in his old game where he used his hax to copy everyone's powers and forms.

[Rakurai]

Flowchart translation of the origins of the Dark Demon realm saga - I plan on covering the rest but perhaps at a later time, since they're short enough.

https://twitter.com/lightning446/status ... 5234099200

I've been more active on Twitter lately, but I will always try to post the content here as well.

--

Couple of interesting things to say about the MC relationships - they mention all the Xenos as being of the same family - e.g. XGoku is XGohan's & XGoten's father, and the like. However, it's the same for FTrunks & CC Vegeta, listing them as son & father, so it can't be taken literally.

2nd thing, XGoten & XTrunks are listed as each other's best friend (親友). So either XTrunks knew Goten from his original timeline, or they simply became best friends very quickly. But I think what we can infer from this is, some bonds transcend spacetime borders. Cheesy shit, I know, but kinda cool.

[Grimlock]

If this is the chart with Trunks and Vegeta, why can't it be taken literally? Both characters are from Dragon Ball Super. That Trunks has Super Saiyan Rage and that Vegeta comes along with a Goku who has Ultra Instinct.

Spoiler:

Alright, let's try this again, I wanna understand this obsession for spoonfeeding and in wanting every character coming from a different timeline. I mean, if you are willing to go as far as to be uncertain about the relation of Vegeta and Trunks when the same chart puts Xeno Goku and his sons as having a direct relationship (without mentioning them being from different timeline), then it's painfully obvious you are trying to avoid/ditch something you personally don't like. Outright ignoring facts and sometimes even clear and obvious indications for the sake of something else. So what is it that you don't like to see and want each of these characters to be from different timelines?

[S3 Hendrix]

If this is the chart with Trunks and Vegeta, why can't it be taken literally? Both characters are from Dragon Ball Super. That Trunks has Super Saiyan Rage and that Vegeta comes along with a Goku who has Ultra Instinct.

Spoiler:

Alright, let's try this again, I wanna understand this obsession for spoonfeeding and in wanting every character coming from a different timeline. I mean, if you are willing to go as far as to be uncertain about the relation of Vegeta and Trunks when the same chart puts Xeno Goku and his sons as having a direct relationship (without mentioning them being from different timeline), then it's painfully obvious you are trying to avoid/ditch something you personally don't like. Outright ignoring facts and sometimes even clear and obvious indications for the sake of something else. So what is it that you don't like to see and want each of these characters to be from different timelines?

Because that’s still future trunks not the same trunks that would specifically be vegeta’s Child from the same timeline as him(Vegeta). You’re arguing a fallacy, yes future trunks is still vegeta’s “Kid” but he isn’t main timeline Vegeta’s son he’s still from the future and went through completely different events than main timeline trunks.


(Also @lightning it’s 100% confirmed even in the arcade lore trunks xeno is future trunks right after he defeats The androids and Cell in his own timeline, so there’s no way goten xeno is from trunks xeno’s timeline.)

[Grimlock]

Yeah, I know. I should have specified that my point is more on the fact that you are always trying to separate each character for a different timeline, even when it's obviously not a Vegeta-Future Trunks case, like the Xeno Goku and his family.

[S3 Hendrix]

Yeah, I know. I should have specified that my point is more on the fact that you are always trying to separate each character for a different timeline, even when it's obviously not a Vegeta-Future Trunks case, like the Xeno Goku and his family.

There’s not enough proof to support they’re all from the same timeline, but there is more proof to support all xeno warriors come from different timelines . 3 of the xeno warriors we know their exact history/past, Trunks xeno is future trunks right after he defeated the androids and Cell in his own timeline, bardock xeno is a version of bardock who went through a mix of BTFOG special and DBminus, and lastly pan: xeno who is a version of Pan during the evil dragon saga when Gogeta GT is fighting super one star dragon who later has her timeline destroyed by mechikabura. I’m not saying it’s impossible for Goku Xeno, Gohan Xeno And goten xeno to be from the same timeline , but there is Literally Nothing to support this claim.

[Grimlock]

"Literally nothing".

[Rakurai]

If this is the chart with Trunks and Vegeta, why can't it be taken literally? Both characters are from Dragon Ball Super. That Trunks has Super Saiyan Rage and that Vegeta comes along with a Goku who has Ultra Instinct.

Spoiler:

Alright, let's try this again, I wanna understand this obsession for spoonfeeding and in wanting every character coming from a different timeline. I mean, if you are willing to go as far as to be uncertain about the relation of Vegeta and Trunks when the same chart puts Xeno Goku and his sons as having a direct relationship (without mentioning them being from different timeline), then it's painfully obvious you are trying to avoid/ditch something you personally don't like. Outright ignoring facts and sometimes even clear and obvious indications for the sake of something else. So what is it that you don't like to see and want each of these characters to be from different timelines?

The issue is that we know both CC Vegeta & FTrunks are from different timelines, & while they may certainly be family biologically-speaking, in a multiverse-timeline sense they're not each other's direct family.

So even tho they are both listed as Father & Son, that doesn't mean that they literally are. And thus this is a piece of evidence to the claim that the family flowchart is a general one, & not an exact one.

Also as S3 Hendrix mentioned, we know where 3 of the Xenos come from. Well, XPan was more ambiguous, but she came in literally right after they left the GT world, & the manga supports this, so that's what I'm also going by.

Now I'm not saying that they have to be from a diff timeline. If they turn out to be, great, but we don't know that for sure. All I said is that the family chart can't be taken literally.

[Majin Demigra]

I wonder what happened to Mechikabura's Tokitoki

[Grimlock]

Well, XPan was more ambiguous, but she came in literally right after they left the GT world, & the manga supports this, so that's what I'm also going by.

Why was it more ambiguous? Have we ever seen a pre-teen Pan elsewhere other than in Dragon Ball GT?

Now I'm not saying that they have to be from a diff timeline. If they turn out to be, great, but we don't know that for sure. All I said is that the family chart can't be taken literally.

Alright, "we don't know for sure". So if isn't from GT, then where do Goku and Vegeta capable of transforming into Super Saiyan 4 come from? If isn't GT, then what other series/timeline we see Goten with Kakashi's hairstyle? If Xeno Goku never fought the Xeno Evil Dragons, then what is he referring to when he says one of them was "stronger than before"?

[Rakurai]

Well, XPan was more ambiguous, but she came in literally right after they left the GT world, & the manga supports this, so that's what I'm also going by.

Why was it more ambiguous? Have we ever seen a pre-teen Pan elsewhere other than in Dragon Ball GT?

Now I'm not saying that they have to be from a diff timeline. If they turn out to be, great, but we don't know that for sure. All I said is that the family chart can't be taken literally.

Alright, "we don't know for sure". So if isn't from GT, then where do Goku and Vegeta capable of transforming into Super Saiyan 4 come from? If isn't GT, then what other series/timeline we see Goten with Kakashi's hairstyle? If Xeno Goku never fought the Xeno Evil Dragons, then what is he referring to when he says one of them was "stronger than before"?

I'm going to leave my Twitter rant on this I made most recently. There was a discussion about this a while back in this thread too, in which I participated, & I'm just stating the most reasonable conclusion based on that discussion.

https://twitter.com/lightning446/status ... 9556321280

As for XPan, I say it is more ambiguous because she just showed up w/o any explanation.

[Grimlock]

It's probably better to answer me directly, also because none of what you said there answers my questions. If anything, you just gave me more:

• What do you mean Goku "became immortalized by Shenron"? He just went away with him somewhere. Not that it makes impossible for Goku to have another adventure or anything, though.

• Goku being tanned is hardly an excuse for anything, all because it's purely an out-universe issue. Yes, it makes no sense for GT Goku to be tanned if he is supposed to be the Goku we know (only that he didn't experience the Dragon Ball Super events). But it was a decision made by external forces with no in-universe logic or explanation applied to the change, so... Unless Toei changed his skin color intentionally with the purpose to set him apart from the anime/manga Goku, as I just said, Goku being tanned it not an excuse.

All my questions from the previous post stand, I would like your explanation as to why the Time Patrollers aren't the future versions of the GT characters despite all the explicit evidences (design, transformation, references) shown.

She may have appeared without an explanation, but surely anyone can see her and quickly recognize her as GT Pan due to her design (which is one of the explicit evidences). In the manga continuity, she was even wearing her GT outfit when she asks for a new one, isn't that right? So, going solely by the arcade, would you be "confused" as to who that little girl who appeared is just because there wasn't an explanation? Would it be "ambiguous" enough to the point of not being possible to recognize her at all to deduce where she came from?

[Rakurai]

It's probably better to answer me directly, also because none of what you said there answers my questions. If anything, you just gave me more:

• What do you mean Goku "became immortalized by Shenron"? He just went away with him somewhere. Not that it makes impossible for Goku to have another adventure or anything, though.

• Goku being tanned is hardly an excuse for anything, all because it's purely an out-universe issue. Yes, it makes no sense for GT Goku to be tanned if he is supposed to be the Goku we know (only that he didn't experience the Dragon Ball Super events). But it was a decision made by external forces with no in-universe logic or explanation applied to the change, so... Unless Toei changed his skin color intentionally with the purpose to set him apart from the anime/manga Goku, as I just said, Goku being tanned it not an excuse.

All my questions from the previous post stand, I would like your explanation as to why the Time Patrollers aren't the future versions of the GT characters despite all the explicit evidences (design, transformation, references) shown.

She may have appeared without an explanation, but surely anyone can see her and quickly recognize her as GT Pan due to her design (which is one of the explicit evidences). In the manga continuity, she was even wearing her GT outfit when she asks for a new one, isn't that right? So, going solely by the arcade, would you be "confused" as to who that little girl who appeared is just because there wasn't an explanation? Would it be "ambiguous" enough to the point of not being possible to recognize her at all to deduce where she came from?

I gave you an answer.

But if you want me to directly answer them, fine.

• What do you mean Goku "became immortalized by Shenron"? He just went away with him somewhere. Not that it makes impossible for Goku to have another adventure or anything, though.

Watch the end of GT or the Goku Jr. TV special. "Immortalized Goku" is just a generalized description, but whatever the case it's clear that he's ageless from that point on.

And somehow I doubt Kaioshin of Time recruited this Goku to the Time Patrol.

• Goku being tanned is hardly an excuse for anything, all because it's purely an out-universe issue. Yes, it makes no sense for GT Goku to be tanned if he is supposed to be the Goku we know (only that he didn't experience the Dragon Ball Super events). But it was a decision made by external forces with no in-universe logic or explanation applied to the change, so... Unless Toei changed his skin color intentionally with the purpose to set him apart from the anime/manga Goku, as I just said, Goku being tanned it not an excuse.

It's a deliberate choice. The actual Goku: GT in DBH/SDBH is tanned. It is a characteristic of GT Goku. Toei deliberately did this for reasons we will never know (tho I suspect it is to match Toriyama's original skin color for Goku), same with Kale also being tan. But you know, ppl in real life get more tan with time as well.

Furthermore, XVegeta also sports his primary hairstyle & not the GT one.

All my questions from the previous post stand, I would like your explanation as to why the Time Patrollers aren't the future versions of the GT characters despite all the explicit evidences (design, transformation, references) shown.

You say explicit evidence & then list design, but I just countered your points.

You act like there is an ultimatum & want an ultimatum answer, but from my perspective there is none. Or at least, not yet. And I'm not the person who's going to back up that stance.

XGoku knew Broly. That is something that distinguishes him apart from GT Goku. Furthermore, the movies take place in their own separate continuities. As to whether GT includes all or some of those continuities is a question that hasn't been answered by anyone w/ the authority to answer that (i.e. somebody from the GT production).

This is, ofc, under the assumption that by GT characters, you mean that they directly come from the GT anime.

She may have appeared without an explanation, but surely anyone can see her and quickly recognize her as GT Pan due to her design (which is one of the explicit evidences). In the manga continuity, she was even wearing her GT outfit when she asks for a new one, isn't that right? So, going solely by the arcade, would you be "confused" as to who that little girl who appeared is just because there wasn't an explanation? Would it be "ambiguous" enough to the point of not being possible to recognize her at all to deduce where she came from?

The manga is the manga, the arcade is the arcade. In the arcade, XPan simply showed up w/o an explanation, despite it being after the GT arc. Don't confuse correlation w/ causation. I'm not entirely against the idea that XPan is from GT, but it remains ambiguous because it's not explicitly stated, nonetheless.

But if you want to use the manga as supportive evidence (which I'm not against, btw), then you also have to acknowledge that according to Pan from the SDBH manga, XVegeta is younger than the one she knows of. Which proves XVegeta is NOT from the GT timeline.

[Rakurai]

I also want to add another thing that's prob important to the Xeno cast:

They are video game characters. They are not, nor do they, have to be defined by any primary continuity. They literally have the ENTIRE DB franchise at the palm of their hands.

We have a Xenoverse Xeno Trunks, an arcade DBH/SDBH XTrunks, a World Mission XTrunks, a UMX XTrunks, a SDBH manga XTrunks. We have at least 3 different Xeno Gokus & 3 Xeno Vegetas.

We have a Xeno Bardock that has the look from the Z TV special, yet Gine as his wife like Minus.

They can be re-adapted into any part of the franchise, w/o having to worry about this or that continuity. They can have the history of just one, or many. What if it turns out that XGoku actually knows Beerus & the other GoDs in the BBM?

This is why I think it's dangerous to say that they are from Super or GT or Budokai 3, etc, & for the developers to specify one. It limits their capacity to be unique from the same characters we've always been following. Multiverse/timeline shenanigans allow for that.

[Noitsnothim]

I also want to add another thing that's prob important to the Xeno cast:

They are video game characters. They are not, nor do they, have to be defined by any primary continuity. They literally have the ENTIRE DB franchise at the palm of their hands.

We have a Xenoverse Xeno Trunks, an arcade DBH/SDBH XTrunks, a World Mission XTrunks, a UMX XTrunks, a SDBH manga XTrunks. We have at least 3 different Xeno Gokus & 3 Xeno Vegetas.

We have a Xeno Bardock that has the look from the Z TV special, yet Gine as his wife like Minus.

They can be re-adapted into any part of the franchise, w/o having to worry about this or that continuity. They can have the history of just one, or many. What if it turns out that XGoku actually knows Beerus & the other GoDs in the BBM?

This is why I think it's dangerous to say that they are from Super or GT or Budokai 3, etc, & for the developers to specify one. It limits their capacity to be unique from the same characters we've always been following. Multiverse/timeline shenanigans allow for that.

Here's a question I have; Are the xeno counterparts weaker or stronger than their real counterparts (Like is xeno Goku stronger than GT goku?) I remember during their battle against fin it showed that Gogeta SS4 from GT was stronger than SS4 xeno gogeta