Sorry guys... but Budokai Tenkaichi is indeed, Budokai 4.

Discussion of all things related to Dragon Ball video games (console and portable games, arcade versions, etc.) from the entire franchise's history.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
El_Diablo
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 492
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:06 pm
Location: UK

Post by El_Diablo » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:08 pm

I, for one, don't think that "Sparking!" is Budokai 4.
Where's the beef?

User avatar
*PINHEAD*
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 814
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:05 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Post by *PINHEAD* » Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:29 pm

In Japan, none of the "Budokai" games were ever called "Budokai." They were just "Dragon Ball Z," "Dragon Ball Z 2," and "Dragon Ball Z 3." The Budokai series is an English name slapped onto the games. With the name "Budokai" added to it, not to mention it's being released in a similar, if not the same fashion, it's obvious that the North American release of "Sparking!" will be added to the "Budokai" franchise. But either way, it doesn't really matter.
I was voted "most unique" and "most likely to become the next existential thinker" in high school.

Demi
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:25 pm
Contact:

Post by Demi » Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:45 pm

Hey guys Sparking isn't Budokai 4 because it isn't called Budokai 4 it's called Sparking. So give up.

User avatar
Pedro The Hutt
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 781
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2004 5:37 pm
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Post by Pedro The Hutt » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:59 pm

Different companies producing it, different games. n.n

User avatar
Vegeta91
Newbie
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:38 am
Location: Bombay, India

Post by Vegeta91 » Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:12 am

In my opinion, the only reason we have "Dragonball Z : Sparking" after "Dragonball Z 3" and "Dragonball Z : Budokai Tenkaichi" after "Dragonball Z Budokai 3" is to express a sense of finality in the series. It's obvious that after this, any new DBZ game will be on a next-gen console.
I believe that this is a subtle way of expressing to the consumer that Tenkaichi/Sparking is 'the big one'.

Another fact to support this claim is how they used CHA LA... as the theme for the first Budokai and are using WE GOTTA POWER as the theme for this one. It's all to express a sense of finality.
My heart is calm. It is quiet and pure. Make no mistake though, it's pure evil.

User avatar
Xyex
I Live Here
Posts: 4978
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 7:15 am
Location: The 7th moon of nowhere, right-side of forever
Contact:

Post by Xyex » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:30 am

You know, this isn't the first time a game franchise has made a different game that's part of the franchise but not really a sequel (at least, they never counted as sequels in my opinion). Look at Mortal Kombat for instance. MK1 - MK3 and then we had Ultimate MK 3 followed by MK4. UMK3 was the fourth in the MK franchise but not in the series. Street Fighter is an even bigger example.

Sparking! is not a sequel to the Budokai games. It's merely a piece of the DBZ fighting game franchise. To call Sparking! a Budokai sequel would be the same as calling Budokai 1 a Hyper Dimension sequel. It's a continuation of a franchise through a new series of games. Different than the previously mentioned examples, however. I guess the easiest way to put it is Sparking! is to the Budokai series what Hyper Dimension was to the Super Butoden series.
Avys ~ DA account ~ Fanfiction ~ Chat Quotes
<Kaboom> I'm just glad that he now sounds more like Invader Zim than Rita Repulsa
<Xyex> Original Freeza never sounded like a chick to me.
<Kaboom> Neither does Rita
<Xyex> Good point.

User avatar
ngnikolaos
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:17 pm
Location: Greece

Post by ngnikolaos » Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:59 am

If MK 5 Deadly Alliance is not the fifth MK, I don't know what the heck it is.

I think youy're wrong. What you say about "games from the same franchise" COULD be said for MK Mythologies, or MK Shaolin Monks. These games, yes, they are not sequels, they're games of the same franshise, or even, from the MK Universe, if you will. But MK Deadly Alliance is a sequel. It's the fifth Mortal Kombat. Just because it became 3D and has gameplay changes doesn't mean it's not a sequel.

Same goes for Tenkaichi. It has undergone many gameplay changes, but the fact that it contains same music clips, and the options to IMPORT characters from Budokai 3, makes it (unofficially) Budokai 4.

Let me give you another example:

Do you consider Final Bout a single game? I do not. For me, DBGT Final Bout is the second part of Ultimate Battle 22. It imports characters from UB22, and it has many similarities in the gameplay, the music (it also has Gokuden remixes, but that's beside the point), and the game options as well (Build-Up mode). It is Ultimate Battle 22 "2".
"Destiny"... people claim by force what they desire, wreak havoc upon others in order to acquire it... and they call it "destiny".

User avatar
Xyex
I Live Here
Posts: 4978
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 7:15 am
Location: The 7th moon of nowhere, right-side of forever
Contact:

Post by Xyex » Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:14 pm

ngnikolaos wrote:If MK 5 Deadly Alliance is not the fifth MK, I don't know what the heck it is.

I think youy're wrong. What you say about "games from the same franchise" COULD be said for MK Mythologies, or MK Shaolin Monks. These games, yes, they are not sequels, they're games of the same franshise, or even, from the MK Universe, if you will. But MK Deadly Alliance is a sequel. It's the fifth Mortal Kombat. Just because it became 3D and has gameplay changes doesn't mean it's not a sequel.
It's Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance. It is not the 5th MK game. Just like MK 4 is not the 4th MK game. And it has nothing to do with game play changes. Game play always changes between games, even in franchises (Shaolin Monks is the ressurection of the Mythologies idea, but a seperate sereis in the same franchise). UMK3 was the 4th MK game. But that's all semantics and technicalities and not even the point I was making. And thus, is not part of this conversation.
Same goes for Tenkaichi. It has undergone many gameplay changes, but the fact that it contains same music clips, and the options to IMPORT characters from Budokai 3, makes it (unofficially) Budokai 4.
The demo contains the same music as the Budokais, we've yet to see the final version (or hear it, rather). On top of that, it was announced VERY early on that, while Spike was creating a new game seperate from the Budokai series (though still part of the DBZ fighting game franchise) it would be borrowing material and concepts from the Budokai titles. This is just common sense, however. When something is done right another game will make use of that element, whether it's related to the original source of this element or not.

By your standards Sparking! is also a sequel to Ultimate Battle 22, Final Bout, Hyper Dimension, etc... Just becaue a game features elements of another does not a sequel make. That would mean that FF10 is a sequel to FF9 which it, obviously, is not.

It's called a franchise. In this case, the DBZ Fighting Game Franchise. Super Butoden all the way up to Sparking! are all a part of this franchise. As I stated previously, Sparking! is merely the next step in the franchise, possibly the start of a new series, possibly a one shot deal like with Hyper Dimension. I'm not sure which came first, UB22 or FB but I've never heard anyone (aside from you) call one the sequel of the other, which by your standards would be the case.

I knew this would be happening though. Atari slapped the Budokai name onto this game to draw in sales easier (why start something new when you can work off the popularity of an existing series?) even though it's not an actual Budokai title.
Last edited by Xyex on Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Avys ~ DA account ~ Fanfiction ~ Chat Quotes
<Kaboom> I'm just glad that he now sounds more like Invader Zim than Rita Repulsa
<Xyex> Original Freeza never sounded like a chick to me.
<Kaboom> Neither does Rita
<Xyex> Good point.

User avatar
Conan the SSJ
I Live Here
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:40 am
Location: Ohio

Post by Conan the SSJ » Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:24 pm

Sagas included in-game transformations, whilst no other DBZ game had previously done that besides the first 3 Budokais, and it imports characters that were in the 3 Budokais, why can't that be an unofficial Budokai 4? If Budokai tenkaichi can be in continuation despite being made by an entirly different company, then by logic you should count Sagas as well.
14 years later

User avatar
ngnikolaos
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:17 pm
Location: Greece

Post by ngnikolaos » Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:15 pm

Xyex wrote:
ngnikolaos wrote:If MK 5 Deadly Alliance is not the fifth MK, I don't know what the heck it is.

I think youy're wrong. What you say about "games from the same franchise" COULD be said for MK Mythologies, or MK Shaolin Monks. These games, yes, they are not sequels, they're games of the same franshise, or even, from the MK Universe, if you will. But MK Deadly Alliance is a sequel. It's the fifth Mortal Kombat. Just because it became 3D and has gameplay changes doesn't mean it's not a sequel.
It's Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance. It is not the 5th MK game. Just like MK 4 is not the 4th MK game. And it has nothing to do with game play changes. Game play always changes between games, even in franchises (Shaolin Monks is the ressurection of the Mythologies idea, but a seperate sereis in the same franchise). UMK3 was the 4th MK game. But that's all semantics and technicalities and not even the point I was making. And thus, is not part of this conversation.
Same goes for Tenkaichi. It has undergone many gameplay changes, but the fact that it contains same music clips, and the options to IMPORT characters from Budokai 3, makes it (unofficially) Budokai 4.
The demo contains the same music as the Budokais, we've yet to see the final version (or hear it, rather). On top of that, it was announced VERY early on that, while Spike was creating a new game seperate from the Budokai series (though still part of the DBZ fighting game franchise) it would be borrowing material and concepts from the Budokai titles. This is just common sense, however. When something is done right another game will make use of that element, whether it's related to the original source of this element or not.

By your standards Sparking! is also a sequel to Ultimate Battle 22, Final Bout, Hyper Dimension, etc... Just becaue a game features elements of another does not a sequel make. That would mean that FF10 is a sequel to FF9 which it, obviously, is not.

It's called a franchise. In this case, the DBZ Fighting Game Franchise. Super Butoden all the way up to Sparking! are all a part of this franchise. As I stated previously, Sparking! is merely the next step in the franchise, possibly the start of a new series, possibly a one shot deal like with Hyper Dimension. I'm not sure which came first, UB22 or FB but I've never heard anyone (aside from you) call one the sequel of the other, which by your standards would be the case.

I knew this would be happening though. Atari slapped the Budokai name onto this game to draw in sales easier (why start something new when you can work off the popularity of an existing series?) even though it's not an actual Budokai title.
So if I understand you correctly, you refer to something as "sequel" only when it has direct link on the scenario or the story right? Like, Lord of the rings 1, 2 and 3. You don't consider Butoden 2 the sequel of Butoden 1, right?
"Destiny"... people claim by force what they desire, wreak havoc upon others in order to acquire it... and they call it "destiny".

User avatar
Xyex
I Live Here
Posts: 4978
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 7:15 am
Location: The 7th moon of nowhere, right-side of forever
Contact:

Post by Xyex » Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:41 pm

So if I understand you correctly, you refer to something as "sequel" only when it has direct link on the scenario or the story right? Like, Lord of the rings 1, 2 and 3. You don't consider Butoden 2 the sequel of Butoden 1, right?
Super Butoden 3 is the sequel to SB2 which is the sequel to SB1, yes, but Hyper Dimension is not the sequel to SB3. That is what you can't seem to grasp. Games can share similarites but unless they are actually connected they are not sequels. Has Sparking! been called DBZ 4 then, yes, it would be part of the Budokai series. HOWEVER, Dimps owns the property known as the Budokai series, Spike has announced that it's making its own game independant of the Budokai series, and the game does not contain the Budokai label (except outside of Japan where Atari is using it to cash in on the money that name makes).

Allow me to make another comparison for you and then maybe you'll understand the problems with your reasoning. By your reasoning, every fighting game is a sequel of the first fighting game, every RPG is the sequel of the first RPG, etc...
Avys ~ DA account ~ Fanfiction ~ Chat Quotes
<Kaboom> I'm just glad that he now sounds more like Invader Zim than Rita Repulsa
<Xyex> Original Freeza never sounded like a chick to me.
<Kaboom> Neither does Rita
<Xyex> Good point.

User avatar
*PINHEAD*
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 814
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:05 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Post by *PINHEAD* » Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:31 pm

It's obviously not a Budokai sequel, since Budokai (as I have already mentioned) is just the name Atari slapped onto DBZ 1-3 to make it a franchise. And by adding Budokai to Sparking's name, it's being released not necessarily as a sequel to the Budokai games, but still in the same franchise. The most logical explanation as to why it's being called Budokai Tenkaichi is that Atari plans for it to be in the Budokai franchise, though not exactly a Budokai 4. Just like the aforementioned Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat games.

So basically, it's not really a sequel to the Budokai games, but Atari's slapping the franchise name onto it anyway.
I was voted "most unique" and "most likely to become the next existential thinker" in high school.

User avatar
ngnikolaos
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:17 pm
Location: Greece

Post by ngnikolaos » Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:39 am

I never said that Hyper Dimension is the sequel to Butoden 3. I do not consider it a sequel for there is no relationship between them at all. Not in graphics, not in music, not in compatibility, nothing.

I do not consider Ultimate MK3 a sequel. Ultimate MK 3 is a re-vamped edition, with more goodies and characters, but it is essentially MK3. Just like SF2 Champion Edition wasn't a sequel; it was a new edition with more characters. It was STILL SF2.

I'll just end my point by saying that I consider compatibility between titles a definite sequel sign. And since there is compatibilty (and more similarities) between B3 and Tenkaichi, I consider Tenkaichi a(n unofficial) sequel.
Different companies producing it, different games
I said it in my first post. This doesn't mean anything. KOTOR I and II are made by different companies.

Anyway, we have different views on the matter and I doubt that we'll see things eye to eye, so there's no real point in continuing this polite debate.
"Destiny"... people claim by force what they desire, wreak havoc upon others in order to acquire it... and they call it "destiny".

Post Reply