Beam struggles ~ Bad game design?

[Insertclevername]

Ever since the 3rd installment of the Budokai series, beam struggles have become a staple to almost every subsequent Dragon Ball (Z) game. This game play mechanic occurs when both fighters initiate an applicable special ki technique at the same time, forcing the player(s) to start aggressively rotating the left analogue stick hard/fast enough for their attack to push through. What am asking is whether or not this is an example of bad game design. On one hand it does a great job of conveying an the actual feeling of being in a struggle; similar to that of an arm wrestling match where one keeps pushing on until the other loses his/her stride. However, it does detract from the real mechanics of the game; coming off more like a gimmicky addition leaving matches feeling segmented and cheap.

What are your thoughts?

[AgitoZ]

Eh, probably. Not like it really matters anyways, the DBZ games were never big technical fighters so there was never a deep fighting system to detract from. And the one game that was technically competent and involved more skill than press a certain combination or sequence of buttons didn't include beam struggles.

Maybe everyone would've thought more harshly of them if they weren't introduced in the same game that include the awful Dragon Rush sequences.

[TheGmGoken]

Every game got a gimmick somehow. So I don't see how it's a bad game design. Just a little feature to make the game be more like dbz. Same thing goes for those Melee clashes on the Budokai series and the Dragon Rush(Rushes with Ki around them) clashes in the Tenkaichi series. Just make the game more DBZ. Not like DBZ games are deep fighting games(Though fans make them more deep than what they're suppose to be).

Though just a few correction. You don't have to fire the ki attacks at the same time and you can rapidly press the buttons(The main 4 buttons. Square, Triangle, Circle, X) not just rotate the sticks.

[Taku128]

I always thought beam struggles killed the pace of a fight, and I think that's why Dimps removed them from Infinite World. It might be true to the show, but dropping what you were doing to wiggle some sticks for several minutes just isn't fun.

[TheGmGoken]

I always thought beam struggles killed the pace of a fight, and I think that's why Dimps removed them from Infinite World. It might be true to the show, but dropping what you were doing to wiggle some sticks for several minutes just isn't fun.

I know you're exaggerating but how long are your clases . Also it never killed the pace of the fight when I play(No matter who I fight). We just get back up and fight at super high speed again. Not that hard to do to be honest. Unless you got slow gamer hands. I mean in Tenkaichi games you have dash. And in Budokai games you double tap the arrow buttons.

[Taku128]

I always thought beam struggles killed the pace of a fight, and I think that's why Dimps removed them from Infinite World. It might be true to the show, but dropping what you were doing to wiggle some sticks for several minutes just isn't fun.

I know you're exaggerating but how long are your clases

Actually I meant to say seconds, whoops. I know I've had beam struggles against the CPU last almost a minute before though. Even when they're just a few seconds they don't really add anything to the gameplay.

[90sDBZ]

It's good for recreating the feel of the show although it's bad for competitive play as it encourages button-mashing. Honestly though I've always liked it (except for in Final Bout, BT1 and even BT2 were they were near impossible to win). The best solution would be an option to turn them off for competitive matches and on for casual play.

[Kamiccolo9]

It's good for recreating the feel of the show although it's bad for competitive play as it encourages button-mashing. Honestly though I've always liked it (except for in Final Bout, BT1 and even BT2 were they were near impossible to win). The best solution would be an option to turn them off for competitive matches and on for casual play.

That's odd. I never had any trouble winning them in Tenkaichi 2, but could never win them in the 3rd game.

[Quebaz]

I like the way Shin Budokai 2 and Burst Limit did it, give most attacks the same HIT Number and thanks to the charge mechanic, the one who gives more hits wins.

[KentalSSJ6]

I love them.

I remember playing my friends in Budokai 3, both of us one hit from death, then going into a beam clash spinning our analog sticks with enough force to rip them out, then celebrating the victory. Its always a fun thing to do for me.

[90sDBZ]

It's good for recreating the feel of the show although it's bad for competitive play as it encourages button-mashing. Honestly though I've always liked it (except for in Final Bout, BT1 and even BT2 were they were near impossible to win). The best solution would be an option to turn them off for competitive matches and on for casual play.

That's odd. I never had any trouble winning them in Tenkaichi 2, but could never win them in the 3rd game.

That is strange. I found them near impossible in BT2 and effortlessly easy in BT3. Do you have them on PS2 or Wii?

[TheGmGoken]

It's good for recreating the feel of the show although it's bad for competitive play as it encourages button-mashing. Honestly though I've always liked it (except for in Final Bout, BT1 and even BT2 were they were near impossible to win). The best solution would be an option to turn them off for competitive matches and on for casual play.

That's odd. I never had any trouble winning them in Tenkaichi 2, but could never win them in the 3rd game.

That is strange. I found them near impossible in BT2 and effortlessly easy in BT3. Do you have them on PS2 or Wii?

Both was easy for me.

[DarkPrince_92]

Tenkaichi Tag and Burst Limit had difficult beam struggles. It was light work in all the other games. I don't think having Beam Struggles is bad game design imo. DBZ fighting games need things to make it stand out as its own thing, so why not Beam stuggles? I'm all for making the DBZ games seem more like the show. But for games like IW, I could see why it was taken out, that game isn't suited for that sort of thing (Even though I was initially upset when I first heard that was being taken out).

[Kamiccolo9]

It's good for recreating the feel of the show although it's bad for competitive play as it encourages button-mashing. Honestly though I've always liked it (except for in Final Bout, BT1 and even BT2 were they were near impossible to win). The best solution would be an option to turn them off for competitive matches and on for casual play.

That's odd. I never had any trouble winning them in Tenkaichi 2, but could never win them in the 3rd game.

That is strange. I found them near impossible in BT2 and effortlessly easy in BT3. Do you have them on PS2 or Wii?

I had both for PS2.

[dbboxkaifan]

I really liked the beam struggles on Budokai 3 because it allowed me to test out its graphical capability and just for the fun of mashing the buttons to win the struggle.

B3 still looks gorgeous to this day and even more with its original score.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

It's something that is apart of the the franchise, and the controls used do a great job of emulating the feeling of a struggle. You generally want to out do your opponent just like Gohan or Cell wanted to do in the show. That by definition is good game design. Is it deep, no but it's not bad game design either.

[The Monkey King]

Beam struggles are hype and fun.

[RocktheDragon]

I always thought that beam struggles should have had an option to be included and taken out whenever one wanted. If you just want to have a completely mindless fight with your opponent (which is most DB fighting games and most scenarios playing a DB game) then beam struggles are totally fun and immensely enjoyable. There is no thought behind them and that's the point, nothing more and nothing less.