"Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion of all things related to Dragon Ball video games (console and portable games, arcade versions, etc.) from the entire franchise's history.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
mute_proxy
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1150
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:09 am
Location: Planet 4032-877

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:51 pm

mahakaishin1991 wrote:
Except it is waaaay more yellow in the top than should be. It would look closer if the undershit was yellow and the top blue
There's already a blue suit. And if you rip off the shirt, it's pretty much it :roll:

User avatar
jeffbr92
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1349
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:49 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by jeffbr92 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:54 pm

Since we are on this Goku & Vegeta hype of DLCs, I can expect the next one to be:

SSJ4 Goku
SSJ4 Vegeta
SSJ4 Gogeta
Power levels are not just big numbers:

by Doctor.

User avatar
supersaiyanZero
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 415
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:10 am

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyanZero » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:53 pm

Bullza wrote:
Simere wrote:it's your position that DBFZ is just about mashing auto combos so it shouldn't matter to you. All characters play the same way when you're just mashing L/M.
Well yeah. I was pretty good at the game and got fairly high in the ranks, like Demon level and that's all I ever really did. Mashing auto combos, using the level 3 attack and using the vanish to get behind the enemy to lead into more auto combos.

Doesn't mean I just want the same few characters over and over. I could be the best or worst player and I would never want that.
First of all, Demon isn't considered a "high" rank. Demon is where you just start playing people who are moderately OK at the game. Second, all character's don't "play the same", and anybody who mashes L/M is going to start getting wrecked starting at even the Supreme Kai level.

You display a gross ignorance of the game and again, your posts in this thread have been nothing but uninformed nonsense that don't contribute to the discussion of this game at all. And this is probably the 10th time you've compared this to Tekken, which is funny because nobody brings up Tekken besides you. And to even begin to compare these games is just..absurd. It's like comparing Marvel Vs Capcom 2 to Tekken 3 at the time. Even though they are in the fighting genre, the games couldn't be more different.

FighterZ is a rich, surprisingly complex fighting game that has taken the genre and EVO by storm. The fact that you were repeatedly wrong about it's success and it does not have the appropriate level of fan service for your tastes does not take away that is enjoyed by many people in competitive and noncompetitive environments and is the best fighter of 2018.

User avatar
Bullza
Banned
Posts: 8621
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:48 am
Location: UK

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:51 pm

supersaiyanZero wrote:First of all, Demon isn't considered a "high" rank. Demon is where you just start playing people who are moderately OK at the game.
Nah Demon Rank is fairly high like I said, not high high but it's up there. The players aren't also just moderately ok, these are people I've seen with hundreds of games worth of experience and having won a good majority of them.
Second, all character's don't "play the same", and anybody who mashes L/M is going to start getting wrecked starting at even the Supreme Kai level.
I never said they played the same. Supreme Kai Rank is also the one below Demon and even when I was button mashing and using the same three techniques over and over I wasn't getting wrecked. Even at Demon Rank I was winning most games.
You display a gross ignorance of the game and again, your posts in this thread have been nothing but uninformed nonsense that don't contribute to the discussion of this game at all.
If it's the truth then it's truth. The DLC has been weak, five out of six characters being Saiyans is repetitive, Base Goku and Base Vegeta are horrendous choices and Bardock is another Base Goku in a different costume.

The story is lousy and repetitive. It's also piss easy, that's a straight fact. The game has three arcs and the first two and a half are that easy that you can (and I have) won games by just mashing triangle whilst watching a YouTube video on my tablet. It's only in the last half of the third arc do you actually have to look at the screen. I never lost a single game throughout. I could count the amount of times a single character was knocked out on one hand.

Playing online I won most matches button mashing triangle so it would do the special move for me, the level 3 special and pressing R2 to dash to your opponent where again you just button mash triangle.

I'm not talking about beating the best players but it's enough for me who had tens of fights to beat people with hundreds of fights no problem. I never even bothered blocking.
And this is probably the 10th time you've compared this to Tekken, which is funny because nobody brings up Tekken besides you.
Because Tekken 7 is the only other fighting game I've played recently and the two are worlds apart. Tekken 7 is a complex fighting game. FighterZ is very simple and limited in comparison.
FighterZ is a rich, surprisingly complex fighting game that has taken the genre and EVO by storm.
[/quote][/quote]

I never said it was bad game. I like the game just fine, it's not that complex though. It's surprisingly complex because usually these anime fighting games are so awful.

User avatar
NintendoBlaze53
Regular
Posts: 567
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:24 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by NintendoBlaze53 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:04 pm

This is the last thing I'll say about the character choices. I believe it was Masahiro Sakurai who commented on how characters are chosen for each new Smash Bros game. First they make a list of the characters they can complete before deadline, the veterans and also the important newcomers, then if they have time left over they'll use that extra time to decide who else they can make with the time left and add those characters. Clones are usually made in this case since the resources are already there, this is how Falco, Toon Link, Dark Pit, Lucina and more made it into Smash. In Smash 4's case Mewtwo was the only DLC character set before the game released, every other DLC character followed was an idea that they didn't have the time for and thus were made for DLC after Smash 4 had already been completed.

What's the point of me saying that? Because in Smash anyway, that's how characters are chosen. There is NO SUCH THING as a character "taking up a spot that should have gone to" for Smash and I imagine FighterZ is the same. Base Goku, Blue Goku, Blue Vegeta and Base Vegeta aren't taking up a space that should have been used for other characters. They can repurpose certain animations and untextured models and thus these characters take less time to develop and are more appealing to make. And we can tell from the character announcement schedule and the already known 4-6 months development time for each character in this game, that these isn't DLC that could have made the base game.
"You should enjoy the little detours. To the fullest. Because that's where you'll find the things more important than what you want." -Ging Freecss

If you care about opinionated/critical analysis and reviews of anime, manga and gaming products, feel free to check out my website. https://otakustance.wordpress.com/

User avatar
Logania
Regular
Posts: 593
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:47 am

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Logania » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:12 pm

I'm surprised you even wanted to go to Demon rank at all, considering how shit Ranked is in this game, where disconnecting has no consequence and everyone ducks higher squares to pick on lower ones.

I want that 530,000BP trophy, but when I got to 300,000 and a pink square, no one accepts me, and those who do usually disconnected on their last guy. I dunno, maybe they'll patch it with the August update that's supposedly happening.
"I can't increase my ability through some kind of noisy transformation the way Frost and you Saiyans do. If I wanna become more lethal, I don't have the luxury of cutting corners, I just have to do it the old-fashioned way.

Combat is craft. What matters most is not raw power, but the skill by which you hone it."

User avatar
Neo-Makaiōshin
I Live Here
Posts: 2010
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:31 pm
Location: Argentina
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:51 pm

Bullza wrote:Because Tekken 7 is the only other fighting game I've played recently and the two are worlds apart. Tekken 7 is a complex fighting game. FighterZ is very simple and limited in comparison.
Based on what exactly? What makes Tekken 7 complex and FighterZ simple & limited?
"The Time of Birth has Come, I Am The Remedy of Eternity.”
“The Time of Crowning has Come, I Am The Begining of Eternity."
"The Time of Parting has Come, I Am Who Lets Go of The World"

User avatar
Jackal puFF
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1671
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:24 pm
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jackal puFF » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:55 pm

Wow so only Android 17 and Cooler left. Please tell me Android 17 will at least get his MIR shirt. I have a feeling he won't

If there's any miracles to add more Characters I hope they add Super Saiyan God Goku and Vegeta. Hell and then add in some Ultra Instinct Goku and Mastered Super Saiyan God Blue. And then add in Super Saiyan God Blue Gogeta. :lol:

Oh and of course we can't forget the new Broli! This game loves to have 'new' characters.

User avatar
jeffbr92
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1349
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:49 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by jeffbr92 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:56 pm

supersaiyanZero wrote:snip
Why you got banned?
Power levels are not just big numbers:

by Doctor.

User avatar
Bullza
Banned
Posts: 8621
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:48 am
Location: UK

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:07 am

Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:Based on what exactly? What makes Tekken 7 complex and FighterZ simple & limited?
There's too much to name but putting it simply...I've never played as Bardock but I could pick him for the first time and play an average player online and I'd win no problem. I've also never played as Geese Howard but if I picked him and I played an average player online I'd be highly unlikely to win.

I wouldn't say the characters in FighterZ all play the same but when compared to Tekken 7 they do. That's because in FighterZ the characters have a tiny command list, 6 or 7 and 90% of the special moves are the same, quarter circle forward or back and R1 or R2. It is nowhere near that simplistic in Tekken 7, characters have dozens of commands and combos.

In FighterZ the general means of play is the same regardless of who you pick, you mash triangle and do a special move with everyone, you can do the level 3 special move with the same command with almost everyone, the same vanish applies to everyone and for the most part the characters have a similar level of speed and strength.

In Tekken 7 you have around 40 characters, all with their own unique fighting style, the range in strength and speed between characters is considerably wider. There's characters like King who is meant for throws, Hwoarang who is meant for kicks, Steve Fox who is meant for punching, some characters have ranged attacks like Devil Jin, Eddy Gordo spins all around the floor, Miguel can do a one hit KO move and so on.

You could be fantastic with one player and terrible with another. That's not the case with FighterZ.

Another thing that's widely different is the defence, in Tekken 7 your attack range, measuring distance, timing, quick front steps, back steps, side steps, parries etc is far more complex. You get periods in matches where neither one attacks because you wait for the right moment and the counter attack. Not so much of a thing in FighterZ because a tap of R2 dashes straight to the other guy to begin a combo or a vanish immediately lands an attack from behind.

Also before anyone mentions it, don't bother bringing up counter arguments referring to pro level players and tactics. What I refer to above is what applies to the average player who make up the vast majority of the player base.

User avatar
Simere
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1464
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:28 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Simere » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:23 am

Bullza wrote:
Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:Based on what exactly? What makes Tekken 7 complex and FighterZ simple & limited?
Also before anyone mentions it, don't bother bringing up counter arguments referring to pro level players and tactics. What I refer to above is what applies to the average player who make up the vast majority of the player base.
Comparing yourself to the average out of all people who bought the game is meaningless. You can use garbage tactics and win against the majority in any game, be it Starcraft, Counter Strike or chess. Compare what works against the base of players actually trying to play the game competitively, the only measure worth talking about, and you'll find your approach of mashing auto combos will get you nowhere.

And by competitively I don't mean professionally. It's an enormous swath of skill between getting your footing in a skill based game and the pro level. A range that this game's ranked system does a terrible job categorizing, by the way. Super Saiyan? Android? Ridiculous. There's no underlying skill rating system at play in the BP system, and most of the early ranks are achievable through time, independent of skill, because of the way the points are distributed for wins and losses(this only changes at the rank you quit at). In something more proper, like an ELO system, you would certainly be ranked far below the average skill level.

Which isn't to say you're wrong about DBFZ being simplistic. Auto combos have very little to do with that, though, and a fighting game is going to have to get a hell of a lot simpler than this before the skill required contracts to the degree you're suggesting. I doubt you can appreciate just how deep a game like Tekken is if these are the kinds of things you're saying about DBFZ.

I pretty much hate this game, by the way.

User avatar
Bullza
Banned
Posts: 8621
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:48 am
Location: UK

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:12 am

Simere wrote:Compare what works against the base of players actually trying to play the game competitively, the only measure worth talking about, and you'll find your approach of mashing auto combos will get you nowhere.
That's exactly what I've been doing, I've played against people with hundreds of wins, people who have won 70% and 80% of their games, people in Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 Rank and it works even when I haven't played nearly as many games. One of the best characters is Hit because at the start of any match you can mash triangle and as soon as it says "Fight" you generally always get the heavy combo going because he can strike a tad faster than the other guy also trying to mash triangle.

Anyway the point is, if you're good with one character, you can easily play as another character you've never played as and you'd do fine. A game or two to figure out if its R1 or R2 to do the special move you want and it's sorted, you can start beating people.

You could never do that with Tekken because each character plays completely differently altogether. It's not the same two moves to do a combo, you actually have to look them up and repeatedly practice them. I'm fantastic with Steve Fox I can bowl over people left and right...but then if I went and picked Alisa or Lucky Chloe I'd hardly beat anyone.

FighterZ isn't anything like that which is good in a way because I can mix it up and just swap to whoever and all I need to do is look at the command list for 15 seconds and then I'm good to go but it does make it overall a bit more repetitive and simple. It's not that simple that it isn't fun but it's pretty straight forward.

User avatar
mute_proxy
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1150
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:09 am
Location: Planet 4032-877

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:08 am

mahakaishin1991 wrote:
Except it is waaaay more yellow in the top than should be. It would look closer if the undershit was yellow and the top blue
Oops, was wrong, it's this

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

User avatar
Luso Saiyan
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1317
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:33 am
Location: Portugal

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Luso Saiyan » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:11 am

It seems the Switch version will have 2v2 and 1v1 modes. Something that should have been available from the start in all platforms... Offline 1v1 in particular was all I wanted.

User avatar
mahakaishin1991
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1658
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:32 am

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mahakaishin1991 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:18 am

mute_proxy wrote:
mahakaishin1991 wrote:
Except it is waaaay more yellow in the top than should be. It would look closer if the undershit was yellow and the top blue
Oops, was wrong, it's this

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Now THAT is something I didnt even think about, that's a neat catch.

Wonder what the other colours vegeta has are for.

Jord
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 836
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:13 am

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jord » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:54 am

Luso Saiyan wrote:It seems the Switch version will have 2v2 and 1v1 modes. Something that should have been available from the start in all platforms... Offline 1v1 in particular was all I wanted.
Let's hope it'll get patched in for the other versions

User avatar
Simere
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1464
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:28 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Simere » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:04 am

Bullza wrote:
Simere wrote:Compare what works against the base of players actually trying to play the game competitively, the only measure worth talking about, and you'll find your approach of mashing auto combos will get you nowhere.
That's exactly what I've been doing, I've played against people with hundreds of wins, people who have won 70% and 80% of their games, people in Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 Rank and it works even when I haven't played nearly as many games. One of the best characters is Hit because at the start of any match you can mash triangle and as soon as it says "Fight" you generally always get the heavy combo going because he can strike a tad faster than the other guy also trying to mash triangle.
Again, rank bears little relationship to skill, especially below Demon. It doesn't tell me anything about how good someone is to hear that they're a Kaioshin. In a typical Elo system I'd estimate these kinds of players would be like 500, 1000 at best.

You're right about execution, but execution is just one component of skill in a fighting game. I can do SSB Goku ToD sparking loops and still can get embarrassed by someone with a superior sense of neutral. The hardest thing isn't knowing how to DP, it's knowing when to DP. Even if the input were a true 623 with no leniency. Playing against an opponent who can read and adapt to what you're doing is where the true difficulty of all fighting games comes from. It doesn't take much skill to recognize someone only hows how to mash auto combo and adjust accordingly.

I actually would say DBFZ characters are too homogenized. Not because of execution barrier of entry, though, and certainly not because of auto combos.

If anyone's here, the stream where we might see Base Goku and Vegeta just started.

User avatar
mute_proxy
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1150
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:09 am
Location: Planet 4032-877

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:08 am


User avatar
IM21
Banned
Posts: 387
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:45 am
Location: Hell

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by IM21 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:59 am

mute_proxy wrote:Trailers for the new DLC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He54CMx6MeY
well, Goku's Kaio-Ken looks interesting

User avatar
Super Saiyan Turlast x4
I Live Here
Posts: 3363
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:38 am

So, the Kaio-Ken looks like a super rather than an install. That's kinda wack.

Outside of that, the intros were the coolest part of the intros to me.
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~

Post Reply