"Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

[Simere]

I actually don't know what's more stupid about this situation:

The fact that this DLC is a thing;
The fact that Xenoverse 2 gets Kefla while we get Base Goku/Vegeta;
The fact that isn't free and we have to pay for Base forms;
The fact that some people are okay with this;
Or the fact that the third version of Goku/Vegeta will come out before the next pack, which will actually feature new characters.

Probably all of them. It's like this franchise doesn't have more characters or something... =)

It's definitely the one where people don't agree with you. Today they accept this, who knows what tomorrow they'll be supporting? Has to be stopped while it still can be.

[Logania]

https://mobile.twitter.com/BandaiNamcoU ... 4170100736

Touché, Bamco US, Touché...

Not even mad, the meme made me chuckle.

[goku the krump dancer]

Rome wasn't built in a day folks. This isn't a race to see which game adds which new character first. Not only is Xenoverse 2 a whole year and half/2 years older but it is still getting support because Bamco understands that we have two Dragon Ball Games that CLEARLY cater to two different audiences.

[Cold Skin]

And what's the problem exactly? Let's try to think a bit, point by point.

"Base Goku and Base Vegeta should have been available from the start".
Why would that be? It's a limited, carefully crafted roster. It's obvious you'd rather make the iconic Super Saiyan form available (see the SNES games giving the same priority because of the same roster limitations) and the most recent Super Saiyan Blue form available as well. The priorities shown here are not the least bit surprising.

"Why even include those base forms? That's dumb, others would have been better".
Just align the Dramatic Finishes and you'll see there's an uncanny missing "saga ending". You can't go without the characters that were the end of an arc, base Goku is iconic in his own right and when Goku is featured anywhere, he's often in his base form with his iconic hair. They were missing precisely because of time constraints and the fact that you had to give priority to the Super Saiyan forms, making only the bases of their model in time.

Goku and Vegeta in those base forms, during their fight against each other, are so iconic that they are referenced again and again, even to the very end of the final DBS episode! Did you really think that people wouldn't want them? They are popular and wanted.

"Then why would we pay for base forms?"
Forms are forms, you're used to pay for a higher transformation, but in a game like Fighterz that tries to make everyone interesting, a lower form is just as interesting. Why wouldn't you pay for the extra work it took to properly shade each frame and carefully craft the gameplay for those characters. Extra work from the developers, extra money asked from you. This is not a correction of a flaw, this is bonus that would have been completely discarded had there not been DLC. Do you really think it should be free or have a price reduction because the bases of a rough model were already done and nothing else? Maybe you want some price reduction for Cooler too because they don't have to pay the announcer to say "Cooler!" since it's already in the data?

"They're just another clone of Goku and Vegeta!"
So what? Welcome to Dragon Ball where Cooler is an alternate Freezer, Gogeta is an alternate Gotenks, Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks is a smaller Super Saiyan 3 Goku, all Super Saiyan look like brothers when transformed, Cell is half-based on Freezer physically, Nail is pretty much a Piccolo with other clothes, etc... And yet, they have their own appeal. Same goes for transformations: base Goku has an appeal that Super Saiyan Goku doesn't have, Super Saiyan 3 has his own appeal, Super Saiyan God is still something else that could be its own character... They play entirely differently just like the original characters in their respective eras. How can't you see that Goku and Vegeta had so much evolutions in their temper and fighting style that they are like different fighters over time? Different fighters in the story, different fighterz in the game. They are too complete to put everything that's interesting into one single appearance for the whole game, as proven by those.

And we're talking about mandatory staples of the story, making only three versions of the characters available, just like you get Ryu and Evil Ryu or Jin and Devil Jin, and those are more based on their untransformed part than Goku and Vegeta will be.
Face it, having your main character(s) having at least two versions of themselves is normal in a fighting game, no matter how limited the roster is. And given the evolution of the story of DB over decades, having a third one for those two is not too much!

"But they waste two slots!"

I think some fighting games offer 4 new characters in a whole year! You get double with this game, so do you really mind if two of them are fully alternative versions that don't even play the same? It's 6 new characters plus 2 alternative versions with brand-new gameplay, if you prefer! You still get more than with any other fighting game!

Conclusion?
The base forms are intersting and worthy to be added in their own right, the fact that they look a bit similar is no problem to see them as their own character from another era, they have their own gameplay, the developers had to complete each animation and create a new gameplay for them and Dramatic Finishes making it all logical to pay them in return, they couldn't have been in the original but the DLC gives them a chance to be added with an expanded roster, they are very popular and represent the climax of a whole arc by themselves (an arc climax that's completely unrepresented in the game otherwise, as seen from the Dramatic Finishes that jump from Krilin VS Nappa to Goku turns Super Saiyan against Freezer), and even if you don't count them as "new characters" we still get more new characters than in other games.

[Logania]

I'm most looking forward to the August patch that focuses on buffing almost everyone, wanting all characters to be at the level of Goku Black/Goku/Adult Gohan/Vegeta which is perfect.

What buffs do you think would make the lower tier characters up to that level? I can think of a few for some characters.

Piccolo:
• Give him a meterless hard knockdown from anywhere and not just the corner. Similar to Tien and his mid-air 236M after a 2H, give Piccolo the same kind of set-up with 214M
• 5S/mid-air 5S/2S has faster start up
• Fully charged Special Beam Cannon is either not blockable or gives blue health the same amount that they would receive in damage if it hit. With how hard it is to pull off the move effectively, you gotta make the reward worth it.
• Damage buff on Light Grenade

Hit:
• 2M has a faster start up. Hit is almost worthless in the air, so make people respect his ground game more, you're just opening yourself for a free counter attack with how bad his 2M is, keep 2L the same speed though.
• 5S is safe when the counter is successful. Reading your opponent to pull it off only to get hurt by the opponent sending out a super or special is ridiculous. It shouldnt go through everything and be invincible like his 236L,H or 236M,H but let you be able to block. Mid-air 5S is great though, keep it like that.

It's mainly stuff off the top of my head, for actual in-depth character changes, I'd have to spend time in training, reading all the moves of characters. You guys have any ideas?

[FoolsGil]

I want a patch that reduces button mashing effectiveness, and a combo breaker move like Blazblue and Skullgirls. I don't care if they even make it deplete your life no regen, as long as they add it.

Also add 1 v 1 and 2 v 2 options

[sintzu]

Today they accept this, who knows what tomorrow they'll be supporting? Has to be stopped while it still can be.

It won't stop until there's some game industry crash.

[RichardKing2]

And what's the problem exactly? Let's try to think a bit, point by point.s.

Ugh. You don't need paragraphs of justification or to try to "debunk" the opposing side, when the opposing side still has a valid point and criticism. It's really this simple

I'm not interested in base form goku and vegeta as DLC

I would rather other characters take the place of base Goku and Vegeta.

Believe me, your post did not just give me a 180 train of thought that lets me think "well damn! Now I really want another goku and vegeta in the roster! How dare I want other characters in place of these guys in the DLC! Yup, this dude is totally right and I was wrong the entire time!" and I imagine the same people who don't like this DLC, still have their opinions and viewpoints unchanged.

I on't like the additions of Base Goku and Vegeta as DLC, when other characters could have taken the slot. But at this point in time, that's just the way it is. Not gonna change my viewpoint, but will deal with it like every other situation that I feel is unfortunate or stupid.

[KayDash]

I on't like the additions of Base Goku and Vegeta as DLC, when other characters could have taken the slot.

You people keep saying that, but are there any actual base for this claim? The facts are pointing to a different direction.

[KayDash]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[NintendoBlaze53]

I on't like the additions of Base Goku and Vegeta as DLC, when other characters could have taken the slot.

You people keep saying that, but are there any actual base for this claim? The facts are pointing to a different direction.

There's no base for the claim. It's been disproves by games like Super Smash Bros and Sakurai's comments on it. Character rosters are chosen very early in the planning stages and priority is given to certain characters first, any characters not finished by deadline are cut or moved to be DLC. This is the industry standard. Get the characters central to stuff like the story done first and then focus on the extras. This is why Hit, Goku Black and Beerus aren't playable in the story mode, because they're characters who were finished after the story mode was complete. People need to understand that most fighting game DLC isn't super elite extra stuff, you're just buying the leftovers.

If we wanna get into the "But the time should have been used for other characters instead of Base Goku and Base Vegeta", numerous people have commented that characters which reuse art and graphical assets take less time to develop and are cheaper. So it is impossible to replace Goku and Vegeta with say Janemba or Gogeta because the work load is completely different.

[Nickolaidas]

I on't like the additions of Base Goku and Vegeta as DLC, when other characters could have taken the slot.

You people keep saying that, but are there any actual base for this claim? The facts are pointing to a different direction.

'Actual base' for this claim? He's saying pretty clearly that the devs decided to put Base Goku and Base Vegeta instead of literally any other character. That's it. There's no proof needed. The devs decided to not put Gero, Janemba, and any other character who didn't make it in order to have 8 Gokus and 3 Vegetas. What kind of 'proof' do you need?

If time constraints were the problem, they could have added one character every two months - big deal. I'd rather wait six more months to get Gero and Janemba rather than wait three months to get Base Goku and Base Vegeta. Now, if Bandai told them that they're not allowed to work on the game for more than 36 months, I get it, but I'm still disappointed. ArcSys and Bandai should've taken under consideration the fact that the fanbase wouldn't be happy with 1/3 of the (already small by 3v3 FG standards) roster being Gokus and Vegetas then PLAN and FUND accordingly.

Simple as that.

My only hope in this whole roster 'fiasco' is the fact that Bandai Namco made fun of those complaints. This means that while they did it comically, they actually acknowledged the issue and they'll probably do something about it in the future.

[KayDash]

I on't like the additions of Base Goku and Vegeta as DLC, when other characters could have taken the slot.

You people keep saying that, but are there any actual base for this claim? The facts are pointing to a different direction.

'Actual base' for this claim? He's saying pretty clearly that the devs decided to put Base Goku and Base Vegeta instead of literally any other character. That's it. There's no proof needed. The devs decided to not put Gero, Janemba, and any other character who didn't make it in order to have 8 Gokus and 3 Vegetas. What kind of 'proof' do you need?

You are basically saying Base Goku and Vegeta are there, because they put them there. That's not an explanation. And it proves nothing.
You know what are the facts? Companies with a much bigger budget then ArcSys (like Capcom backed by Sony, Microsoft, NetherRealm Studios backed by WB) release DLC seasons for the similar type of fighting games with only 6 characters, because that's the optimal way for them of keeping the game alive and still making profit on it.
Considering the fact that making a brand new character from scratch takes more time and therefore more money, and considering how ArcSys adds 6 brand new with this DLC, do you really think that they could have just replaced Base Goku/Vegeta with Android 20 and Janemba for example?
I tell you what they could have been done instead of those two: Nothing. Or a single stage.
I get why people want brand new characters, I want new characters too, who are not already added in some form, and I agree that would be the most ideal scenario, but saying that they took away slots from other possible characters is just not true, and ArcSys never confirmed that anywhere, while facts about development time also prove my point. If you don't believe me, and want to do your research, there are many US game fighting game devs out there, they possibly have Twitter too. Ask them why fighting games have head/palette swapped characters.

One more thing that people usually likes to mentoin is that japanese character list with people voting for their favorite characters, and how Base Goku and Vegeta was very popular there, and this is why ArcSys decided to add them.
Well, that list exists, but it came from that early FighterZ "leak" which also mentoined Zarbon and Raditz as S1 DLC, and just like those two characters, it was also bullshit.
That list had only Goku and Vegeta once per character, no seperated SSJ forms and such. And yeah, Goku and Vegeta are popular, duh.

If time constraints were the problem, they could have added one character every two months - big deal

That's what they did. Broly, Bardock, Vegetto, Zamasu, Android 17 and Cooler. That's 6 new characters for a whole year, 1 for every two months.
And I don't get why getting those two extra "clones" is worse, then just getting the 6 brand new.

[RichardKing2]

All those paragraphs, and yet not the intelligence to discern that perhaps I'm talking in regards to the context of "this character would have been better as a DLC character other than base goku and vegeta". Talking not in factual terms, but in preferential terms into characters who I think would have been better. The fact that it even needs to be explained is pathetic. Nickolodias is the only one who got what I meant, while other people are still trying to desperatly pull whatever they can.

And more importantly, neither of you are still able to convince me why I should prefer or like Base saiyans as characters in the DLC. Instead all that happens is you take one statement and play these mental gymnastics and say " DO U HAVE THE PROOFS OR BASIS!". C'mon people, I'm not saying that these characters weren't planned ahead of time. I'm saying base goku and vegeta suck ass as DLC(IMO) choices for characters, and other DB characters would have been better suited for the roster. Stop trying to twist this as if it's some sort of factual statement so you can get some type of edge in some forgettable debate. You can like Base goku and vegeta, but stop trying to invalidate peoples hatred for them as DLC characters.

[KayDash]

All those paragraphs, and yet not the intelligence to discern that perhaps I'm talking in regards to the context of "this character would have been better as a DLC character other than base goku and vegeta". Talking not in factual terms, but in preferential terms into characters who I think would have been better. The fact that it even needs to be explained is pathetic. Nickolodias is the only one who got what I meant, while other people are still trying to desperatly pull whatever they can.

And more importantly, neither of you are still able to convince me why I should prefer or like Base saiyans as characters in the DLC. Instead all that happens is you take one statement and play these mental gymnastics over "hurr durr do you have proof". C'mon people, I'm not saying that these characters weren't planned ahead of time. I'm saying base goku and vegeta suck ass as DLC characters, and other DB characters would have been better suited for the roster. Stop trying to twist this as if it's some sort of factual statement. You can like Base goku and vegeta, but stop trying to invalidate peoples hatred for them as DLC characters.

It's because I didn't intend to convince you that you have to want those characters. Believe me, I wouldn't mind Janemba or Paikuhan or whatever instead of them, and I already acknowledged how other characters would have been a better choice, despite what you just said. But my argument was about how they are not taking slots from other characters, because in Base Goku and Vegeta's dev time they can't even make a single Janemba. Now if you say, that they are taking slots from SSJ2 Adult Gohan, or SSJAnger Trunks whom could work as clone characters too, I agree.
The claims that they wasted resources on these two clones is not true, that's all I wanted to say, and it's all fine to hate them, and don't pay any money for them to Bamco.
However, if you preordered the DLC without the knowledge of what characters are in... Well, there's noone else to blame.

[Nickolaidas]

That's what they did. Broly, Bardock, Vegetto, Zamasu, Android 17 and Cooler. That's 6 new characters for a whole year, 1 for every two months.
And I don't get why getting those two extra "clones" is worse, then just getting the 6 brand new.

No. They didn't. They add 2 characters every 2 months (1 per month). I said 1 character per 2 months in order to have more time to make unique characters.

Again, if Bamco told them 'you have 12 months to work on DLC, not a day longer', ArcSys worked with what time schedules they had, but I still say that Bamco should have estimated that people would want to see other characters instead of yet again Goku and Vegeta and give ArcSys a bigger timeframe to work their game.

Also, it's pretty sad to see this roster of Gokus and Vegetas WHEN THE DEVS THEMSELVES told us on E3 2017 not to expect variations of the same characters and then doing the exact opposite with the two main characters. To be honest, it might have been better to just have 6 DLC characters (omitting Base Goku and Vegeta) in order not to receive negative criticism over the roster selection.

I know I sound as if I'm bashing the game (it's the best DB game ever made, imo) but I wanted the roster to be fair, diversified and not fall under the same pitfall the sparking! and Xenoverse games did. We all know that UI Goku is coming, possibly even Kid Goku, and there is a chance of seeing SSJ3 Goku and SSJ4 Goku - I'm pulling estimations out of my ass, granted, but if it happens it will be insane.

[LightBing]

My theory is that the Base Saiyans were supposed to be in the game from the start, until someone remembered that Super was going on and they had to have the Blue Saiyans in the game. Not to waste their work they simply sold the Base Saiyans as DLC.

I know I sound as if I'm bashing the game (it's the best DB game ever made, imo) but I wanted the roster to be fair, diversified and not fall under the same pitfall the sparking! and Xenoverse games did. We all know that UI Goku is coming, possibly even Kid Goku, and there is a chance of seeing SSJ3 Goku and SSJ4 Goku - I'm pulling estimations out of my ass, granted, but if it happens it will be insane.

I understand where you're coming from, so many characters that could be in the game instead of them. However don't see it as a tendency but an exception, I doubt we'll see anymore Vegeta's in the game and Goku's, only UI Goku has a slim chance.

This is why Hit, Goku Black and Beerus aren't playable in the story mode, because they're characters who were finished after the story mode was complete.

Pretty sure that's because of the timeline of the story and nothing else. It happens before the Zamasu Arc, Hit lives in another Universe and Beerus never interferes.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

I know I sound as if I'm bashing the game (it's the best DB game ever made, imo) but I wanted the roster to be fair, diversified and not fall under the same pitfall the sparking! and Xenoverse games did. We all know that UI Goku is coming, possibly even Kid Goku, and there is a chance of seeing SSJ3 Goku and SSJ4 Goku - I'm pulling estimations out of my ass, granted, but if it happens it will be insane.

But the roster is fair and diversified, each character has distinct moves and mechaniques with different battle application, unlike the Sparking! games where dozen of characters shared the same combos and Supers with no distint applications.

[Dbzfan94]

It legitimately baffles me that so many people on this board are so vehemently against people being unhappy with DLC choices. Some are acting like it's a personal attack on their character that others are annoyed with Base Goku/Vegeta.

I personally think its a dumb choice and wont buy the DLC. No amount of "facts" can change that opinion.

[mute_proxy]

It legitimately baffles me that so many people on this board are so vehemently against people being unhappy with DLC choices. Some are acting like it's a personal attack on their character that others are annoyed with Base Goku/Vegeta.

I personally think its a dumb choice and wont buy the DLC. No amount of "facts" can change that opinion.

We get it, but it's never as easy as "don't want it, don't buy it", people prefer whining their hearts out first, whining easily sparks arguments