"Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion of all things related to Dragon Ball video games (console and portable games, arcade versions, etc.) from the entire franchise's history.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
LightBing
I Live Here
Posts: 3491
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:47 am

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:04 pm

This patch is looking amazing, this is is basically FighterZ 2! Can't wait to try it out.
GT Goku lost his mix after level 3 and spirit bomb does less damage, thank God they nerfed him.

This releases on the 25th ( a day earlier than they said) so full patch notes should come in 4 days.

Kataphrut
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1465
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:12 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kataphrut » Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:52 pm

So they just went and made FighterZ 2 in this patch. Nice!

Kefla looks great, the speed and utility is just as good as it looked in the first trailer. I reckon she's going to be a strong point character.

Not sure how I feel about the DR buff. On the one hand, more mix options for everyone. On the other hand, Go1 struggled to tech them in a local game, how are those of us in online-land playing on ArcSys' shabby netcode going to handle it?

The fact that they gave everybody buffs and comparatively few nerfs is pretty cool, though it does mean the tier lists probably won't change much. Sure GT loses his spirit bomb knockdown, but he's going to benefit hugely from the EX move discount- 236H was broken enough as it is. Bardock, Kid Buu and SS Goku are all going to be even better. I wonder how much teams are actually going to change.

They gave Krillin a real assist (lol that his only buffs were to beans/rocks), Ginyu a real level 3 but couldn't give Jiren a real 5H or 214S that actually works. Unless there's more news, he's likely looking at a bottom tier all his own now.

User avatar
Simere
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1463
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:28 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Simere » Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:33 pm

They increased SS Goku's 2M startup by 4 or 5 frames. The mind boggles. With this change I deem SS Goku the most incomplete "fundamentals character" I've seen in a fighting game...barring craziness in the unreleased/undocumented changes.

User avatar
Neo-Makaiōshin
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:31 pm
Location: Argentina
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:42 pm

Even with gauge discount I don't think EX-moves will see a big boost in usage, the ki gain penalty after using a move that burns gauge is still a thing, EX-moves being more spamable means extending the penalty.
Lore is NOT story, and it never was, and you should stop spreading this nonsense.
Content is NOT substance.
Bunch of characters doing stuff do NOT make an esemble cast.
Secondary characters are secondary, they do NOT deserve or are entitled to having more screen time.
Fandom Lacks Critical Thinking and is Easily Impressionable with Surface Level Content.

User avatar
JulieYBM
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 13149
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:07 pm

I'm a little more of a retro gamergirl so forgive me for, like, totes not gettin' it but...is it normal for the DLC to be so intricate? I feel like this game has basically been given a sequel or two at this point.
She/Her | Cloud Strife is so fuckin' hot oh my gosh

User avatar
Saiga
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8290
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:36 pm
Location: Space Australia

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Saiga » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:13 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:07 pm
I'm a little more of a retro gamergirl so forgive me for, like, totes not gettin' it but...is it normal for the DLC to be so intricate? I feel like this game has basically been given a sequel or two at this point.
This seems pretty big. The latest Guilty Gear had Revelator and Revelator 2 for big gameplay changes, getting these in patches is excellent. Rev and Rev 2 were kind of like expansion DLC/game re-releases, so costly additions.

I'm not even sure there's much to work with for a Fighters sequel when so much has been added as post-launch support or DLC.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!

User avatar
LightBing
I Live Here
Posts: 3491
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:47 am

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:47 am

Simere wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:33 pm
They increased SS Goku's 2M startup by 4 or 5 frames. The mind boggles. With this change I deem SS Goku the most incomplete "fundamentals character" I've seen in a fighting game...barring craziness in the unreleased/undocumented changes.
Where did you saw that? Also what do you mean incomplete? Character's the most used by pros, he's freaking good.
JulieYBM wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:07 pm
I'm a little more of a retro gamergirl so forgive me for, like, totes not gettin' it but...is it normal for the DLC to be so intricate? I feel like this game has basically been given a sequel or two at this point.
As free DLC it's pretty massive, easily one of the biggest free updates for fighting games around. Change as massive as this usually turns into a new "upgraded" paid version of the game.

Kataphrut
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1465
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:12 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kataphrut » Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:57 am

The patch notes are out, albeit in Japanese. Confirmed, the protag 2m has been nerfed, but only for SS Goku. SSB keeps his, and Black's got buffed.

Translations in this person's TL, starting here: https://twitter.com/hc0519/status/12307 ... 93952?s=20

Doesn't list everyone's changes, just a few of the most notable. Looks like Kid Buu, Teen Gohan and GT did get some other nerfs. Some crazy stuff in there- Ginyu's spinning 5H now hits low and reflects ki blasts (yes, really), Krillin's rocks beat superdash (they gave him a boulder!), Android 21 gets sliding knockdown off her grabs, and her candy beam level 3 fills her absorption move slots, and Golden Freeza timer now pauses during sparking. They gave us True Golden Freeza, I am spitting!

User avatar
Cold Skin
I Live Here
Posts: 2275
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:09 pm
Location: France

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Cold Skin » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:11 am

I admire how they go in-depth to refine everything for the whole balance.
I know it's a classic for fighting games to change the number of frames for moves for example and say "this move's start-up takes 3 more frames now", but it seems so precise, so specifically-timed that I admire how the devs must really think hard of how every single bit of change impacts the whole balance.
It must be like walking on eggshells and bringing just the little touch-ups here and there that improve it all without breaking it all, like a fixing fragile construction.

On another subject, I will definately never be anything but a casual player when it comes to fighting games. I know a bit of what those combinations like H214 (just making it up) are supposed to mean in relation to a keyboard, but it will never look like anything else than gibberish that I have to translate to even remotely see what it could mean.
Having arrows and default buttons or names of the attacks would seem clearer to me, and I can feel that it would never get natural or much better, so I'm just not cut out to have a deep, pro vision of a fighting game, it's just not in my blood. This makes pro fights all the more impressive to me when I see what others can do and how they can react in a fast yet very specific way with dozens of variables to consider at every second!

Anyway, I think what I miss with this game is a consensus about what people and pros think of every character overall. There seems to be recurring opinions coming back in the comments when it comes to top-tier characters, qualities and flaws of fighters, but I'm not sure there's a place that states "here is basically the consensus about every single character right now, their strengths, their weaknesses and what kind of player should probably play them, and it's cleary understandable even for beginners and casuals who don't know about the pro scene or the pro details and language".
General opinions on which people agree seem to be floating around but there's no specific place gathering: "this is the current consensus from the whole Fighterz community and how the pro scene reflects it all, updated as time goes by".

Nickolaidas
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1052
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:56 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Nickolaidas » Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:30 pm

Holy crap - everyone says that Krillin's top tier now. Can't wait to see him in action by the pros.

I really want to see what Toki will do with him now.

User avatar
LightBing
I Live Here
Posts: 3491
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:47 am

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:22 pm

Cold Skin wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:11 am
"here is basically the consensus about every single character right now, their strengths, their weaknesses and what kind of player should probably play them, and it's cleary understandable even for beginners and casuals who don't know about the pro scene or the pro details and language".
Bar exceptions, it's really hard to get a consensus. Most pro players in this game go for the easy option, which is why so many characters are underplayed. In my opinion they aren't a good place to look for this information, they just jump bandwagons.

To give an example, #16 was nerfed in Season 1 when he was widely used. After the patch, almost everyone dropped him. Turns out he was still good, so during like 1/2 months the character was a rarity because players don't actually "work". People saw nerfs, called him trash and everyone just went along.

Honestly the best way to learn about the game is playing. You don't need to go full "nerd" with frame data and crap to know how stuff works. You probably know stuff just by experience, x character will beat you if you press a button at a certain time. That's knowledge. People just put that stuff into numbers and terms.

Kataphrut
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1465
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:12 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kataphrut » Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:09 pm

Ok, full patch notes are out. Apparently Bandai said they weren't releasing them in English for another four days, but this absolute hero has gone and done it for us.

Liking those Freeza buffs, I've raved about Golden, but the 2m being easier to confirm after a vanish is awesome too, I still struggle with that.
Cold Skin wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:11 am
I admire how they go in-depth to refine everything for the whole balance.
I know it's a classic for fighting games to change the number of frames for moves for example and say "this move's start-up takes 3 more frames now", but it seems so precise, so specifically-timed that I admire how the devs must really think hard of how every single bit of change impacts the whole balance.
It must be like walking on eggshells and bringing just the little touch-ups here and there that improve it all without breaking it all, like a fixing fragile construction.

On another subject, I will definately never be anything but a casual player when it comes to fighting games. I know a bit of what those combinations like H214 (just making it up) are supposed to mean in relation to a keyboard, but it will never look like anything else than gibberish that I have to translate to even remotely see what it could mean.
Having arrows and default buttons or names of the attacks would seem clearer to me, and I can feel that it would never get natural or much better, so I'm just not cut out to have a deep, pro vision of a fighting game, it's just not in my blood. This makes pro fights all the more impressive to me when I see what others can do and how they can react in a fast yet very specific way with dozens of variables to consider at every second!

Anyway, I think what I miss with this game is a consensus about what people and pros think of every character overall. There seems to be recurring opinions coming back in the comments when it comes to top-tier characters, qualities and flaws of fighters, but I'm not sure there's a place that states "here is basically the consensus about every single character right now, their strengths, their weaknesses and what kind of player should probably play them, and it's cleary understandable even for beginners and casuals who don't know about the pro scene or the pro details and language".
General opinions on which people agree seem to be floating around but there's no specific place gathering: "this is the current consensus from the whole Fighterz community and how the pro scene reflects it all, updated as time goes by".
Funny thing is, my experience with fighting games starts and ends with this game. I've never played any of the old classics, I got into it purely because I like Dragon Ball and loved the look and feel of FighterZ. It's very newcomer-friendly, even the basic autocombos are designed to be fairly effective and look cool to pull off. I've got the hang of numpad notations as well, luckily this game doesn't use half circles as all, so it all looks fairly simple to me. 236 is Goku's overhead punch, 214 is his flying kicks, 236 special is his Kamehameha, that sort of thing.

Last season, the meta became very well-defined and just about every pro player tier-list had the same choices for top and bottom tier. Part of what's so exciting about the new season is it looks like it'll open the door for a lot more people to pick their favourites instead of relying on the accepted good choices.

If you want to get a good rundown on characters, the Dustloop wiki is pretty good (http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php/ ... l_FighterZ). It's got a page on every character, a list of their pros and cons, and a breakdown of all their moves with advice on how to use them. Plus separate pages for frame data and optimal combo if you care about that sort of thing.

User avatar
Cold Skin
I Live Here
Posts: 2275
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:09 pm
Location: France

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Cold Skin » Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:17 pm

^ This database is amazing and is pretty much what I asked for. :shock:

It gives a general intro that is understandable to everyone when it comes to what to think of this character, before going to great pro details with a well-crafted presentation showing lots of pictures! Man, I even found out about moves I didn't even know existed for lots of characters!

It's really amazing, thanks for the link!! 8)

User avatar
Tai Lung
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1393
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:56 pm

I love all those references to anime xd ... and not manga I think we already know which is the most "emblematic" kefla lol

I just hope that the interactions are more creative and her personality is respected not as in xenoverse

I also wait for the dramatic finish of Goku UI Vs Kefla :D

Nickolaidas
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1052
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:56 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Nickolaidas » Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:10 am

Can't wait to see what Tachikawa will be pulling off with Frieza now.

Kataphrut
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1465
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:12 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kataphrut » Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:36 am

The patch went live today. Got to wait another day for early Kefla access, but for now it's a great way to get a feel for the new mechanics. I'm liking Hit's C assist a lot and Baseku's spirit bomb assist is actually pretty cool- free .75 meter gain for nothing, though at the obvious cost of any blockstun or combo extension potential. Freeza buffs are great, kind of wishing the ball assist moved a little slower, it's surprisingly tough to land. Just got to get used to the timing.

The new training mode is something the game should have had from the start, going through a lot of the slightly more advanced mechanics. No character-specific stuff, which is what I was hoping for, but it's nice to have tutorials on IADs, high and low guarding, chaining assists, etc. They even have a whole set of tutorials (by Caulifla of all people) to explain all the season 3 changes. Only thing that sucks about that is you need to do the new Tournament of Power mode (just a glorified random arcade mode) to unlock new tutors. Once you unlock them you can choose them to be your "master" which just makes them commentate on your matches. It sounded cute until I started playing a lobby match and had to listen to Krillin gabbing all over it. They must have recorded a lot of new VO for this season, he even had lines for Kefla.

Already seeing some beastly tech online. Cooler, Broly, Base Goku and Vegeta and Vegetto all look really strong. Very excited for this season.

User avatar
Cold Skin
I Live Here
Posts: 2275
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:09 pm
Location: France

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Cold Skin » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:50 pm

It seems the idea of a new stage was permanently shelved.
While they had it planned for months judging by the space left for an extra stage for half a year, the new interface has completely erased all empty spaces on the stage selection screen, making it all perfectly symetrical like nothing is meant to be added.

Too bad, but given the long time they had planned it and how they finally gave up on it, it seems like creating a stage - which is purely artistic and does not incorporate creating a whole gameplay with it - is actually harder than creating a character with hundreds of variables to take into account gameplay-wise...

There must be complicated things to consider and create that we don't see as players, because I would have thought that you could create at least five new stages in just three months. But just like it would be easy to think that adding costumes is a piece of cake when you don't know about the complications of the way they design each frame of each model, there's probably a good reason why creating a stage is much more complex than we'd think from an external point of view.

EDIT: As far as Tournaments of Power go, I can manage the first three ones. Then suddenly, at the fourth one (infinite sparkings), I get wrecked: the CPU doesn't even let me breathe and combos me to death and it regenerates its health at the speed of light compared to me!

Seriously, his sparking regenerative abilities are ten times faster than mine when I have only one character left even when he has all three characters left! It regenerates a quarter of a gauge in 3 seconds: Talk about unfair.

The difficulty curve is so sudden. You can manage all fights of all three first tournaments, then suddenly it's impossible to beat even the first opponent of the fourth edition, since its awesome sparking is so unfair compared to your poor "barely makes a difference" sparking.
Don't make a variation that gloats about how sparking is infinite giving you new opportunities when it actually gives your opponent a ten-times better sparking, effectively throwing you into unfair fights!

User avatar
Zamasu55
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1770
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:05 pm

They added plenty more dialogues that were missing.

Freeza for example has lines with Broly, Cooler, 17, Jiren, etc.

Wonderful.

User avatar
Super Saiyan Turlast x4
I Live Here
Posts: 3352
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:41 pm

Thought I was trippin when I saw those new Freeza lines.

That is dope.
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~

User avatar
Zamasu55
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1770
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball FighterZ" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:14 pm

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:41 pm
Thought I was trippin when I saw those new Freeza lines.

That is dope.
Hope they did the same with Jiren, he needs to have lines with the likes of Zamasu, Black Goku and Broly.

Post Reply