"Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by WittyUsername » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:26 pm

Valerius Dover wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:28 pm
Some interesting notes about the voice cast in case anyone is wondering.

-Daman Mills is Frieza in this, not Chris Ayres, despite the latter finishing his work on Super. Chris's condition is very on-off these days, I think.
-Bryan Massey is Oolong again, much like in the final arc of Super. I guess Jackson isn't available anymore?
-Despite being involved in some of that stuff that went down last year, Chuck Huber is still Pilaf and 17. He also reprises Master Shen for the first time since the original series finished in 2003.
-Duncan Brannan is still Babidi. He's not very active these days, so I was wondering if they'd get him back or not.
-Meredith McCoy reprises Launch for the first time since the Saiyan arc filler in 2005. She was already 18, but still neat.
-Bill Townsley is still Cui. This guy hasn't done anything since the last time he was Cui in Ultimate Tenkaichi in 2011.
-Andrew Chandler is still Spopovich. He's had several of his roles recast in other shows like Magical Index and Fairy Tail, so it's nice to see him back now.
-J. Michael Tatum reprises Bora from The Final Chapters, even though Dameon Clarke is still Cell in the game. This is probably for the best...
Brad Jackson always seems to be on and off when it comes to availability. Despite having voiced the character in the dub of Sleeping Princess in Devil’s Castle, he wasn’t around for Season 3, but after that, he consistently voiced the character in every medium right up until Kai came around, then he came back to voice the character for TFC, BoG and much of Super, and now he’s seemingly unavailable once again. From what I understand, Jackson supposedly does a lot of theater work, so maybe that has something to do with it?

In any case, Oolong is such a nonexistent character these days that I guess it doesn’t matter all that much.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Valerius Dover » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:35 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:26 pm


Brad Jackson always seems to be on and off when it comes to availability. Despite having voiced the character in the dub of Sleeping Princess in Devil’s Castle, he wasn’t around for Season 3, but after that, he consistently voiced the character in every medium right up until Kai came around, then he came back to voice the character for TFC, BoG and much of Super, and now he’s seemingly unavailable once again. From what I understand, Jackson supposedly does a lot of theater work, so maybe that has something to do with it?

In any case, Oolong is such a nonexistent character these days that I guess it doesn’t matter all that much.
Oh, totally forgot that he wasn't in the original Season 3, since Jackson did do him there on the bricks. But yeah, Oolong hasn't really done anything important since the first arc. He hangs around, but he's just sort of.....there.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:00 pm

Scsigs wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:55 pm
nato25 wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:22 pm
I mostly came here to discuss a point about Raditz now. With how Super Broly changed the Canon, what should raditz know about goku being sent to earth. Seeing as he was no longer sent by whoever sends off saiyan babies to planets for Frieza and was now sent by bardock as a rescue mission sort of thing. This really confuses now haha. Damn you super broly.
For Raditz, why would that have changed for his reasoning as to why Goku was sent to Earth? He had no idea why Goku was sent off planet & we didn't know how long it had been since he talked to his parents last since he was off-world. If that's the default reason to sent a Saiyan kid to another planet, since HE & Vegeta were off planet doing what they were doing, it makes perfect sense for him to assume Goku was also sent to Earth for that reason, dude. No records were kept since Vegeta was blown up, so I think you're being confused for no reason.
Except how did Raditz know Goku was off-world?

Bardock and Gine sent Goku off-world in private, at night. The whole point was that it was secret. Bardock didn't want Freeza knowing about it. He says to Gine that he hopes Goku will be safe by doing this, and that if there's no trouble with Freeza after all, and everyone survives, he'll just go pick up Goku later, and it'll be like nothing happened...
So this is a straight-up continuity error/plot hole.

FWIW, it also contradicts both the original and modern anime canons; OG Z had the Bardock special, and Kai had the very first scene, both of which showed a couple of guys readying Goku to be sent off-world to conquer some backwater planet, which ended up being earth. That's how Raditz knew about Goku being off-world originally; he knew Goku was sent there to conquer it as a baby, but never returned.
In the new canon, this is no longer true, so it no longer makes sense. It's a contradiction.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:16 pm

After nearly 19 hours and little to no sleep, I finished the game and... I don't think it worth the time invested into it. Like... at all.

Retelling the story from Raditz to Boo has done to death, and the cut-scenes don't do the story justice, because they're aesthetically unappealing. Besides, if I wanted to see Toiryama's original story being brought to life through motion picture, I'd just watch the anime. And least with the anime, they adapted to story completely. Where the fuck the Oob? And why was eveything about EOZ ignored? It's absolute bullshit that the conclusion of the main fucking story is skipped. Why would they do this? The main narrative, which is one the games main selling points, is incomplete because of this asinine decision.

And yes, I still DEEPLY resent the fact that the game doesn't bother telling the story of Dragon Ball prior to Raditz's arrival, despite the fact there so much good story material that would work perfectly for an Action RPG setting that's being not considered. Could you imagine a young Goku travelling the world and challenging all kinds of fighters and learning different forms of martial arts from them? How fucking awesome would that be? It would give you more of a reason to travel the world, as well as provide different avenues of combat to make the grind feel like less of a grind.

There are a fuck load of side missions, but they honestly feel like more of a distraction than something that feels essential to the gameplay. There are some side missions that involve you gaining ingredients to make dishes which boost your stats permanently, but I was able to finish the game without needing them for any of the fights, so missions like that are just really there to pad out the play-through time. And while some of side missions may appeal to the nostalgia of Dragon Ball fans, (I won't lie, I got a major kick out of the driving mission) I don't buy games for the shallow side content. I buy games for the main content. And the main content, as I mentioned before, is a ANOTHER retelling of Raditz to Boo. But what different about it this time? Well, you can can level up your character, play as different members of the cast and travel around the world to find extra content. Haven't we done this before? Oh yeah, we did... in Budokai 3... over 15 years ago. And the RPG elements in that game were far less complicated, the exploration was much more streamlined and the combat was far more stimulating, diverse and fun.

What KILLS the game for me though is the combat. Plainly put... it's terrible. It feels like a freakish love child of the fighting mechanics in Xenoverse 2 and Battle Of Z. And considering this is an action RPG, where you need to grind to finish the story with getting ass-fucked by higher lever opponents, the regressed, dull and repetitive fighting system is such a deal-breaker for me. The reason I stress on this is because what makes a grind worthwhile in any action RPG is knowing there are multiple ways to approach combat and knowing you have the freedom to mix up your fighting style to your fancy, and by this process, make the grind far less tedious and more of a breeze. No Dragon Ball should have core fighting mechanics this bad. It just makes the game more boring than it needs to be.

Also, what the fuck was up with secret boss fight with Mira and Towa? Why were resource spent on such a superfluous bonus battle? Couldn't CC2 have used that time and effort to maybe, I dunno, ADD THE MISSING STORY CONTENT FROM AFTER THE MAJIN BOO ARC?!?!

I'm going to be brutally honest... I regret forking out £60 for Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot. The game just feels like a giant chore with nostalgia sprinkled in everywhere to mask the fact it has nothing special to offer.

If you're looking for a good animated retelling of Toriyama's story, watch the TV anime(s).
If you're looking for an in-depth and varied fighting system in a Dragon Ball game, play FighterZ or Super Dragon Ball Z.
If you're looking for an extensive, yet well paced and directed Dragon Ball RPG game, play Legacy of Goku 2, Attack of the Saiyans or Fusions.
If you're interested in mostly meaningless side missions that appeal to your nostalgia, play Infinite World.

I can't in good conscious recommend Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot, at least at full price, unless you're a HUGE Dragon Ball fan with disposable income. I was already hesitant to the idea of playing from Raditz to Boo again. But after Xenoverse 1 and 2 was able the spice up the formula of how the original narrative played out, and being a suck for action RPGs, I decided to take a gamble on this. And it turned out to be a waste of time and money. Congratulations Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot, you've officially killed my interested in ever playing a Dragon Ball game that advertises itself on the premise of playing the original story from Raditz to Majin Boo.

I'd suggest picking up this game up when it goes a sale. Or better yet. just wait for more content in FighterZ.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:47 pm

lol oof.

Thanks for the review. Sounds like one to stay away from.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:53 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:00 pm
Scsigs wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:55 pm
nato25 wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:22 pm
I mostly came here to discuss a point about Raditz now. With how Super Broly changed the Canon, what should raditz know about goku being sent to earth. Seeing as he was no longer sent by whoever sends off saiyan babies to planets for Frieza and was now sent by bardock as a rescue mission sort of thing. This really confuses now haha. Damn you super broly.
For Raditz, why would that have changed for his reasoning as to why Goku was sent to Earth? He had no idea why Goku was sent off planet & we didn't know how long it had been since he talked to his parents last since he was off-world. If that's the default reason to sent a Saiyan kid to another planet, since HE & Vegeta were off planet doing what they were doing, it makes perfect sense for him to assume Goku was also sent to Earth for that reason, dude. No records were kept since Vegeta was blown up, so I think you're being confused for no reason.
Except how did Raditz know Goku was off-world?

Bardock and Gine sent Goku off-world in private, at night. The whole point was that it was secret. Bardock didn't want Freeza knowing about it. He says to Gine that he hopes Goku will be safe by doing this, and that if there's no trouble with Freeza after all, and everyone survives, he'll just go pick up Goku later, and it'll be like nothing happened...
So this is a straight-up continuity error/plot hole.
When he is asked about his brother, Raditz says that Gine contacted him and told him he was sent-off in a pod.

I guess the plot hole could be how did Gine contact Raditz when scouters can be heard by other parties, but maybe back then the scouters didn't have that capacity. We know that the Freeza forces keep upgrading their technology.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sangofe » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:04 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:16 pm
After nearly 19 hours and little to no sleep, I finished the game and... I don't think it worth the time invested into it. Like... at all.

Retelling the story from Raditz to Boo has done to death, and the cut-scenes don't do the story justice, because they're aesthetically unappealing. Besides, if I wanted to see Toiryama's original story being brought to life through motion picture, I'd just watch the anime. And least with the anime, they adapted to story completely. Where the fuck the Oob? And why was eveything about EOZ ignored? It's absolute bullshit that the conclusion of the main fucking story is skipped. Why would they do this? The main narrative, which is one the games main selling points, is incomplete because of this asinine decision.

And yes, I still DEEPLY resent the fact that the game doesn't bother telling the story of Dragon Ball prior to Raditz's arrival, despite the fact there so much good story material that would work perfectly for an Action RPG setting that's being not considered. Could you imagine a young Goku travelling the world and challenging all kinds of fighters and learning different forms of martial arts from them? How fucking awesome would that be? It would give you more of a reason to travel the world, as well as provide different avenues of combat to make the grind feel like less of a grind.

There are a fuck load of side missions, but they honestly feel like more of a distraction than something that feels essential to the gameplay. There are some side missions that involve you gaining ingredients to make dishes which boost your stats permanently, but I was able to finish the game without needing them for any of the fights, so missions like that are just really there to pad out the play-through time. And while some of side missions may appeal to the nostalgia of Dragon Ball fans, (I won't lie, I got a major kick out of the driving mission) I don't buy games for the shallow side content. I buy games for the main content. And the main content, as I mentioned before, is a ANOTHER retelling of Raditz to Boo. But what different about it this time? Well, you can can level up your character, play as different members of the cast and travel around the world to find extra content. Haven't we done this before? Oh yeah, we did... in Budokai 3... over 15 years ago. And the RPG elements in that game were far less complicated, the exploration was much more streamlined and the combat was far more stimulating, diverse and fun.

What KILLS the game for me though is the combat. Plainly put... it's terrible. It feels like a freakish love child of the fighting mechanics in Xenoverse 2 and Battle Of Z. And considering this is an action RPG, where you need to grind to finish the story with getting ass-fucked by higher lever opponents, the regressed, dull and repetitive fighting system is such a deal-breaker for me. The reason I stress on this is because what makes a grind worthwhile in any action RPG is knowing there are multiple ways to approach combat and knowing you have the freedom to mix up your fighting style to your fancy, and by this process, make the grind far less tedious and more of a breeze. No Dragon Ball should have core fighting mechanics this bad. It just makes the game more boring than it needs to be.

Also, what the fuck was up with secret boss fight with Mira and Towa? Why were resource spent on such a superfluous bonus battle? Couldn't CC2 have used that time and effort to maybe, I dunno, ADD THE MISSING STORY CONTENT FROM AFTER THE MAJIN BOO ARC?!?!

I'm going to be brutally honest... I regret forking out £60 for Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot. The game just feels like a giant chore with nostalgia sprinkled in everywhere to mask the fact it has nothing special to offer.

If you're looking for a good animated retelling of Toriyama's story, watch the TV anime(s).
If you're looking for an in-depth and varied fighting system in a Dragon Ball game, play FighterZ or Super Dragon Ball Z.
If you're looking for an extensive, yet well paced and directed Dragon Ball RPG game, play Legacy of Goku 2, Attack of the Saiyans or Fusions.
If you're interested in mostly meaningless side missions that appeal to your nostalgia, play Infinite World.

I can't in good conscious recommend Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot, at least at full price, unless you're a HUGE Dragon Ball fan with disposable income. I was already hesitant to the idea of playing from Raditz to Boo again. But after Xenoverse 1 and 2 was able the spice up the formula of how the original narrative played out, and being a suck for action RPGs, I decided to take a gamble on this. And it turned out to be a waste of time and money. Congratulations Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot, you've officially killed my interested in ever playing a Dragon Ball game that advertises itself on the premise of playing the original story from Raditz to Majin Boo.

I'd suggest picking up this game up when it goes a sale. Or better yet. just wait for more content in FighterZ.
Can you play dbz legends on ps1 and compare the fighting system to that? I absolutely love the Dbz legends fighting system, and kakkarot's fighting system looks like that just in 3d.
Robo4900 wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:47 pm
lol oof.

Thanks for the review. Sounds like one to stay away from.
Just re inforces your personal bias you had from the get go. I've seen and read way different reviews that are very positive.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:14 am

That's probably from people who like the same things over and over, though. Hopefully there will be updates to cover the missing content and, more importantly, to bring new ones too.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:54 am

This game really skips over the epilogue of the manga? That’s pretty disappointing. It’s unfortunate enough that the game only covers the Z era, but not even covering the official ending of the series? Well, I guess it’s possible that they’re leaving the door open for a potential sequel to cover the Super era.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sangofe » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:25 am

WittyUsername wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:54 am
This game really skips over the epilogue of the manga? That’s pretty disappointing. It’s unfortunate enough that the game only covers the Z era, but not even covering the official ending of the series? Well, I guess it’s possible that they’re leaving the door open for a potential sequel to cover the Super era.
Yeah that's strange but at the same time I don't think we had the whole dbz story in a game since DBZ legends?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Saimaroimaru » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:22 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:16 pm

Retelling the story from Raditz to Boo has done to death, and the cut-scenes don't do the story justice, because they're aesthetically unappealing. Besides, if I wanted to see Toiryama's original story being brought to life through motion picture, I'd just watch the anime. And least with the anime, they adapted to story completely. Where the fuck the Oob? And why was eveything about EOZ ignored? It's absolute bullshit that the conclusion of the main fucking story is skipped. Why would they do this? The main narrative, which is one the games main selling points, is incomplete because of this asinine decision.

And yes, I still DEEPLY resent the fact that the game doesn't bother telling the story of Dragon Ball prior to Raditz's arrival, despite the fact there so much good story material that would work perfectly for an Action RPG setting that's being not considered. Could you imagine a young Goku travelling the world and challenging all kinds of fighters and learning different forms of martial arts from them? How fucking awesome would that be? It would give you more of a reason to travel the world, as well as provide different avenues of combat to make the grind feel like less of a grind.

If you're looking for a good animated retelling of Toriyama's story, watch the TV anime(s).
If you're looking for an in-depth and varied fighting system in a Dragon Ball game, play FighterZ or Super Dragon Ball Z.
If you're looking for an extensive, yet well paced and directed Dragon Ball RPG game, play Legacy of Goku 2, Attack of the Saiyans or Fusions.
If you're interested in mostly meaningless side missions that appeal to your nostalgia, play Infinite World.
When I first learned that this game was gonna ignore Dragon Ball and go straight into DBZ, I decided to not pre-order this game. Dragon Ball is more than just DBZ at this point, and this isn't the mid 00's where it was king.

Honestly, for me a full blown 3D game like DBZK combine with Dragon Ball Fusions would be nice. Explains why I skipped DBZK for SDBH.
If they gotta do DBZ no matter what, then at least allow for some what-if scenarios that allow for some fun brief story line explorations. A true ending for playing the game close to how the series folded out, & countless side endings based on you changing things up. Like Jeice & Burter joining the Z fighters if they were sparred by Goku & Vegeta. Another could be if 17 finds Goku in the Cell saga or if Piccolo managed to kill Imperfect Cell when they first meet. Or one where Super Buu meets an early end because Hercule jumped into the goo meant for Gotenks or Piccolo for all sorts of hi-jinks.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Novantico » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:27 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:16 pm
After nearly 19 hours and little to no sleep, I finished the game and... I don't think it worth the time invested into it. Like... at all.

Retelling the story from Raditz to Boo has done to death, and the cut-scenes don't do the story justice, because they're aesthetically unappealing. Besides, if I wanted to see Toiryama's original story being brought to life through motion picture, I'd just watch the anime. And least with the anime, they adapted to story completely. Where the fuck the Oob? And why was eveything about EOZ ignored? It's absolute bullshit that the conclusion of the main fucking story is skipped. Why would they do this? The main narrative, which is one the games main selling points, is incomplete because of this asinine decision.

And yes, I still DEEPLY resent the fact that the game doesn't bother telling the story of Dragon Ball prior to Raditz's arrival, despite the fact there so much good story material that would work perfectly for an Action RPG setting that's being not considered. Could you imagine a young Goku travelling the world and challenging all kinds of fighters and learning different forms of martial arts from them? How fucking awesome would that be? It would give you more of a reason to travel the world, as well as provide different avenues of combat to make the grind feel like less of a grind.

There are a fuck load of side missions, but they honestly feel like more of a distraction than something that feels essential to the gameplay. There are some side missions that involve you gaining ingredients to make dishes which boost your stats permanently, but I was able to finish the game without needing them for any of the fights, so missions like that are just really there to pad out the play-through time. And while some of side missions may appeal to the nostalgia of Dragon Ball fans, (I won't lie, I got a major kick out of the driving mission) I don't buy games for the shallow side content. I buy games for the main content. And the main content, as I mentioned before, is a ANOTHER retelling of Raditz to Boo. But what different about it this time? Well, you can can level up your character, play as different members of the cast and travel around the world to find extra content. Haven't we done this before? Oh yeah, we did... in Budokai 3... over 15 years ago. And the RPG elements in that game were far less complicated, the exploration was much more streamlined and the combat was far more stimulating, diverse and fun.

What KILLS the game for me though is the combat. Plainly put... it's terrible. It feels like a freakish love child of the fighting mechanics in Xenoverse 2 and Battle Of Z. And considering this is an action RPG, where you need to grind to finish the story with getting ass-fucked by higher lever opponents, the regressed, dull and repetitive fighting system is such a deal-breaker for me. The reason I stress on this is because what makes a grind worthwhile in any action RPG is knowing there are multiple ways to approach combat and knowing you have the freedom to mix up your fighting style to your fancy, and by this process, make the grind far less tedious and more of a breeze. No Dragon Ball should have core fighting mechanics this bad. It just makes the game more boring than it needs to be.

Also, what the fuck was up with secret boss fight with Mira and Towa? Why were resource spent on such a superfluous bonus battle? Couldn't CC2 have used that time and effort to maybe, I dunno, ADD THE MISSING STORY CONTENT FROM AFTER THE MAJIN BOO ARC?!?!

I'm going to be brutally honest... I regret forking out £60 for Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot. The game just feels like a giant chore with nostalgia sprinkled in everywhere to mask the fact it has nothing special to offer.

If you're looking for a good animated retelling of Toriyama's story, watch the TV anime(s).
If you're looking for an in-depth and varied fighting system in a Dragon Ball game, play FighterZ or Super Dragon Ball Z.
If you're looking for an extensive, yet well paced and directed Dragon Ball RPG game, play Legacy of Goku 2, Attack of the Saiyans or Fusions.
If you're interested in mostly meaningless side missions that appeal to your nostalgia, play Infinite World.

I can't in good conscious recommend Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot, at least at full price, unless you're a HUGE Dragon Ball fan with disposable income. I was already hesitant to the idea of playing from Raditz to Boo again. But after Xenoverse 1 and 2 was able the spice up the formula of how the original narrative played out, and being a suck for action RPGs, I decided to take a gamble on this. And it turned out to be a waste of time and money. Congratulations Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot, you've officially killed my interested in ever playing a Dragon Ball game that advertises itself on the premise of playing the original story from Raditz to Majin Boo.

I'd suggest picking up this game up when it goes a sale. Or better yet. just wait for more content in FighterZ.
Why would you buy the game if you’re going to bitch about it being the same old story? You might as well complain that Goku is on the cover of a game called “Kakarot.” Why would you be mad that a Dragon Ball —Z— game wouldn’t have pre or post Z stuff? Uub is a valid complaint at least.

And 19 hours? How did you even have time to play side missions let alone enjoy the game? It was more surprising to see someone already having 21 hours and being on Cell than finishing the entire game.

You expected fighting game tier combat in a game that isn’t centered around it. Save for Uub and Mira/Towa, all you had to do was have enough of a mind to see what the gameplay combat is like. It’s like you intentionally went out of your way to be miserable.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by 90sDBZ » Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:53 am

So far I think the game is pretty good. I've put in about 4 hours and am only on the training for the Saiyans arrival. I'm not rushing through it too fast.

All the RPG elements and various systems feel like a lot to take in. I'm usually more of a fighting game player, so I guess this is to be expected.

Some of the cutscenes are really well done, others not as much. The gameplay itself is serviceable enough for what it is. I guess I'm still forming an overall opinion of the game. So far I'd say it's pretty good.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:32 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:16 pm
.

First, I didn't see anyone who managed to finish the game in 19 hours without rushing the game completely (the minimum to finish the game so far had been from a guy with 25 hours who skipped most side quests).

And the fact that you're talking nonsense about the game long before its release (and praising FighterZ as the only decent game) also makes everything you're talking about the mechanics as iffy, because most of your complaints are not even related to the quality of the game itself. Complaining how the game only repeats the DBZ story is not a valid criticism because it has nothing to do with the quality of the game, it is something we have known for a long time and if you started playing with a formed opinion, then it is useless to even begin

Your bias against the game was already strong before that

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:08 am

Novantico wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:27 am
Why would you buy the game if you’re going to bitch about it being the same old story? You might as well complain that Goku is on the cover of a game called “Kakarot.” Why would you be mad that a Dragon Ball —Z— game wouldn’t have pre or post Z stuff? Uub is a valid complaint at least.

And 19 hours? How did you even have time to play side missions let alone enjoy the game? It was more surprising to see someone already having 21 hours and being on Cell than finishing the entire game.

You expected fighting game tier combat in a game that isn’t centered around it. Save for Uub and Mira/Towa, all you had to do was have enough of a mind to see what the gameplay combat is like. It’s like you intentionally went out of your way to be miserable.
I already stated why I took a shot at the game despite my preservations about it:
I was already hesitant to the idea of playing from Raditz to Boo again. But after Xenoverse 1 and 2 was able the spice up the formula of how the original narrative played out, and being a sucker for action RPGs, I decided to take a gamble on this.
How there's not universal gradient to how long it should take for people to finish the game. I caught on quite quickly how meaningless the side mission were and skipped them entirely, and that certainly aided in my finishing the game much quicker. But I should not feel obliged to do missions I feel that are a waste of time. Plus, the A.I are piss easy to beat, if you know to how to cheese them right.

And yes, I expect an Action RPG to have a stimulating core fighting loop. If the "Action" part of the RPG is dull and repetitive, it will drag down the experience immensely.
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:32 am
First, I didn't see anyone who managed to finish the game in 19 hours without rushing the game completely (the minimum to finish the game so far had been from a guy with 25 hours who skipped most side quests).

And the fact that you're talking nonsense about the game long before its release (and praising FighterZ as the only decent game) also makes everything you're talking about the mechanics as iffy, because most of your complaints are not even related to the quality of the game itself. Complaining how the game only repeats the DBZ story is not a valid criticism because it has nothing to do with the quality of the game, it is something we have known for a long time and if you started playing with a formed opinion, then it is useless to even begin

Your bias against the game was already strong before that
Everyone isn't going to finish the game at the same time. Just because somebody finished the games needing a few more hours than I did doesn't mean I didn't get the fill experience of the main narrative.

If the "nonsense" you're referring to is me calling a spade a spade and showing disinterest to playing the story and character beats from Raditz to Majin Boo again, as well as being unimpressed with the combat and the quality of the cut-scenes, then I will by all mean continue to talk "nonsense" like this.

Regurgitating the story from Raditz to Majin Boo is a valid complaint because that is the foundation the whole fucking game it built on; you being able to play through, and watch, the most famous scenarios in Dragon Ball. And guess what, the experience of playing through the story is majorly hampered by the poor combat, meaningless side content and subpar cut-scenes. And that's not even taking consideration that this kind of game has been done before, and done better.

And yes, Fighter Z is the only really exceptional Dragon Ball game that has been released this generation, and I will stand by that opinion.

You can me biased all the you want because you like this game and I don't, but I'm just giving my opinion. And if it upsets you THAT much there are plenty of more positive reviews of the game that can sooth your soul and appeal to you exceptions.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sangofe » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:47 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:08 am
Novantico wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:27 am
Why would you buy the game if you’re going to bitch about it being the same old story? You might as well complain that Goku is on the cover of a game called “Kakarot.” Why would you be mad that a Dragon Ball —Z— game wouldn’t have pre or post Z stuff? Uub is a valid complaint at least.

And 19 hours? How did you even have time to play side missions let alone enjoy the game? It was more surprising to see someone already having 21 hours and being on Cell than finishing the entire game.

You expected fighting game tier combat in a game that isn’t centered around it. Save for Uub and Mira/Towa, all you had to do was have enough of a mind to see what the gameplay combat is like. It’s like you intentionally went out of your way to be miserable.
I already stated why I took a shot at the game despite my preservations about it:
I was already hesitant to the idea of playing from Raditz to Boo again. But after Xenoverse 1 and 2 was able the spice up the formula of how the original narrative played out, and being a sucker for action RPGs, I decided to take a gamble on this.
How there's not universal gradient to how long it should take for people to finish the game. I caught on quite quickly how meaningless the side mission were and skipped them entirely, and that certainly aided in my finishing the game much quicker. But I should not feel obliged to do missions I feel that are a waste of time. Plus, the A.I are piss easy to beat, if you know to how to cheese them right.

And yes, I expect an Action RPG to have a stimulating core fighting loop. If the "Action" part of the RPG is dull and repetitive, it will drag down the experience immensely.
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:32 am
First, I didn't see anyone who managed to finish the game in 19 hours without rushing the game completely (the minimum to finish the game so far had been from a guy with 25 hours who skipped most side quests).

And the fact that you're talking nonsense about the game long before its release (and praising FighterZ as the only decent game) also makes everything you're talking about the mechanics as iffy, because most of your complaints are not even related to the quality of the game itself. Complaining how the game only repeats the DBZ story is not a valid criticism because it has nothing to do with the quality of the game, it is something we have known for a long time and if you started playing with a formed opinion, then it is useless to even begin

Your bias against the game was already strong before that
Everyone isn't going to finish the game at the same time. Just because somebody finished the games needing a few more hours than I did doesn't mean I didn't get the fill experience of the main narrative.

If the "nonsense" you're referring to is me calling a spade a spade and showing disinterest to playing the story and character beats from Raditz to Majin Boo again, as well as being unimpressed with the combat and the quality of the cut-scenes, then I will by all mean continue to talk "nonsense" like this.

Regurgitating the story from Raditz to Majin Boo is a valid complaint because that is the foundation the whole fucking game it built on; you being able to play through, and watch, the most famous scenarios in Dragon Ball. And guess what, the experience of playing through the story is majorly hampered by the poor combat, meaningless side content and subpar cut-scenes. And that's not even taking consideration that this kind of game has been done before, and done better.

And yes, Fighter Z is the only really exceptional Dragon Ball game that has been released this generation, and I will stand by that opinion.

You can me biased all the you want because you like this game and I don't, but I'm just giving my opinion. And if it upsets you THAT much there are plenty of more positive reviews of the game that can sooth your soul and appeal to you exceptions.
Hey, did you see my question about comparing the fighting system to DBZ legends on PS1/Saturn?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:15 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:08 am
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:32 am
First, I didn't see anyone who managed to finish the game in 19 hours without rushing the game completely (the minimum to finish the game so far had been from a guy with 25 hours who skipped most side quests).

And the fact that you're talking nonsense about the game long before its release (and praising FighterZ as the only decent game) also makes everything you're talking about the mechanics as iffy, because most of your complaints are not even related to the quality of the game itself. Complaining how the game only repeats the DBZ story is not a valid criticism because it has nothing to do with the quality of the game, it is something we have known for a long time and if you started playing with a formed opinion, then it is useless to even begin

Your bias against the game was already strong before that
Everyone isn't going to finish the game at the same time. Just because somebody finished the games needing a few more hours than I did doesn't mean I didn't get the fill experience of the main narrative.

If the "nonsense" you're referring to is me calling a spade a spade and showing disinterest to playing the story and character beats from Raditz to Majin Boo again, as well as being unimpressed with the combat and the quality of the cut-scenes, then I will by all mean continue to talk "nonsense" like this.

Regurgitating the story from Raditz to Majin Boo is a valid complaint because that is the foundation the whole fucking game it built on; you being able to play through, and watch, the most famous scenarios in Dragon Ball. And guess what, the experience of playing through the story is majorly hampered by the poor combat, meaningless side content and subpar cut-scenes. And that's not even taking consideration that this kind of game has been done before, and done better.

And yes, Fighter Z is the only really exceptional Dragon Ball game that has been released this generation, and I will stand by that opinion.

You can me biased all the you want because you like this game and I don't, but I'm just giving my opinion. And if it upsets you THAT much there are plenty of more positive reviews of the game that can sooth your soul and appeal to you exceptions.
I am aware of the problems of the game, I emphasized in my previous posts. The problem is not that you criticize the game, it is how you criticize. You may not like the fact that Kakarot tells the entire DBZ Story, but you cannot use it as a valid criticism against the game features.

It's like saying that Naruto Storm 4 sucks because Story mode is about ninja war and I didn't want it to be, it doesn't make sense. Most of your criticisms are based on how bad the game is because it is the same story. And I don't care about FighterZ, I used the game as an example to say how your opinion was biased from the start. I'm not saying that the game is perfect or saying that you need to like, I am criticizing the way you rated the game, which for me is not fair

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:49 am

sangofe wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:47 am
Hey, did you see my question about comparing the fighting system to DBZ legends on PS1/Saturn?
I never played that games so I can't answer that question.
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:15 am
I am aware of the problems of the game, I emphasized in my previous posts. The problem is not that you criticize the game, it is how you criticize. You may not like the fact that Kakarot tells the entire DBZ Story, but you cannot use it as a valid criticism against the game features.

It's like saying that Naruto Storm 4 sucks because Story mode is about ninja war and I didn't want it to be, it doesn't make sense. Most of your criticisms are based on how bad the game is because it is the same story. And I don't care about FighterZ, I used the game as an example to say how your opinion was biased from the start. I'm not saying that the game is perfect or saying that you need to like, I am criticizing the way you rated the game, which for me is not fair.
I can and will. In any exceptional videogame, especially when dealing with action RPGs, story and gameplay need to complement one another. Unlike, Ultimate Ninja Storm 4, which has online multiplayer and other offline modes to support itself when people are done with the story, Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot is a strictly singleplayer experience which makes the necessity of the main narrative to be presented very well and in a unique fashion an even greater priority. And there is nothing from playing the main campaign of the game that I couldn't have gotten from just watching the anime. Even with all the issues in Xenoverse 1 & 2, at those games brought a unique twist on the character and story beats from the Saiyan arc to the Majin Boo arc. And even if I don't take all of that into consideration, the cutscenes don't look good, the voice acting doesn't blow me away and the epilogue of the main story is missing. So Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot didn't even fully do its initial job right of adapting the material of the Saiyan arc to conclusion of the story because they cut the fucking ending.

Look, I'm not trying to be biased at all. I gave this game a good amount of time, despite being initially lukewarm to it at best pre-release. But for a game that markets itself as action RPG, only to have both the "action" element and the "RPG" elements be poorly implemented, what do you expect me to say?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Zeon_Grunt » Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:00 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:08 am
You can me biased all the you want because you like this game and I don't, but I'm just giving my opinion.
You're not biased because you don't like the game, you're biased because you didn't give it a fair chance to be what it was trying to be and won't judge it on it's own merits. You had expectations for what you wanted it to be (something no one ever tried to sell the game as) and when it failed in those departments, you've dismissed the game as being bad.

Now it's not a perfect game (the controls are clunky and the side quests are pointless), but to claim this type of DBZ game has been done before and better is misleading. Other than the Legacy of Goku titles, it's the only action RPG in the franchise, more so the only one to do such a complete retelling of the story (most quit after Freeza or Cell, this one actually goes up to Boo). The only thing close on consoles was Sagas and that game is infinitely worse than this one. To claim that LoG did the whole action RPG thing better is also a lie as it's combat is even shallower (and in the case of LoG1, more broken thanks to shit hit detection) than Kakarot's.

I can't think of many action RPGs on the market that don't have shallow as hell combat similar to this game's, where all you do is mash one attack button and break it up with specials/spells. Despite DBZ being a fighting franchise, this isn't a fighting game and to expect fighting game levels of depth in the mechanics was always going to set yourself up for disappointment.

Personally, I think your complaint about the story being retold (as well as everyone else complaining about the story) is complete horseshit. Just because the anime is the definitive adaptation of the source material, doesn't mean we shouldn't/can't also have video games that tell the same story. I'm sorry you're bored of the DBZ story already, but there are tons of us who either aren't or haven't had the chance to play through the actual story of DBZ. This modern belief that because we got Budokai and Budokai Tenkaichi that Bamco needs to permanently stop adapting DBZ's story and exclusively do What-If stories honestly infuriates me. Ignoring that every time they've ventured away from the source material, it's been shit, we gotta remember that while you and I may have played every PS2 game, that was 2 generations and 13 years ago. There are countless fans these days who simply weren't around back then and never got to play through the story on "modern" (read: current gen at the time, so PS3 for last gen, PS4 this gen, PS5 next gen) consoles. Hell, I alone have 5 nephews who all love DBZ but are all too young to have played BT3 in it's heyday and don't care to replay retro games because they admittedly look like shit and control wonky without the last decade's worth of QoL improvements every game genre has made.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:27 pm

I’m really enjoying it so far. I don’t give a flying fuck that it’s Raditz to Buu again. I would have loved End of Z, but whatever. I’ve put about 8 hours in, on Vegeta right now. (I’ve been spending a lot of time flying around and getting orbs)

My only complaint is there’s a glitch for some battles that the camera freaks out and goes way above the character and can’t be moved until you’re hit. Doesn’t always happen but it’s annoying. Hopefully they’ll patch it.

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