"Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot" Official Discussion Thread

[Zeon_Grunt]

To me saying that "If I wanted to play through Toriyama's story I'd just play this game or that game" is a bit unfair, Infinite World came out 12 years ago and thats a fighting game. Kakarot is an adventure ala Legacy of Goku, Attack of the Saiyans etc (Those games get plenty of praise btw, despite retelling the same old story) So the experience is gonna be different automatically.

It's almost like saying why would I play MK:Shaolin Monks when I've already played MK 1-3, two totally different experiences.

Said it better than I could.

[Scsigs]

One piece of music that plays a lot in the first 3 hours of the game that's from the show, not sure what the song's called, but I really like is the one that's an orchestral instrumental song that goes from the melody of the theme song of DB into 'Cha-la Head Cha-la' the first theme song of DBZ. It's really cool & I'd never noticed that about the song before.

[sangofe]

That's so wholesome, thank you!

No problem. Not sure what the rules about plugging threads on other sites, but if you're on Reddit, I did a small "ama" yesterday to field questions.

That's disappointing.

Not as disappointing as not being able to free roam with Vegetto or Gotenks, but I'm sure all of this will be fixed with mods on PC.
[/quote]

What? They just appear in battles then?

[Zeon_Grunt]

That's so wholesome, thank you!

No problem. Not sure what the rules about plugging threads on other sites, but if you're on Reddit, I did a small "ama" yesterday to field questions.

That's disappointing.

Not as disappointing as not being able to free roam with Vegetto or Gotenks, but I'm sure all of this will be fixed with mods on PC.

What? They just appear in battles then?
[/quote]

Yes

[TheSaiyanGod]

Quick question: is in this game Super Saiyan Second Grade state trunks?

To answer this, no. You don't get to play as that Trunks at all as the game skips from Vegeta vs Cell to the Cell Games.

Oh, that's really bad ... thanks for the answer

You can play with Super Saiyan grade 1 Vegeta at least (Super Vegeta), but it's sad that they don't add the Super Trunks form in the game (which is strange because in the game's artbook this form is shown).

I just don't know if the Super Vegeta form is in the skill tree or if you can use it again after the fight against 2nd form Cell

[Grimlock]

To each their own, but to me FighterZ and Xenoverse both reek of fan-fiction tier writing. I'd rather re-read the fanfiction about Goku and Anne Frank than replay either of those games' story modes.

And how exactly bringing back Freeza in the most stupid way; doing two tournaments in a row without a story in both; bringing back Trunks for an absurdly crap ending; recoloring hair with ugly colors; bringing back Vegetto to be as useless as a person can be; bringing back Broly for yet another fourth movie are better? All of this isn't fanfiction-tier garbage? Are all of them good stuff worth all the praise?

Honestly, after we do finally get that "perfect retelling," I couldn't care less what they do with the games because I'll stop buying them from Bamco. I personally hate fan-fiction and don't want that crap in my games.

So you want more retelling just for the sake of having more retelling and to avoid new content out of your own bias against new stuff. You willingly want to be in an endless cycle. What a pity...

[Lord Beerus]

As someone who's top 100 in FighterZ with over 1000 hours in that game, you're objectively wrong about the combat system being bad. It's honestly just as deep and on the level of FighterZ. I'm not sure why you have such a problem with it, but the majority opinion is that the game is good. This game is easily on the level of FighterZ, I'm surprised at how deep this combat system is for a single player game.

I think you need to the look up the word "objective" because it doesn't mean what you think it means. But based on your supposed experience, having compared the combat systems of FighterZ and DBZ: Kakarot and you think that FighterZ and DBZ: Kakarot on the same of level of quality when it comes to fighting mechanics, than that's your opinion. Although my opinion, that opinion is...

Spoiler:

Giving a game a fair chance has nothing to do with how much time you force yourself to play it. I don't know how you can go into a game not liking it on a conceptual level and not see how you went in with a bias against the game...

I'll admit that interest in the game was tepid at best, before I even started playing it, but then the same is true of every game, object, animal and human being I encounter. Since the Internet these days seems to be against notion of quality control, I've found it easier to go into every form of entertainment medium with moderate expectations, until it can prove itself otherwise.

Idk how you can watch something like this https://youtu.be/XnWHgxzbX8Q?t=306 and tell me it looks unappealing. If you're referring to the generic text-only cutscenes where the characters are just standing around, you'd have to fault literally every JRPG ever made for doing it because they ALL do it. It's an industry standard and expectation that your JRPG isn't going to flesh out every single dialogue scene with a high quality cutscene.

Eh. I just don't find the cutscenes impressive at all. That's just my opinion.

This is starting to read like this is your first anime RPG... Of it's peer's this game's story presentation is easily top tier.

I've played TONS of RPGs. Whether the RPGs are based on anime or not, doesn't hide the fact that the structure of the gameplay is mostly the same. It all comes down to execution. I just don't think Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot stuck the landing in that regard.

This is pretty much the meat and bones of a typical RPG, much less a JRPG... much less an anime based JRPG like this one..

No. The meat and bone of any RPG is its combat loop, narrative presentation, implementation of levelling up system and variation in additional content.

Budget isn't just a "maybe" factor, it absolutely is. It's 100% unfair to compare the polish and production values of an indie or AA tier game with AAA titles that have hundreds of developers and get tens of millions dumped into them. To expect any DBZ title to compare is unfair because Bamco is never going to give the franchise the kind of money necessary for that level of polish. The games just don't make enough back to justify the costs.

There are so many AAA games that look like ass and play like garbage, while there are many independent games that are gorgeous to look at and have a fantastically varied gameplay loop. It all comes down to talent.

No one is asking you to personally care about the game at all (hell, no one asked you to buy the game in the first place), just not to knock the game because it's retelling a story you personally subjected yourself to countless times. The game retelling the story isn't a flaw of the game, it's a personal issue born out of personal experiences and preferences.

I care, because I made the independent decision to buy the fucking game and play the fucking for the game in the hope it would surpass more tepid expectations for it. It's up the game the make me give a shit about what it wants me to do.

That's good for you, but not everyone has your preferences. Why should we miss out on good game adapations just because there are some people who don't like the concept of them?

I'm not expecting anyone to have my preference. I'm not forcing people to do jack fucking shit. If fans want to relive the Saiyan arc to the Majin Boo arc, then they can fucking do that shit. I personally don't care for that.

It is the most faithful and in-depth retelling of the story of DBZ in the franchise's game history barring potentially the Legacy of Goku series... Literally every other game skips fights and huge swatches of the story to just hit the main talking points. I honestly don't get how they could have retold the story any better short of just being the anime.

It's great you found enjoyment in Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot retelling the story from Saiyan arc to the Majin Boo arc. I didn't. End of story.

Honestly, this makes me happy. The more people who realize that not every game is for them and learning to not subject themselves to something they're fundamentally opposed to (as you seem to be about faithful game adaptions) the better.

For the record, I'm specifically talking about Dragon Ball games that strictly have the central narrative hook of playing from the Saiyan arc to the Majin Boo with you being inserted into the major battles. I'm done with that shit. I'm still interested in the idea of Dragon Ball Action RPGs because there's some much you can do with that concept.

[Zeon_Grunt]

And how exactly bringing back Freeza in the most stupid way; doing two tournaments in a row without a story in both; bringing back Trunks for an absurdly crap ending; recoloring hair with ugly colors; bringing back Vegetto to be as useless as a person can be; bringing back Broly for yet another fourth movie are better? All of this isn't fanfiction-tier garbage? Are all of them good stuff worth all the praise?

By that argument, everything after Raditz is "fanfiction-tier garbage." Pfft Goku's an alien now? Vegeta and Bulma have a kid out of the blue that can time travel? The fuck is that shit?

So you want more retelling just for the sake of having more retelling and to avoid new content out of your own bias against new stuff. You willingly want to be in an endless cycle. What a pity...

I just hate fan self-inserts and that's all these games seem to be able to do when it comes to new stories.

It's one thing to get a new game from the perspective of what Oob does after Z. When I play an anime game, I want to play AS the characters and go through THEIR story, not play as some rando create-a-character.

snip

Look, I'm just saying that you went into the game with a bias against what it was trying to be and that it being a retelling of DBZ's story doesn't make the story automatically bad.

[Soppa Saia People]

One piece of music that plays a lot in the first 3 hours of the game that's from the show, not sure what the song's called, but I really like is the one that's an orchestral instrumental song that goes from the melody of the theme song of DB into 'Cha-la Head Cha-la' the first theme song of DBZ. It's really cool & I'd never noticed that about the song before.

all the cha-la variations from the kikuchi score are fantastic, and it made very happy that they included a couple of them in this game, same with gohan's theme.

[Dbzfan94]

I love the Kikuchi Ginyu force theme made it in. Its one of my favorite Kikuchi tracks and I'm happy they did it justice.

[Scsigs]

I love the Kikuchi Ginyu force theme made it in. Its one of my favorite Kikuchi tracks and I'm happy they did it justice.

Is that the one that goes "Toku Sentai"?

[Soppa Saia People]

that's not an kikuchi track, that's an insert song from kai, i don't know who composed it however. i assume they mean one of the early Z fight themes that gets titled as "The Fearsome Ginyu Tokusentai" in a lot of the BGM collections, it's from Z movie 1.

[Dbzfan94]

I love the Kikuchi Ginyu force theme made it in. Its one of my favorite Kikuchi tracks and I'm happy they did it justice.

Is that the one that goes "Toku Sentai"?

This one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O95Tx_6wMjQ&t=1s

[Lord Beerus]

Look, I'm just saying that you went into the game with a bias against what it was trying to be and that it being a retelling of DBZ's story doesn't make the story automatically bad.

I was tired of playing from Raditz to Boo again, but that doesn't mean the game couldn't have surprised me with the presentation of it and been still a worthwhile experience. I only stated that I was personally IMMENSELY burned out on that narrative concept. That doesn't mean I'm biased. If I was biased against what the game was trying to be, I would have stated that because the game's main narrative is just a re-telling of the original story from the Saiyan arc to the Majin Boo arc that it was going to be bad or subpar by default . And nowhere did I ever mention that prior to the game coming out.

I think Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot is a major letdown of an Action RPG. That's just my opinion.

[TheGreatness25]

I like the music and visuals, but the controls are hard to get into. At least for me. I am having a tough time getting used to the combat system. I didn't even get to the Raditz fight yet, so we'll see.

[Zeon_Grunt]

I was tired of playing from Raditz to Boo again, but that doesn't mean the game couldn't have surprised me with the presentation of it and been still a worthwhile experience. I only stated that I was personally IMMENSELY burned out on that narrative concept. That doesn't mean I'm biased. If I was biased against what the game was trying to be, I would have stated that because the game's main narrative is just a re-telling of the original story from the Saiyan arc to the Majin Boo arc that it was going to be bad or subpar by default . And nowhere did I ever mention that prior to the game coming out.

Do you not know what the term 'bias' means? "Prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair." If you're burnt out on a given story and don't want to see it anymore, then you're going to have a negative bias. It's inevitable and human nature.

For instance, if I were tired of superhero movies, I wouldn't have been able to go into Avengers Endgame and give it a fair shot because I'd have a negative bias against that genre and type of movie. If I were sick of them, the movie wouldn't have been great to me no matter how awesome a super hero movie it turned out to be.

I honestly don't know what this game could have done on it's budget that could have impressed you with the presentation because honestly, the cutscenes in this game rival the Ultimate Ninja Storm games in how great they look, are choreographed, and sell the power of the attacks. If you're saying you don't find the graphics appealing, that's a whole different story.

[DBZ Macky]

Still unsure on whether I'm gonna buy the game or not. I'm sure the game is excellent at being what it was supposed to be.
I completely understand the mindset of both the people who like the game and of those who were disappointed with it.

It really has been a long time since we got the complete and pure "Raditz-to-Buu" experience, and DBZ: Kakarot is definitely the kind of game I think a newcomer to the series or a more casual fan might love. I'm a big fan of the RPG elements as well as the Kikuchi OST too, so I'm not able to really understand why I don't feel quite as excited about the game when it seems so good on paper.

Like, if I were to choose between what we got with DBZ: Kakarot or just a straight up sequel to Attack of the Saiyans (well, I guess it'd be Attack of the Ginyu Force or something in that case), I'm pretty sure I would be more excited for the Attack of the Saiyans sequel.
Both of them are RPGs, and DBZ: Kakarot would cover the entire story rather than just the Frieza arc, but I'm pretty sure I would still prefer the latter.

Thing is, we really have played "Raditz-to-Buu" so many times that there's no appeal to it anymore.
To a newcomer to the series, sure, I would recommend this game 10/10 times, but for me, the kind of Dragon Ball fan that has played each entry in the Budokai series, each entry in the Budokai Tenkaichi series, the question becomes - "What's new?"

From what I've seen of the game, I think I'd probably be able to appreciate it a few years later down the road, maybe when I don't really remember the Dragon Ball Z story as well, when I want to relive it on my own accord.

There's still so much uncharted territory when it comes to modern Dragon Ball.
They can make a modern game for the Pre-Z stuff, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
They can make a GT game, I don't remember GT well so I'd love to relive that story for sure.
Heck, they can make a Dragon Ball Super Game! Anything that covers the Tournament of Power, I'd surely buy it, even if it plays like the first Legacy of Goku game and the reviews are terrible, I would buy it. Because I want to experience the lesser played Dragon Ball stories.

Just adding Mira or Demigra or some other random powerful guy at the end of the story, or at the middle of story beats doesn't make the game more interesting. Some random fishing mini-game is funny the first few times, but it gets stale real quick. It'd be great to have something new for a change.
I've watched the Dragon Ball Super Anime, I want to experience those battles for myself, I'm sure it would be great fun.

In any case, I do hope Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot sells well and we get a DBS game with the same engine, now that is something I can truly get behind without even seeing how the final product looks like.

[Lord Beerus]

I was tired of playing from Raditz to Boo again, but that doesn't mean the game couldn't have surprised me with the presentation of it and been still a worthwhile experience. I only stated that I was personally IMMENSELY burned out on that narrative concept. That doesn't mean I'm biased. If I was biased against what the game was trying to be, I would have stated that because the game's main narrative is just a re-telling of the original story from the Saiyan arc to the Majin Boo arc that it was going to be bad or subpar by default . And nowhere did I ever mention that prior to the game coming out.

Do you not know what the term 'bias' means? "Prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair." If you're burnt out on a given story and don't want to see it anymore, then you're going to have a negative bias. It's inevitable and human nature.

For instance, if I were tired of superhero movies, I wouldn't have been able to go into Avengers Endgame and give it a fair shot because I'd have a negative bias against that genre and type of movie. If I were sick of them, the movie wouldn't have been great to me no matter how awesome a super hero movie it turned out to be.

I honestly don't know what this game could have done on it's budget that could have impressed you with the presentation because honestly, the cutscenes in this game rival the Ultimate Ninja Storm games in how great they look, are choreographed, and sell the power of the attacks. If you're saying you don't find the graphics appealing, that's a whole different story.

Ironically, you providing the definition just proves you labelling me as bias is quite inaccurate. If I was prejudice against playing from Raditz to Majin Boo again, it would have been an opinion that wasn't based on any reason or experience. I've played through several Dragon Ball games that allow me to be inserted in the major battles from the Saiyan arc to the Majin Boo arc, I've play a Dragon Ball game that had cutscenes and side missions to accompany going through the story beats from the Saiyan arc to the Majin Boo arc and I've played Dragon Ball games that allowed you to travel open worlds and level up the main cast when going through, you guessed it, the Saiyan arc to the Majin Boo arc. So I have plenty of experience of know what kind of core features Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot.

Just because I'm burned out on something doesn't mean my interest can't be reignited by the same thing. I wouldn't have minded playing from the Saiyan arc to the Majin Boo arc again as long as the experience wasn't a dull, repetitive and monotonous slog.

[LettuceJUMP]

I felt like most in beginning. Excited for a non-fighting focused dbz game and found controls/flight to be wonky and open world questionable decisions. But now that i’m deep into end of namek, i’ve changed my opinion. I find the combat continues to improve and the game is decent. Might not be what we all thought it would be but those like myself, it is something different. I praise them for trying.

For those curious to see a gamer who mastered the combat, watch this video. Truly inspiring-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I2fnAk8nf8

[TheSaiyanGod]

Some random fishing mini-game is funny the first few times, but it gets stale real quick.

In fact, fishing is not just a flashy feature, it is something that really helps the character progress and is useful before battles. Naturally after a while it gets tiring, but you can't just ignore it because it's important for the character, this is interesting