Original BGM with the broadcast audio

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GhostEmperorX
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Original BGM with the broadcast audio

Post by GhostEmperorX » Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:09 pm

As some may know, I initially couldn't stand the score composed by Shunsuke Kikuchi, since I thought that the recording quality for most of it was way too old and it sounded like something I'd hear in 60's or 70's Western cartoons I used to watch (and later on found out that it's very much like the 70's anime and other material that he also worked on), meanwhile I'd heard what I considered to be better in other media that came out at similar time periods. I certainly thought that at least a show as iconic and popular as this could have had better material on that front.
But now, after getting an idea on what the BGM was actually meant to do, thinking about just what kind of creator that Akira Toriyama is, and most importantly, re-watching at least 10 full episodes of the show in the proper JP broadcast audio (so far, and not just clips or snippets either), I don't have any more problems with it. The kind of stuff I was suggesting (which is the kind of orchestral material that other concurrent anime series were using) probably wouldn't even work for a show like DB or Z to begin with, it's structured far too differently from everything else. I also think the inferior optical audio played a part in this earlier negative perception.
My opinion of it hasn't exactly been elevated to the same level as that of certain other JP scores (replacement ones from the U.S. not counting at all due to terrible overall implementation) also from the 80's onward, but I'm perfectly fine with it now and can understand why others are too. It's certainly not the show for grandiose scores even if some parts of it do look like such.

And it even sounds fine in DBZ: Kakarot where it's redone but with some different instruments and what seems to be better production quality in general.

I would like to ask though, among those of you who do like and prefer it (which I'm assuming is a lot of this community, especially if you're not from America), are there any specific scenes at all where you may not be the most satisfied with it when it's on?

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TheGreatness25
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Re: Original BGM with the broadcast audio

Post by TheGreatness25 » Tue May 05, 2020 1:35 pm

Hey. I know that this thread has some age on it, but a specific scene jumps to mind where I really disliked the Japanese score.

The scene is when old Kaioshin told Gohan to power up to attain his new power. This was in Dragon Ball Z, episode 262, roughly 16:20 into it (counting the intro). Gohan starts powering up to the tune of Dragon Ball Z BGM Collection's track "Theatrical Dragon Ball Z Suites: Super-Warrior Defeat!! I'm the One Who'll Win." I thought that it was very bad placement and made what was supposed to be an epic moment, into something that was accompanied by goofy circus music.

In contrast, I think that this was one of Funimation's best music placements, as "Gohan Powers Up" is not only one of my favorite Faulconer tracks, but I think it matched the moment very well.

https://youtu.be/UzRf41NO3Qg
What could have been if it wasn't so "synthy."

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Re: Original BGM with the broadcast audio

Post by GhostEmperorX » Thu May 07, 2020 9:27 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 1:35 pm
Hey. I know that this thread has some age on it, but a specific scene jumps to mind where I really disliked the Japanese score.
Well there wasn't really any response and it's still within the same year so I suppose it's fine.
The scene is when old Kaioshin told Gohan to power up to attain his new power. This was in Dragon Ball Z, episode 262, roughly 16:20 into it (counting the intro). Gohan starts powering up to the tune of Dragon Ball Z BGM Collection's track "Theatrical Dragon Ball Z Suites: Super-Warrior Defeat!! I'm the One Who'll Win." I thought that it was very bad placement and made what was supposed to be an epic moment, into something that was accompanied by goofy circus music.

In contrast, I think that this was one of Funimation's best music placements, as "Gohan Powers Up" is not only one of my favorite Faulconer tracks, but I think it matched the moment very well.

https://youtu.be/UzRf41NO3Qg
What could have been if it wasn't so "synthy."
I get what you're saying, but do you know a track from any other anime at the time that you think would fit it or do something close? Since regardless of getting it right, the overall handling of the Faulconer team's score wasn't the best (as it is with lots of replacement scores) so I wouldn't like to use that for a comparison in any way.
Maybe something along the lines of this or some other track?
Not the exact one, but something like it.

Also, while I like that remix and the other orchestral ones like it, it sounds way too majestic when juxtaposed with DB's animation style. Needs to be toned down a little here and there to fit with the show, maybe swap a few instruments out for others.

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TheGreatness25
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Re: Original BGM with the broadcast audio

Post by TheGreatness25 » Thu May 07, 2020 10:43 am

I think that even another Kikuchi track would fit the scene better. Even an instrumental of "WE GOTTA POWER" or "We Were Angels" would fit much better (both instruments exist, so I'm not customizing this). Or something like "Son Goku Really is the Strongest!!" The track might need to be called something different after that lol I'd even think it would be nice if "Day of Destiny: Spirit vs. Spirit" was put in there to call back to Gohan's last great power gain.

But the music originally put into that scene did not do it for me one bit.

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Re: Original BGM with the broadcast audio

Post by GhostEmperorX » Thu May 07, 2020 3:46 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 10:43 am
I think that even another Kikuchi track would fit the scene better. Even an instrumental of "WE GOTTA POWER" or "We Were Angels" would fit much better (both instruments exist, so I'm not customizing this). Or something like "Son Goku Really is the Strongest!!" The track might need to be called something different after that lol I'd even think it would be nice if "Day of Destiny: Spirit vs. Spirit" was put in there to call back to Gohan's last great power gain.

But the music originally put into that scene did not do it for me one bit.
I understand, those would have worked too, since Kikuchi made orchestral versions of those two songs. In this situation the blame is on whoever was directing the music at Toei since they elected to just take stuff from the movies rather than make the BGM's for the show itself.

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Re: Original BGM with the broadcast audio

Post by Witty User Name » Fri May 08, 2020 3:37 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 1:35 pm
Hey. I know that this thread has some age on it, but a specific scene jumps to mind where I really disliked the Japanese score.

The scene is when old Kaioshin told Gohan to power up to attain his new power. This was in Dragon Ball Z, episode 262, roughly 16:20 into it (counting the intro). Gohan starts powering up to the tune of Dragon Ball Z BGM Collection's track "Theatrical Dragon Ball Z Suites: Super-Warrior Defeat!! I'm the One Who'll Win." I thought that it was very bad placement and made what was supposed to be an epic moment, into something that was accompanied by goofy circus music.

In contrast, I think that this was one of Funimation's best music placements, as "Gohan Powers Up" is not only one of my favorite Faulconer tracks, but I think it matched the moment very well.

https://youtu.be/UzRf41NO3Qg
What could have been if it wasn't so "synthy."
Oh man I did not remember that Japanese scene. The score here really is awful, I've never noticed it before. I do not know what on Earth they were thinking, especially since later music placements (such as when Goku finally defeats Buu) are the series most iconic's.

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Re: Original BGM with the broadcast audio

Post by TheGreatness25 » Fri May 08, 2020 7:25 am

Witty User Name wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 3:37 am
Oh man I did not remember that Japanese scene. The score here really is awful, I've never noticed it before. I do not know what on Earth they were thinking, especially since later music placements (such as when Goku finally defeats Buu) are the series most iconic's.
Right? This scene has stuck with me from the moment that I saw it in Japanese for the first time amd immediately jumps to mind whenever thinking about what the replacement score did better. Mind you, I can't think of any other moments like that lol

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Re: Original BGM with the broadcast audio

Post by GhostEmperorX » Tue May 12, 2020 3:50 pm

Witty User Name wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 3:37 am

Oh man I did not remember that Japanese scene. The score here really is awful, I've never noticed it before. I do not know what on Earth they were thinking, especially since later music placements (such as when Goku finally defeats Buu) are the series most iconic's.
Maybe they didn't exactly care that much about music placement in lots of areas or didn't know what to do.

There's also the scene where Vegeta attacks Cell to give Gohan the upper hand, it seemed like an abrupt jump cut.

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Re: Original BGM with the broadcast audio

Post by Majin Buu » Wed May 13, 2020 12:09 pm

Since it's the topic of the thread:

I've seen the original broadcast audio talked about quite a bit here and know that it is very sought after.

But does it improve the experience of watching the show enough to recommend seeking it out? Or is it just something hardcore completionists pursue?

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Re: Original BGM with the broadcast audio

Post by Robo4900 » Wed May 13, 2020 3:29 pm

Majin Buu wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 12:09 pm
Since it's the topic of the thread:

I've seen the original broadcast audio talked about quite a bit here and know that it is very sought after.

But does it improve the experience of watching the show enough to recommend seeking it out? Or is it just something hardcore completionists pursue?
Here's an audio comparison from OG DB; broadcast audio first, then the officially-available optical from Dragon Box.

And here's a comparison from GT: optical vs broadcast. GT is a particularly special case, as the optical of GT is mono, while the broadcast audio is stereo (at least, from episode 5 onwards). GT's audio also exists from the original audio masters, so the "Broadcast audio" for GT actually comes from recent Japanese TV airings (why the master audio wasn't used on any DVD releases is anyone's guess; probably just Toei and Funi being lazy and negligent), so it's a good bit nicer-sounding than the broadcast audio of DB and Z. Though compared to the original optical, both DB/Z and GT are excellent-sounding.

Personally, I have no plans to watch Dragon Ball from the optical audio ever again; the broadcast audio is a rather significant upgrade.

(Though, FWIW, broadcast audio is no longer "sought after"... All of DB, Z, and GT now have broadcast audio available and out in the open. Some episodes have glitches, and I wish there was the opportunity for further sources to present themselves to fix this, but at this juncture, it is unlikely; collectors who have this stuff have been soured by all the drama that went down, so they don't want to share anymore. But, we have all of DB, Z, and GT in great quality now, so I'm pretty pleased on the whole. Certainly we've come out of this far better than fans of Dr Slump or Fist Of The North Star, each of which only have a handful of episodes' broadcast audio in the open)
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Re: Original BGM with the broadcast audio

Post by GhostEmperorX » Thu May 14, 2020 2:49 pm

Majin Buu wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 12:09 pm
Since it's the topic of the thread:

I've seen the original broadcast audio talked about quite a bit here and know that it is very sought after.

But does it improve the experience of watching the show enough to recommend seeking it out? Or is it just something hardcore completionists pursue?
Well, knowing that you've been watching it in garbage quality all this time and made several misconceptions about the JP version is quite the impetus, don't know what else would get me to watch that version again to begin with.
Robo4900 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 3:29 pm
GT's audio also exists from the original audio masters, so the "Broadcast audio" for GT actually comes from recent Japanese TV airings (why the master audio wasn't used on any DVD releases is anyone's guess; probably just Toei and Funi being lazy and negligent), so it's a good bit nicer-sounding than the broadcast audio of DB and Z.

collectors who have this stuff have been soured by all the drama that went down, so they don't want to share anymore.
Wouldn't put that bit past them.
Not even sure what kind of greedy scumbags caused this kind of drama anyway.

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Re: Original BGM with the broadcast audio

Post by bkev » Tue May 19, 2020 9:25 pm

Hi,
Sporadic lurker chiming in to offer an opinion. As someone accustomed to the optical audio and the Japanese voices, I found it didn't drastically change my enjoyment experience. For me, it was a bonus and nothing more.

However, if you haven't been able to get past the quality beforehand, I think it would be worth the while to try again. It's a night and day difference, especially if the optical audio's age has distracted you in the past. Consider flipping through so-called iconic moments and notice if you feel differently towards it with the higher fidelity.
[quote="Brakus"]For all the flack that FUNimation gets on this forum for their quote about DBZ, there's some modicum of truth to it: a 9-year-old is born every day. Or in some cases, "reborn". DBZ may be a kids' show, but it's been so close to so many hearts all over Japan, America, and quite possibly, even the world.[/quote]

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Re: Original BGM with the broadcast audio

Post by GhostEmperorX » Fri May 22, 2020 1:22 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 7:25 am
Right? This scene has stuck with me from the moment that I saw it in Japanese for the first time amd immediately jumps to mind whenever thinking about what the replacement score did better. Mind you, I can't think of any other moments like that lol
https://youtu.be/G9d-Rhuny7o
It was this scene you were talking about, right?

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Re: Original BGM with the broadcast audio

Post by TheGreatness25 » Fri May 22, 2020 3:08 pm

GhostEmperorX wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 1:22 pm
TheGreatness25 wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 7:25 am
Right? This scene has stuck with me from the moment that I saw it in Japanese for the first time amd immediately jumps to mind whenever thinking about what the replacement score did better. Mind you, I can't think of any other moments like that lol
https://youtu.be/G9d-Rhuny7o
It was this scene you were talking about, right?
Yes it is.

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