Dragon Ball Z/3/Budokai Series Official Soundtrack CD's: Impossible to Find?

Discussion regarding any musical aspect of the franchise, from game soundtracks to BGM to remixes. Upcoming & classic CDs, reviews, where to find them, and more!

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Thanos
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1488
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:33 am
Location: San Antonio, TX

Dragon Ball Z/3/Budokai Series Official Soundtrack CD's: Impossible to Find?

Post by Thanos » Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:47 pm

I remember years ago seeing the soundtracks on CDJapan and eBay and a few other places for fairly reasonable prices. I understand the plagiarism controversy probably caused them to be pulled from stores, but that doesn't explain their consistent absence from eBay--were they simply all snatched up after the plagiarism controversy? I still wouldn't mind getting my hands on them as they are some of my favorite game soundtracks (I barely even give a shit about the plagiarism; Kikuchi is a hell of an arranger of music). Does anyone know of any other perhaps obscure sources where I might find them? Or perhaps willing to part with theirs? :)
Thanos before Thanos was cool.

User avatar
coola
I Live Here
Posts: 3050
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 7:33 am
Location: Poland

Re: Dragon Ball Z/3/Budokai Series Official Soundtrack CD's: Impossible to Find?

Post by coola » Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:57 pm

I recommend checking out Ebay from time to time, unfortunately, there is no B3 soundtrack currently, but i found B1 and 2 :) https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dragon-Ball-Z- ... Swnstf38Ia
My Twitter: @kamil198811
Bulma fan
Thanks to Discotek:
Magic Knight Rayearth get DVD release in 2015 and Blu-Ray release on 2016
Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas get DVD release in 2015

User avatar
TheGreatness25
I Live Here
Posts: 4351
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:36 am

Re: Dragon Ball Z/3/Budokai Series Official Soundtrack CD's: Impossible to Find?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:51 am

I don't know if plagiarism issues really had anything to do with it; those two game soundtracks are available on Apple Music.

Also, I don't really fully totally see what the big deal is. Don't get me wrong -- if that's not what Toei wanted, then fine. But to make a huge deal out of it when for decades, wrestling (for example) has been making its own in-house version of famous music that they didn't want to pay licensing fees for. In a world of cover bands and all that stuff, there really is no reason to go overboard pulling all the music off of store shelves (or their digital counterparts).

In Apple Music or Spotify or whatever, I guarantee that you'd find allllll sorts of covers, "remixes," etc. without the owners' permission.

Again, I'm not saying that Yamamoto's plagiarism was ethical, and I think Toei was fully within their right to move away from him and replace all of Kai's score if they didn't want that for their music. But I also think that maybe everyone took it a little too far. As I've said: it's happened forever.

User avatar
MCDaveG
I Live Here
Posts: 4960
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:54 pm
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Z/3/Budokai Series Official Soundtrack CD's: Impossible to Find?

Post by MCDaveG » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:18 pm

There wasn't as much plagiarism as homages to me from musical standpoint... only crazy thefts really happened in Dragon Ball Kai, like the Ebb & Flow which was note for note copy of James Horner's War from Avatar and that was baaaaaad.
It was funny, I never finished Avatar as I really didn't like the movie from start, so I haven't heard the score really, but when I heard it in the series premiere, I was like wow, Yamamoto is really great and I don't mind not having Kikuchi around :lol:

But even Guilty Gear does homages like those simmilar things in Budokai, as it is game which has a theme based on homages of Rock bands.
FighterZ: Funky_Strudel
PS4: Dynamixx88

User avatar
TheGreatness25
I Live Here
Posts: 4351
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:36 am

Re: Dragon Ball Z/3/Budokai Series Official Soundtrack CD's: Impossible to Find?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:15 am

Now, I don't know what Yamamoto was thinking, but sometimes, it just happens. Something gets stuck in your head and you unintentionally end up making a copy of something else. That's a hard argument to make judging by how much was plagiarized in Kai, but I'm assuming that it's not so rare for audiophiles who make their own music.

And oftentimes, artists end up copying themselves because that's just what comes to their head.

Now, look at the soundtrack for the Broly movie. The second I heard the main Broly theme, it screamed "Robocop" to me. No, not the fast, hard main theme, but the slow version that would play during emotional scenes (like when he was in his old house, I think). And then I heard "Paragus's Rage" and there's a moment where it straight up goes into the Terminator theme.

These things happen.

User avatar
MCDaveG
I Live Here
Posts: 4960
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:54 pm
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Z/3/Budokai Series Official Soundtrack CD's: Impossible to Find?

Post by MCDaveG » Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:42 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:15 am
Now, I don't know what Yamamoto was thinking, but sometimes, it just happens. Something gets stuck in your head and you unintentionally end up making a copy of something else. That's a hard argument to make judging by how much was plagiarized in Kai, but I'm assuming that it's not so rare for audiophiles who make their own music.

And oftentimes, artists end up copying themselves because that's just what comes to their head.

Now, look at the soundtrack for the Broly movie. The second I heard the main Broly theme, it screamed "Robocop" to me. No, not the fast, hard main theme, but the slow version that would play during emotional scenes (like when he was in his old house, I think). And then I heard "Paragus's Rage" and there's a moment where it straight up goes into the Terminator theme.

These things happen.
Yeah, it's called paying homage. Everyone does that, even people like John Williams. You use similar rhythms or ideas.
For example, when I do music myself, you hear some awesome bassline and I am like OK, let's play with it and end up with something else.

But when you copy something note for note, like Yamamoto did, or hell Ice Ice Baby from Vanilla Ice is straight out riff sampled from Queen, even if the court ruled out differently. And Ebb And Flow is definitely not homage but straight rip off of James Horner's Avatar.
You just can't copy song note for note and just change the instruments, that's cover... and pass it up as original soundtrack for prolific TV show is straight out madness. And Yamamoto did ton of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J028VW2Xl8

To be fair tho, the alleged Chic cover or Deep Purple is pass by my standards, it's simmilar, but distinct enough for my ears to let it go.

But Yamamoto is really insane :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gJT2-nqHG0
FighterZ: Funky_Strudel
PS4: Dynamixx88

User avatar
PurestEvil
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:34 pm
Location: Constantinopolee!

Re: Dragon Ball Z/3/Budokai Series Official Soundtrack CD's: Impossible to Find?

Post by PurestEvil » Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:39 pm

MCDaveG wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:42 am
.....when you copy something note for note, like Yamamoto did, or hell Ice Ice Baby from Vanilla Ice is straight out riff sampled from Queen, even if the court ruled out differently. And Ebb And Flow is definitely not homage but straight rip off of James Horner's Avatar.
You just can't copy song note for note and just change the instruments, that's cover... and pass it up as original soundtrack for prolific TV show is straight out madness. And Yamamoto did ton of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J028VW2Xl8

To be fair tho, the alleged Chic cover or Deep Purple is pass by my standards, it's simmilar, but distinct enough for my ears to let it go.

But Yamamoto is really insane :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gJT2-nqHG0
I did not actually look into how Yamamoto composed his work until now, and I have to say, I cannot BELIEVE that he actually had the gall to copy SUCCESSFUL songs like September and Iron Man, even from famous bands like the Beatles and Disturbed.
Is it that big of a surprise he was caught, then?
This post was brought to you by 魔族

User avatar
TheGreatness25
I Live Here
Posts: 4351
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:36 am

Re: Dragon Ball Z/3/Budokai Series Official Soundtrack CD's: Impossible to Find?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:56 pm

Yeah, I would've never caught something that he ripped off from the Avatar movie because I couldn't pick out a melody from that movie to save my life. The ones I instantly recognized were the Terminator Salvation theme ripoff and the Goro (MK 1 movie) theme ripoff.

User avatar
MCDaveG
I Live Here
Posts: 4960
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:54 pm
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Z/3/Budokai Series Official Soundtrack CD's: Impossible to Find?

Post by MCDaveG » Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:57 am

What I didn't knew about and really caught me off-guard is him stealing Yoko Kanno's work from Cowboy Bebop.
I really wonder what was this guy thinking.
FighterZ: Funky_Strudel
PS4: Dynamixx88

User avatar
PurestEvil
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:34 pm
Location: Constantinopolee!

Re: Dragon Ball Z/3/Budokai Series Official Soundtrack CD's: Impossible to Find?

Post by PurestEvil » Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:58 am

MCDaveG wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:57 am
What I didn't knew about and really caught me off-guard is him stealing Yoko Kanno's work from Cowboy Bebop.
I really wonder what was this guy thinking.
Maybe he thought that Kikuchi's work was not exciting enough :wink:
This post was brought to you by 魔族

User avatar
MCDaveG
I Live Here
Posts: 4960
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:54 pm
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Z/3/Budokai Series Official Soundtrack CD's: Impossible to Find?

Post by MCDaveG » Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:28 am

PurestEvil wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:58 am
MCDaveG wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:57 am
What I didn't knew about and really caught me off-guard is him stealing Yoko Kanno's work from Cowboy Bebop.
I really wonder what was this guy thinking.
Maybe he thought that Kikuchi's work was not exciting enough :wink:
No, but seriously... you are part of music industry, trained musician, so you know the theory... just my head doesn't wraps around this.
It's like me being a graphic designer, would copy McDonalds logo for a McLaren cars and just changed the colour to blue for example
and think it's looking great and everything is good. Like, it doesn't make a speck of sense!

And sure, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and other rock music is more exciting than Kikuchi's BGM, also depends on taste.
But what these guys have in common? They produced their own original music and were artists in their own right.
As for Kenji Yamamoto, besides arranging music, he really isn't a composer, more like a cover band at backwater town festivals.
He's not a composer for me anymore after all this, just a dumb person from the music scene point of view and untallented composer that somehow got where he wasn't supposed to be.
FighterZ: Funky_Strudel
PS4: Dynamixx88

User avatar
TheGreatness25
I Live Here
Posts: 4351
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:36 am

Re: Dragon Ball Z/3/Budokai Series Official Soundtrack CD's: Impossible to Find?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:58 am

Yeah, it's hard to really hold him in high regard after the blatant plagiarism, but as I've said, it's existed for a long time. I'll just point to wrestling again, where real music (or music from other promotions) get copied all the time. You can call it "homage," but what's the difference? At the end of the day, someone says, "I like this sound from someone else, so I'm going to replicate it." Every act of plagiarism is an "homage" really.

User avatar
PurestEvil
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:34 pm
Location: Constantinopolee!

Re: Dragon Ball Z/3/Budokai Series Official Soundtrack CD's: Impossible to Find?

Post by PurestEvil » Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:29 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:58 am
Yeah, it's hard to really hold him in high regard after the blatant plagiarism, but as I've said, it's existed for a long time. I'll just point to wrestling again, where real music (or music from other promotions) get copied all the time. You can call it "homage," but what's the difference? At the end of the day, someone says, "I like this sound from someone else, so I'm going to replicate it." Every act of plagiarism is an "homage" really.
If a composer quotes or samples another song and makes something new with it, then it can be a homage.
When a composer rips the melodies of well known songs time and time again, then it seems to do more with laziness than paying homage.
This post was brought to you by 魔族

User avatar
TheGreatness25
I Live Here
Posts: 4351
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:36 am

Re: Dragon Ball Z/3/Budokai Series Official Soundtrack CD's: Impossible to Find?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:49 pm

I agree, but when an artist samples another song, can't you say that they're too lazy or uncreative enough that they just used someone else's work that they already know is good?

Would the argument be different if Yamamoto changed one chord or added/removed a chord? It would be "something new" and maybe even be disguised better, but at the end of the day, it would still be plagiarism.

User avatar
PurestEvil
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:34 pm
Location: Constantinopolee!

Re: Dragon Ball Z/3/Budokai Series Official Soundtrack CD's: Impossible to Find?

Post by PurestEvil » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:31 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:49 pm
I agree, but when an artist samples another song, can't you say that they're too lazy or uncreative enough that they just used someone else's work that they already know is good?
It really depends how they use it. If it has creative value, then it is okay in my book.
This post was brought to you by 魔族

Big Boss
Regular
Posts: 615
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 11:07 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Z/3/Budokai Series Official Soundtrack CD's: Impossible to Find?

Post by Big Boss » Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:25 am

MCDaveG wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:57 am
What I didn't knew about and really caught me off-guard is him stealing Yoko Kanno's work from Cowboy Bebop.
I really wonder what was this guy thinking.
Yoko Kanno is a massive plagiarist herself, and it's a wonder how she is still working given the amount she has blatantly ripped off over the years.
TheGreatness25 wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:49 pm
Would the argument be different if Yamamoto changed one chord or added/removed a chord? It would be "something new" and maybe even be disguised better, but at the end of the day, it would still be plagiarism.
The vast majority of Yamamoto's disputed works fall under this category though. It's not like he took all of the source songs, chord for chord, melody for melody, and threw them in a song with no changes. People love to over exaggerate this for some reason. Still plagiarism in the eyes of the law? Most definitely, but to claim he did nothing when creating his own "arrangements" is seriously downplaying his talents as an arranger and producer of music. Everything must be viewed from a legal perspective, but his technical ability as an arranger was beyond outstanding.

Now some songs, yes, he did go overboard and blatantly/lazily ripped with zero changes. This I have no excuses for, especially in his later career with Kai. Pure laziness on his part and he should have known Toei would catch wind and take action.

Post Reply