Haunting Chorus [The World Is Healed] - M1023 or M1017?

Discussion regarding any musical aspect of the franchise, from game soundtracks to BGM to remixes. Upcoming & classic CDs, reviews, where to find them, and more!

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
BladeXRG
Newbie
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:50 pm
Location: Argentina
Contact:

Haunting Chorus [The World Is Healed] - M1023 or M1017?

Post by BladeXRG » Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:28 pm

While I was rewatching movie 3 to make an improved version of the BGM Daizenshuu that Kenisu made years ago, I figured out that at minute 40:23 (on FUNimation's singles) M1023 plays after M1016; it is trimmed but it does play.
Since the fact that it's trimmed doesn't justify it not being M1017 because there are other tracks that were trimmed on their first used during their movies (like M2110), what if all this time M1023 was actually an incorrectly number? What if it is actually M1017? We already have incorrectly labelled tracks (such as "M814" which is M814A and "M814A" which is M814B, and "M1819" which is actually a replay of M1520 and not M1524)
This leads to another question: what if "M1017" is just a sound effect or stock music? In my opinion it is just a sound effect, which obviously was never labelled; even though I would like to know your opinions. You can hear it being used after M1016 here.

If you're interested on my improved Z movies BGM Daizenshuu, click here.

User avatar
kenisu3000
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:32 am
Location: Places and stuff...
Contact:

Re: Haunting Chorus [The World Is Healed] - M1023 or M1017?

Post by kenisu3000 » Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:07 pm

I revised the cue sheets for the DBZ movies back when I did the same for the OG DragonBall movies. I simply never got around to putting the Z revisions online. Same for the tenth anniversary movie (Path to Ultimate Strength). Guess that's something I ought to add to my to-do list in a few days, as soon as I'm back from the holidays and have my notes handy again.

It is true that the booklets have errors and we don't always get the correct M-numbers, but my guess is that the number M1023 is correct, and that the earlier instance of "The World Is Healed" (my title) was either tracked in to replace silence, or to replace an unused cue, or that it's actually a separate recording from the later instance, each composed for their respective scenes (in which case both M1017 and M1023 would be similar but separate cues).

If the carnival music is stock, it's from Toei's own created stock instead of from an outside library music label: It uses the theme song from DR. SLUMP ARALE-CHAN.

Personally, I've always wondered about "Showdown (Final Bridge)" (again, my title). It uses a choir like "Healed", along with a snatch of the same melody, but isn't the same recording, and appears to be nothing more than a short bridge. What's more, it sort of feels "jammed in there", you might say, the way it cuts off the previous cue in an unnatural way.

My theory goes like this: As originally composed by Kikuchi, the scene where Gohan returns to normal and Goku catches him was meant to be silent until the shot where, after swearing to defeat Tullece, Goku gives the villain a deathstare, at which point "Showdown" would play for its few seconds. When the score was fully recorded and the music editor got to work on the film, maybe he decided to switch things up a bit between those two scenes, planting "Showdown" for some reason on the wide shot of the Tree just before Goku and Tullece exchange fire. If my theory is right, that would mean that, somewhere between the unused M1018 (which I've taken to calling "Spectator Tullece") and "Healed", there's another unused cue, to bring the numbers up to M1023 once we reach the next officially known number.
BGM forever! If only more people paid attention to it... well, I intend to change that.

User avatar
BladeXRG
Newbie
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:50 pm
Location: Argentina
Contact:

Re: Haunting Chorus [The World Is Healed] - M1023 or M1017?

Post by BladeXRG » Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:44 pm

kenisu3000 wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:07 pm I revised the cue sheets for the DBZ movies back when I did the same for the OG DragonBall movies. I simply never got around to putting the Z revisions online. Same for the tenth anniversary movie (Path to Ultimate Strength). Guess that's something I ought to add to my to-do list in a few days, as soon as I'm back from the holidays and have my notes handy again.

It is true that the booklets have errors and we don't always get the correct M-numbers, but my guess is that the number M1023 is correct, and that the earlier instance of "The World Is Healed" (my title) was either tracked in to replace silence, or to replace an unused cue, or that it's actually a separate recording from the later instance, each composed for their respective scenes (in which case both M1017 and M1023 would be similar but separate cues).

If the carnival music is stock, it's from Toei's own created stock instead of from an outside library music label: It uses the theme song from DR. SLUMP ARALE-CHAN.

Personally, I've always wondered about "Showdown (Final Bridge)" (again, my title). It uses a choir like "Healed", along with a snatch of the same melody, but isn't the same recording, and appears to be nothing more than a short bridge. What's more, it sort of feels "jammed in there", you might say, the way it cuts off the previous cue in an unnatural way.

My theory goes like this: As originally composed by Kikuchi, the scene where Gohan returns to normal and Goku catches him was meant to be silent until the shot where, after swearing to defeat Tullece, Goku gives the villain a deathstare, at which point "Showdown" would play for its few seconds. When the score was fully recorded and the music editor got to work on the film, maybe he decided to switch things up a bit between those two scenes, planting "Showdown" for some reason on the wide shot of the Tree just before Goku and Tullece exchange fire. If my theory is right, that would mean that, somewhere between the unused M1018 (which I've taken to calling "Spectator Tullece") and "Healed", there's another unused cue, to bring the numbers up to M1023 once we reach the next officially known number.
That's actually a good theory. Since Haunted Chorus (how I think I'm going to refer to it from now on since it fits both scenes better) is poorly trimmed and you can hear a bit of the first part of the track, it could probably be just a replacement for the oddly placed M1022. If this is true that means that there is, in fact, an unused cue that wasn't released. Which one could it be though?

Since, according to the theory, The Carnival Shuts Down is just a track from Dr. Slump (tracks external to the movie and replays aren't labelled in the booklets) and we both assume that Showdown shouldn't have played during that shot of the Shinseiju, it is very likely that there was another unusued cue after M1018. Where though?

In my opinion, and I repeat, my opinion, there is a pretty weird silence during the shots of Earth being consumed by the Shinseiju. I know, I know, from a point of view it's a pretty childish reason, but honestly I can't really think any other place for an unused cue... I guess I'll just label it as M1023 and put a note saying there is probably another unused cue...

So, according to me, that would make every track from Tullece Eats The Fruit go after the M1020, and with this Showdown would be just M1017, making both M1018 and M1019 unused tracks. Don't know if you agree with that but this is really confusing so I'm trying my best to think on something.

User avatar
Rafa Fast
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 423
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:18 pm

Re: Haunting Chorus [The World Is Healed] - M1023 or M1017?

Post by Rafa Fast » Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:57 pm

Sorry for resurrecting another dead thread, but I really think this is a interesting one
First, I disagree with the theory that M1022 wasn't composed for that shot of the Tree of Might right after M1021, and I also disagree about M1023 being M1017, these are my reasons:
Kikuchi's intention with the leitmotif of the Tree of Might (Shinseiju) is very clear, the theme just plays in his compositions in moments where the Tree of Might is a major element of the scene, M1004 plays when Piccolo and Yamcha sense the ki of the tree, M1006 when Haiya Dragon senses the ki of the tree and preceds it's growth, M1007 when the Tree is growning, M1008 when we see a shot of the full tree for the first time, M1009 when Kaio tells the story of the Tree, M1010 when the Tree appears in perfect state after the Team Beam attack, the last half of M1012 when the screen switches to shots of the tree raising in random places of the Earth while Turles talks about the Tree consuming it, the half of M1021 before the ending plays when a fruit of the tree is show, M1022 when another shot of the tree appears, and M1023 when the tree dies, and Kaio talks about it's end. With this, we can all notice that the theme just is meant to play in moments where the Tree is very important, now...that moment where Goku saves Gohan and faces Turles, do they even talk about the tree? Exactly, no, the tree is not a major element in that moment, so, if a unreleased nevrr heard track for that scene was composed, then, it would probably have Turles theme, or Goku's second theme, but not the Shinseiju theme.
Second, M1023 fits the moment post-Turles' death very well, it syncs with the scene passage, the part after the first choir section starts exactly when the scene switches to Kaio saying his final monologue, then the final choir section plays when the scene switches back to the current state of the Tree and Earth, you can try your best, but M1023 in the scene where Goku saves Gohan and faces Turles won't sync so well like in the scene I mentioned previously, and the placement of this track after M1016 definitely sounds like something amateur.
With all this in mind, well, I always thought M1017 sounded weird, So yes, I believe in the theory that the M1017 we know may not belong to the movie score, and that there is a unused cue that is the real M1017, It's totally possible, after all, let's imagine if M1018 was never released, how would we know that there was meant to play a track during the fight of Goku vs Turles' men/Piccolo vs Turles with the code M1018?
I simply wouldn't want to imagine my life without Dragon Ball, thank you Akira Toriyama (1955-2024), you are now immortal.

Post Reply