Wow, the Japanese soundtrack is horrible!

[Innagadadavida]

I thought the GT score was pretty basic. Aside from a few really good tracks, I don't remember much of it and I actually disliked a few songs from it. It really helped alienate GT, IMO. Kukichi does and always will have, the best score for Dragon Ball. I can't speak for Yamamoto with Kai because I've watched a total of 4 minutes of the show, but I do really like a lot of his video game music, so if it's anything like that, I'm on board.

The Falconor studios score is pretty cool too. I don't have much sentimental attachment, but I always felt like it highlighted the sci-fi aspect of Dragon Ball Z. I do very much like watching the Cell and Buu sagas with the English dub and broadcast music. It's like eating a fried twinkie.

[mystic trunks]

I actually like the Kai music better than the Original Japanese score.

[Sebastian (SB)]

I think it's obvious that a newer generation of fans or fans that like the Falcouner score will like the Kai score more. It takes after Kikuchi's orchestral route without all the jazz and other instruments of that age period of anime (70s-80s). It's more modernized to say the least. But as penguintruth pointed out, there's hardly any variety to it so far. Who knows, it may likely change once we hit the Cell arc.

[MCDaveG]

Damn, Kai score reminds me those early days I played Super Butouden series a lot. It's a lot simmilar in some pieces to this original stuff.

[Tenken]

Mystic was comparing the original DBZ score to cheesy Martial Arts films. It actually reminds me more of old Godzilla movies. o.o

As much as I hate to admit it, I don't really think Dragon Ball Z would have caught on here in America without the music being changed. DBZ was like a gateway drug for me, personally. Rock the Dragon made me WANT to watch the show. If I had seen Cha-la Head Cha-la as the opening on the TBS way back when I probably would have said "what is this shit!?" and changed the channel. Funimation/Pioneer "sold-out" and it paid off for them.

I have tested this theory on my nephews, mind you (yes, I know...verrrry scientific). They have no interest in Japanese Dragon Ball. So if you think that companies can survive by only appealing only to the hardcore otaku, I have three words for you: Bandai Visual USA.

Now, with that said, I have a lot of respect for the Japanese score. Admittedly though, even with that my favorite songs are the insert songs ("Battle Power Infinity","Spirit vs. Spirit", etc.). But don't get it twisted, I believe that the original music should NOT have been altered. I'm just saying that I understand why they did it.

Even the people on the boards here have a logical reason for preferring the Japanese score other than the good 'ol "japan is better" argument. Personally, I also love the fact that silence is a part of the soundtrack.

I don't think Bruce Falconer is necessarily a -bad- composer. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Mystic: your opinion of the Japanese soundtrack doesn't make you any less of a DBZ fan than anyone else on this board, but you DO realize that most of the people here prefer the Japanese version of the show, right?

[VegettoEX]

As much as I hate to admit it, I don't really think Dragon Ball Z would have caught on here in America without the music being changed. DBZ was like a gateway drug for me, personally. Rock the Dragon made me WANT to watch the show. If I had seen Cha-la Head Cha-la as the opening on the TBS way back when I probably would have said "what is this shit!?" and changed the channel. Funimation/Pioneer "sold-out" and it paid off for them.

"HEAD-CHA-LA" itself as a song played on American TV in 1996? I'm pretty with ya'. The actual BGM itself? Never would have been a problem. Never. Not in a million years. There wouldn't be a single complaint about it from general dub fandom if it was kept. You rarely see them complaining about its usage in the original DB, and when they do, it's always half-assed arguments about how the tone of the show was different blah blah blah, using terrible examples with nothing other than general dub splooging to try and back it up. It's like they don't even want to talk about it, because they know there's no conversation to be had.

Bandai Visual USA

The problem there was $90 DVDs, plain and simple. Nothing more, nothing less.

but you DO realize that most of the people here prefer the Japanese version of the show, right?

Debatable. Just because we say that's what the board is geared toward (and, of course, this is all based on the actual website that it's an extension of)... that doesn't mean that the general population of this board prefers Kikuchi.

I... think... that's true...?

There's absolutely no way of knowing, short of a completely unscientific poll that members are required to partake in, perhaps upon registration. But what about those that are already members? And those who change opinions over time?

[cRookie_Monster]

I don't think Bruce Falconer is necessarily a -bad- composer. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Inspite of my beef with the guy and his ways...the man is an AMAZING composer. Unfortunately virutally no-one here has actually heard B. Faulconer in his true element. Given actual resources, time, and freedom the man could wipe the floor with Kukichi easily. Instead he ended up relying on fresh college talent, crappy MIDI synths, a super rushed schedule, and Funimation's conceptions of what the DBZ score should have been.
I sympathize with him 100% on that part.

The actual BGM itself? Never would have been a problem. Never. Not in a million years. There wouldn't be a single complaint about it from general dub fandom if it was kept. You rarely see them complaining about its usage in the original DB, and when they do, it's always half-assed arguments about how the tone of the show was different blah blah blah, using terrible examples with nothing other than general dub splooging to try and back it up. It's like they don't even want to talk about it, because they know there's no conversation to be had.

DB is a totally different show. The original score was a lot more fitting than it was for DBZ. Even for me I have zero complaints about the Japanese DB score but plenty for the Japanese DBZ score. The problem was it didn't seem to grow up along with the show.

[JulieYBM]

DB is a totally different show. The original score was a lot more fitting than it was for DBZ. Even for me I have zero complaints about the Japanese DB score but plenty for the Japanese DBZ score. The problem was it didn't seem to grow up along with the show.

If you took the last episodes of Dragon Ball and and the first of Dragon Ball Z and had a total newcomer to the series watch them back to back, with the logo removed, they'd think they were watching the same series, both visually, musically, and cast-wise (vocally?). As the story progressed Kikuchi dropped the more upbeat and light-hearted themes, espicially as you entered the Namek arc. Pieces from Return My Gohan, The World's Strongest Guy, and Super Deciding Battle for the Entire Planet Earth were rampant throughout the Namek arc. Certainly not all children's fare, espicially when The Sleeping Princess in the Devil's Castle saw its main choir piece brought into the fold once or twice through the first hundred or so episodes.

Of course, this is a fan of the original music fresh out of high school debating with somebody who likely has some form of post-high school cred in the field of music, but what the hell. Kikuchi's music deserves backing.

[LilKokuLink]

I have some stuff to get off my mind!
I think mystic trunks is being unreasonable here, not to mention some other people backing up the Japanese soundtrack.

This is such an unnecessary thread, we know the majority of Daizenshuu EX prefer the original Japanese soundtrack and a good portion absolutely despise Faulconer's music. This thread is a gold mine for arguments. As for me, I'm part of the small group that loves the dub and being referred to as the "dubbies" seems quite out of order - not just in this thread but around the forums. It's like we're not accepted in this community. But meh, it's a personal thing... it's not you it's me </3.

I'm watching the Z series with the Japanese audio for the first time. It's like they only use 3 tracks repeatedly.

How much of it have you actually watched? :/ Listen to the BGM tracks by itself and then tell us that there's no variation, there may not be as many tracks but they are certainly longer than some of Faulconer's twenty second tracks...

Want to know something funny? Let's take the whole of the Cell Games Saga. In the dub, three songs:

- Hercule Gives Speech
- Cell Transforms.
- Perfect Cell Theme.

Three songs that are constantly repeated in the Cell Games Saga, and the last two which were not very shy in the two saga's before...
But am I being unreasonable? After all, I am only looking at one arc of the entire series aren't I? An opinion based on the entire soundtrack should be based on the entire soundtrack, your "Wow, the Japanese soundtrack is horrible!" is not. I'm not saying I respect your opinion because I truly do, just give it some thought first.

I'm a dub fan, I like parts of the Japanese soundtrack and listen to them often. I prefer the Faulconer stuff though.
Here's some numbers for you: Out of the 300 odd released DragonBall Z tracks released by Bruce Faulconer, I like and listen to 70 of them. Again I say, have you watched the whole series with Japanese Audio or listened to the entire soundtrack?

*sigh*

[mystic trunks]

I have NOT Watched the whole Z series with the Japanese audio,(Only about 40 episodes) but I DO have the whole Japanese BGM collection and actually DO like some of them.
@ Tenken: I Do realize most people on this board are Fans of ONLY the Japanese version of the show. I am reminded of that quite frequently, with the people constantly telling me I am not a fan of the show and whatnot.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

I have NOT Watched the whole Z series with the Japanese audio,(Only about 40 episodes) but I DO have the whole Japanese BGM collection and actually DO like some of them.
@ Tenken: I Do realize most people on this board are Fans of ONLY the Japanese version of the show. I am reminded of that quite frequently, with the people constantly telling me I am not a fan of the show and whatnot.

Yeah I know, if you ever say that an American version of a Japanese product is better, prepare to be told you aren't a true fan.

For the record, it's not as bad on the Daizex forums then it is on other Dragon Ball forums.

"HEAD-CHA-LA" itself as a song played on American TV in 1996? I'm pretty with ya'. The actual BGM itself? Never would have been a problem. Never. Not in a million years. There wouldn't be a single complaint about it from general dub fandom if it was kept. You rarely see them complaining about its usage in the original DB, and when they do, it's always half-assed arguments about how the tone of the show was different blah blah blah, using terrible examples with nothing other than general dub splooging to try and back it up. It's like they don't even want to talk about it, because they know there's no conversation to be had.

It would've been a problem for American kids at that time because they would've found Kikuchi's score dated and boring. It would've also went against the "Hardcore Action Rock Music" message FUNimation was trying to send with Dragon Ball Z. Nobody complained about Kikuchi's score in Dragon Ball because FUNimation wasn't sending this message.

[Blue]

For the record, it's not as bad on the Daizex forums then it is on other Dragon Ball forums.

Really? It seems like a ton of the other DB forums have a dub fan majority.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

For the record, it's not as bad on the Daizex forums then it is on other Dragon Ball forums.

Really? It seems like a ton of the other DB forums have a dub fan majority.

Yeah your right, but on other Dragon Ball forums there are intolerant elitists who say everything Japanese is better.

This happens here, just to a lesser degree and you don't get flamed.

[mystic trunks]

I have never seen as rude a DBZ community as there is here. But anyway, never have I said The American version of DBZ is better. I just like it more. And really, nobody can say the Japanese version is better, being as it is obviously and totally subjective.

[cRookie_Monster]

DB is a totally different show. The original score was a lot more fitting than it was for DBZ. Even for me I have zero complaints about the Japanese DB score but plenty for the Japanese DBZ score. The problem was it didn't seem to grow up along with the show.

If you took the last episodes of Dragon Ball and and the first of Dragon Ball Z and had a total newcomer to the series watch them back to back, with the logo removed, they'd think they were watching the same series, both visually, musically, and cast-wise (vocally?). As the story progressed Kikuchi dropped the more upbeat and light-hearted themes, espicially as you entered the Namek arc. Pieces from Return My Gohan, The World's Strongest Guy, and Super Deciding Battle for the Entire Planet Earth were rampant throughout the Namek arc. Certainly not all children's fare, espicially when The Sleeping Princess in the Devil's Castle saw its main choir piece brought into the fold once or twice through the first hundred or so episodes.

Of course, this is a fan of the original music fresh out of high school debating with somebody who likely has some form of post-high school cred in the field of music, but what the hell. Kikuchi's music deserves backing.

I'm not thinking the soundtrack didn't change, but they'd still use ratchets and even goofy slide whistles (as someone else pointed out recently) in serious scenes. I dunno, to me so many elements of the Japanese score sound comedic. But....same in the Faulconer Productions to some degree score (clarinet or marimba overuse for instance). Always keep in mind I don't really think either version is perfect, or terrible either.

I have never seen as rude a DBZ community as there is here. But anyway, never have I said The American version of DBZ is better. I just like it more. And really, nobody can say the Japanese version is better, being as it is obviously and totally subjective.

Rudest community I've ever seen was on Garageband.com. Got so out of hand the forum got closed down! This forum is like a bunch of super over polite people compared to that place. What's even weirder is the average age here is probably half of what it was on Garageband.com. ^^

[penguintruth]

Well, I can be a bigger asshole if you'd like.

Though I'm already straining just being this much of one.

I also absolutely believe that Funimation could have aired DBZ with its original score from day one and it probably would have been just as successful. But I guess that's speculation.

Also:

Given actual resources, time, and freedom the man could wipe the floor with Kukichi easily.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Given actual resources, time, and freedom the man could wipe the floor with Kukichi easily.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Scott has actually worked with Bruce so I think he would know. FUNimation basically governed how Bruce composed the music. If FUNimation left him alone to compose the music, I think the score would've turned out immensely better.

[LilKokuLink]

I have NOT Watched the whole Z series with the Japanese audio,(Only about 40 episodes) but I DO have the whole Japanese BGM collection and actually DO like some of them.

Don't worry man I wouldn't have a go at you if you had said you didn't like any of them, just as long as you gave it a chance. It' s like saying you hate brussel sprouts but you've never actually tried them, you know?

Anyway, I think the Daizenshuu EX forums is as good as it's going to get. The strict rules enforce us to not have constant threads of 'this vs that' which sometimes gets so childish on other forums. There are miles less unnecessary posts too, just things like: "Here, have a picture" on a topic completely unrelated - it keeps these forums clean.
The majority of other forums are mostly filled with fans of the dub, so what am I doing here instead of there? Most of them on other forums are 12 year old children which have no emphasis on the show whatsoever, I'm not saying all of them - but a good portion of them which makes it hard to communicate.

I am reminded of that quite frequently, with the people constantly telling me I am not a fan of the show and whatnot.

Yeah I know, if you ever say that an American version of a Japanese product is better, prepare to be told you aren't a true fan.

People who say these type of things are just ridiculous (Not you guys, just whoever says those things that you stated). I just say that people who think like that are selfish in a sense that they don't want to accept other people's enjoyment of the show. If someone came up and told me I'm not a true fan then I don't even have to reply back - I've already beaten them by the fact that I like the show how I like it and I respect how they like it, if they don't see that then more fool them.

Relating back to the original and the dub scores...
It's this simple, if you don't like one of them - don't listen to it. Don't complain because overall your opinion is not going to change anything.

o.0

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

I have NOT Watched the whole Z series with the Japanese audio,(Only about 40 episodes) but I DO have the whole Japanese BGM collection and actually DO like some of them.

Don't worry man I wouldn't have a go at you if you had said you didn't like any of them, just as long as you gave it a chance. It' s like saying you hate brussel sprouts but you've never actually tried them, you know?

Exactly. He tried something different, didn't like it and there's nothing wrong with that. Some dub fans don't go the extra mile and switch over to the japanese music on their season sets.

I have a big problem though, about how he was treated for expressing his own opinion.

[Puto]

I have never seen as rude a DBZ community as there is here.

Were you expecting anything BUT arguing when you create a thread titled "Wow, the [insert anything here] is horrible!"?