Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

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Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

Post by UnbiasedDBZfan » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:16 pm

I don't remember if it was used or not, but it couldn't have been could it? Did Saban and Levy let Funimation continue using that piece?
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Re: Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:23 pm

Yes, it was used throughout season three (and by "season three", I mean the actual "season three" when broken up by broadcast seasons). It was also used in the North American release of the first DragonBall Z / Budokai game (replacing "Head-Cha-La", but still using the same animation). It was also tossed into a domestic Taiko Drum Master game on PS2 at some point. It wasn't until "season four" that a new replacement theme by Faulconer Productions was used.

Levy didn't need to "let" FUNimation use that theme -- it was composed for them for the purposes of DBZ. We don't know the intricacies of the contract of anything, but if it was a pretty standard work-for-hire type contract, anything that was produced for them became their own property (though I'll admit to not really knowing anything about that world, so Scott Morgan might have to jump in to clarify if he can speak to it at all).
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Re: Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

Post by UnbiasedDBZfan » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:35 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Yes, it was used throughout season three (and by "season three", I mean the actual "season three" when broken up by broadcast seasons). It was also used in the North American release of the first DragonBall Z / Budokai game (replacing "Head-Cha-La", but still using the same animation). It was also tossed into a domestic Taiko Drum Master game on PS2 at some point. It wasn't until "season four" that a new replacement theme by Faulconer Productions was used.

Levy didn't need to "let" FUNimation use that theme -- it was composed for them for the purposes of DBZ. We don't know the intricacies of the contract of anything, but if it was a pretty standard work-for-hire type contract, anything that was produced for them became their own property (though I'll admit to not really knowing anything about that world, so Scott Morgan might have to jump in to clarify if he can speak to it at all).
Oh so by episode 68(54) it still was being used. I see. You see my memory's not the sharpest, so I had to clarify from someone if it was true. But according to my research anything dubbed by Ocean Studios is Canadian content and in Rock the Dragon if you're not deaf you hear Goku saying 'Get out of my way! In Ian James Corlett's voice.' So that BLT dub produced by Funimation would be Canadian content. The first DBZ dub in North America the Funimation dub/Saban dub produced by Ocean Studios is Canadian content for obvious reasons.
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Re: Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:47 pm

I think you're confusing the idea of "Can-Con" with... well, you're just wrapping it up unnecessarily with other stuff.

Just to clarify things:

- The voice cast used in FUNimation's 1995 dub of the DragonBall TV series (episodes 1-13) and the first movie were recorded with BLT.
- The voice cast used in FUNimation's 1996-1998 dub of the DragonBall Z TV series (edited dub episodes 1-53) and first three movies were recorded with Ocean Studios.

The thing is, it was basically the same cast -- just different recording location, in essence. And it wasn't "Canadian" content... it was FUNimation who was responsible for the whole thing. FUNimation resides in Texas. Barry Watson, from FUNimation, flew up to Canada to be involved with voice recordings and castings and such. FUNimation ran the show. It was an American production. Always has been.

We sometimes get shit for harping on this, but it's worth repeating -- what people occasionally call "the Ocean dub" wasn't really "the Ocean dub", because it was FUNimation who was in charge of it and produced the entire thing. They just outsourced their voice talent to Ocean. It was only later on with the "alternate" English dub that the phrase "Ocean dub" makes slightly more sense, but even then the voice cast was still just being outsourced; it's not like Ocean Studios is a production company, or anything.

I don't really understand your "if you're not deaf" comment, because in "Rock the Dragon" you hear Corlett (as Goku, in the scene from DBZ movie 3) yell out "Kamehame...!" (without the "ha!"). You might be confusing it with your memory of what he says during that scene in the TV edit dub of the movie, because he does say something along those lines there.

And to wrap things back around, "Rock the Dragon" was used for FUNimation's first two seasons of the DBZ dub (their edited episodes 1-53), and then onward into "season three" (which would be original-dub-numbering-episodes 54 through... whatever the end of the Freeza fight was; I'm not sure if the Garlic Jr. tapes still had "Rock the Dragon" on them, or if the "Rising Sun" block played the intro).
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Re: Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

Post by UnbiasedDBZfan » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:59 pm

VegettoEX wrote:I think you're confusing the idea of "Can-Con" with... well, you're just wrapping it up unnecessarily with other stuff.

Just to clarify things:

- The voice cast used in FUNimation's 1995 dub of the DragonBall TV series (episodes 1-13) and the first movie were recorded with BLT.
- The voice cast used in FUNimation's 1996-1998 dub of the DragonBall Z TV series (edited dub episodes 1-53) and first three movies were recorded with Ocean Studios.

The thing is, it was basically the same cast -- just different recording location, in essence. And it wasn't "Canadian" content... it was FUNimation who was responsible for the whole thing. FUNimation resides in Texas. Barry Watson, from FUNimation, flew up to Canada to be involved with voice recordings and castings and such. FUNimation ran the show. It was an American production. Always has been.

We sometimes get shit for harping on this, but it's worth repeating -- what people occasionally call "the Ocean dub" wasn't really "the Ocean dub", because it was FUNimation who was in charge of it and produced the entire thing. They just outsourced their voice talent to Ocean. It was only later on with the "alternate" English dub that the phrase "Ocean dub" makes slightly more sense, but even then the voice cast was still just being outsourced; it's not like Ocean Studios is a production company, or anything.

I don't really understand your "if you're not deaf" comment, because in "Rock the Dragon" you hear Corlett (as Goku, in the scene from DBZ movie 3) yell out "Kamehame...!" (without the "ha!"). You might be confusing it with your memory of what he says during that scene in the TV edit dub of the movie, because he does say something along those lines there.

And to wrap things back around, "Rock the Dragon" was used for FUNimation's first two seasons of the DBZ dub (their edited episodes 1-53), and then onward into "season three" (which would be original-dub-numbering-episodes 54 through... whatever the end of the Freeza fight was; I'm not sure if the Garlic Jr. tapes still had "Rock the Dragon" on them, or if the "Rising Sun" block played the intro).
I knew about how DBZ was first dubbed in said continent, but I never knew that it was always US content thanks for clearing my head. And of course people are going to call the first 'American' dub the 'Ocean dub.' The first REAL ACTUAL Funimation dubbed dub was one of the Dragon Ball moive in 97'. I forget the film's name. It was the first dub with Chris Sabat. In any case thanks for somewhat clearing my head.
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Re: Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

Post by AgitoZ » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:10 pm

UnbiasedDBZfan wrote:I knew about how DBZ was first dubbed in said continent, but I never knew that it was always US content thanks for clearing my head.
Canada's a continent now? :shock:
UnbiasedDBZfan wrote:And of course people are going to call the first 'American' dub the 'Ocean dub.' The first REAL ACTUAL Funimation dubbed dub was one of the Dragon Ball moive in 97'.
How are the works recorded at Ocean any less real than those later on? It was still all FUNi.

If you mean the 2nd DB movie (I believe that's what you're referring to) is the first to have the in-house cast then that's a bit more truthful (I don't recall if that was indeed the first instance, but it sounds right).

Heh, dubbed dub.
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Re: Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

Post by UnbiasedDBZfan » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:37 pm

AgitoZ wrote:
UnbiasedDBZfan wrote:I knew about how DBZ was first dubbed in said continent, but I never knew that it was always US content thanks for clearing my head.
Canada's a continent now? :shock:
UnbiasedDBZfan wrote:And of course people are going to call the first 'American' dub the 'Ocean dub.' The first REAL ACTUAL Funimation dubbed dub was one of the Dragon Ball moive in 97'.
How are the works recorded at Ocean any less real than those later on? It was still all FUNi.

If you mean the 2nd DB movie (I believe that's what you're referring to) is the first to have the in-house cast then that's a bit more truthful (I don't recall if that was indeed the first instance, but it sounds right).

Heh, dubbed dub.
I knew this since a while a go you know. But at least we know that Rock the Dragon was in season 3 as well. Note It wasn't all Funi. Saban had it's fair share of stuff. Where do you think the arm growing shit came from?
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Re: Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

Post by jpdbzrulz4sure » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:50 pm

VegettoEX wrote:I'm not sure if the Garlic Jr. tapes still had "Rock the Dragon" on them...

Nope. The Garlic Jr. saga was when they started using Faulconer Productions' theme.
VegettoEX wrote:...or if the "Rising Sun" block played the intro.
No. The "Rising Sun" block happened during the time Toonami was still skipping the opening sequences of shows.
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Re: Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

Post by xzero » Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:10 pm

jpdbzrulz4sure wrote:No. The "Rising Sun" block happened during the time Toonami was still skipping the opening sequences of shows.
Did Toonami ever play the opening sequence during DBZ's original run? The first time I heard the full theme was when I picked up a Buu-era DVD (Babidi: Rivals, I believe) and discovered that there was a full version of the DBZ Theme.

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Re: Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

Post by jpdbzrulz4sure » Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:16 pm

xzero wrote:Did Toonami ever play the opening sequence during DBZ's original run?
No, not during the original run. Only in reruns after Toonami moved to Saturday evenings.
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Re: Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

Post by Pokewhiz7 » Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:59 pm

I'm pretty positive that it's on all of the Ginyu and Freeza singles.

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Re: Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

Post by TripleRach » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:43 pm

jpdbzrulz4sure wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:I'm not sure if the Garlic Jr. tapes still had "Rock the Dragon" on them...

Nope. The Garlic Jr. saga was when they started using Faulconer Productions' theme.
And that's probably why the footage (with Namekkians playing golf and stuff) in the Faulconer theme ending credits was all from the end of the Freeza arc/early Garlic Jr stuff. They used that same ending sequence from Garlic Jr through Cell, as I recall, but I'm not sure if/when it changed after that.

I only watched the dub on Toonami, which had its own custom intros, but yeah it definitely kept a shorter "Rock the Dragon" instrumental in the ending credits during the third TV season.
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Re: Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

Post by Gonstead » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:47 pm

From the Garlic Jr Saga till the end of Other World Tournament Saga, it used those opening and endings which had those montage of clips. The new intro and endings which borrow from the original Japanese intros were instroduced in the Majin Buu Saga episodes right after the Other World Tournament.

Everything before that was Rock The Dragon.
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Re: Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:44 pm

UnbiasedDBZfan wrote:I knew about how DBZ was first dubbed in said continent, but I never knew that it was always US content thanks for clearing my head. And of course people are going to call the first 'American' dub the 'Ocean dub.' The first REAL ACTUAL Funimation dubbed dub was one of the Dragon Ball moive in 97'. I forget the film's name. It was the first dub with Chris Sabat. In any case thanks for somewhat clearing my head.
They dubbed movie 2 in 1999, just before season 3 began. but like AgitoZ said, everything prior to this was just as "REAL ACTUAL FUNimation dubbed dub" as everything that came after it. We only ever object to the term "Oean dub" when it causes confusion as to whether or not it is FUNimation's, as seems to be the issue here.
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Re: Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

Post by UnbiasedDBZfan » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:21 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:
UnbiasedDBZfan wrote:I knew about how DBZ was first dubbed in said continent, but I never knew that it was always US content thanks for clearing my head. And of course people are going to call the first 'American' dub the 'Ocean dub.' The first REAL ACTUAL Funimation dubbed dub was one of the Dragon Ball moive in 97'. I forget the film's name. It was the first dub with Chris Sabat. In any case thanks for somewhat clearing my head.
They dubbed movie 2 in 1999, just before season 3 began. but like AgitoZ said, everything prior to this was just as "REAL ACTUAL FUNimation dubbed dub" as everything that came after it. We only ever object to the term "Ocean dub" when it causes confusion as to whether or not it is FUNimation's, as seems to be the issue here.
It always was Funimation's as Vegetto EX said, but since it was dubbed by Canadians and it was dubbed in Ocean Studios, then the term Ocean dub is semi accurate. Just like people call the Gundam Wing Dub the Ocean/Bandai dub people call the 1996-1998 version the Ocean/Funi/Saban dub, despite Funimation producing the show. Another thing to note is that Shuki Levy usually only does the music for shows that Saban produce and he did the music for X-Men didn't he? He also did the music for Power Rangers and that is an all Saban program, so the Funi/Ocean/Saban dub music is only there due to Saban. If Saban never helped Funi with DBZ then Funimation would have to do their own music.
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Re: Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

Post by AgitoZ » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:18 pm

UnbiasedDBZfan wrote:It always was Funimation's as Vegetto EX said, but since it was dubbed by Canadians and it was dubbed in Ocean Studios, then the term Ocean dub is semi accurate. Just like people call the Gundam Wing Dub the Ocean/Bandai dub people call the 1996-1998 version the Ocean/Funi/Saban dub, despite Funimation producing the show. Another thing to note is that Shuki Levy usually only does the music for shows that Saban produce and he did the music for X-Men didn't he? He also did the music for Power Rangers and that is an all Saban program, so the Funi/Ocean/Saban dub music is only there due to Saban. If Saban never helped Funi with DBZ then Funimation would have to do their own music.
You're still not explaining why that makes the pre-in-house dub any less real.
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Re: Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

Post by UnbiasedDBZfan » Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:21 pm

AgitoZ wrote:
UnbiasedDBZfan wrote:It always was Funimation's as Vegetto EX said, but since it was dubbed by Canadians and it was dubbed in Ocean Studios, then the term Ocean dub is semi accurate. Just like people call the Gundam Wing Dub the Ocean/Bandai dub people call the 1996-1998 version the Ocean/Funi/Saban dub, despite Funimation producing the show. Another thing to note is that Shuki Levy usually only does the music for shows that Saban produce and he did the music for X-Men didn't he? He also did the music for Power Rangers and that is an all Saban program, so the Funi/Ocean/Saban dub music is only there due to Saban. If Saban never helped Funi with DBZ then Funimation would have to do their own music.
You're still not explaining why that makes the pre-in-house dub any less real.
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Re: Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

Post by Gonstead » Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:24 pm

UnbiasedDBZfan wrote:
AgitoZ wrote:
UnbiasedDBZfan wrote:It always was Funimation's as Vegetto EX said, but since it was dubbed by Canadians and it was dubbed in Ocean Studios, then the term Ocean dub is semi accurate. Just like people call the Gundam Wing Dub the Ocean/Bandai dub people call the 1996-1998 version the Ocean/Funi/Saban dub, despite Funimation producing the show. Another thing to note is that Shuki Levy usually only does the music for shows that Saban produce and he did the music for X-Men didn't he? He also did the music for Power Rangers and that is an all Saban program, so the Funi/Ocean/Saban dub music is only there due to Saban. If Saban never helped Funi with DBZ then Funimation would have to do their own music.
You're still not explaining why that makes the pre-in-house dub any less real.
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Re: Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

Post by UnbiasedDBZfan » Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:42 pm

The real reason that the pre in house dub is 'less real' is a dub is essentially taking out an original dialogue and putting it in the language the dubbers speak. Since Funi was incapable of doing that prior to Sleeping Princess in Devil's castle. In fact in the ending credits for the 1996 dub clearly reads PRODUCED IN ASSOCIATION WITH THE OCEAN GROUP, VANCOUVER and if that isn't any clearer it lists the Ocean voice cast. You can argue it says in the same clear white letters produced by Funimation but at the very end of the program it had Saban's thing around it. Also in the TRUE Funimation dub it lists the Funi in house talent and that it had Bruce Faulconer music and also says it was recorded in Forth Worth. Also read this. And yeah your right Gonstead a poor Japanese is/was not the answer I suppose. Glad to be of service.
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Re: Is it true Rock the Dragon was still used in 1999?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:47 pm

But hiring other companies does not make it any less theirs. Look at it this way. In one case, FUNimation hired a group of actors to play the characters they had licensed. In the other case, FUNimation hired a group of actors to play the characters they had licensed. The only difference is that one group was in Canada, and the other was in their home town. Saban's involvement does not make it any less FUNimation's either. Saban was their syndicator, responsible for getting the show on the air back then. If you think that Saban's involvement makes it less FUNimation's show, then their later dub has the same problem because Cartoon Network filled a similar role in placing it on their channel.

And you keep talking about Canadian content when it's already been explained that this does not fit the bill. The work was outsourced to Canada, but it was still an American production to be shown in America to an American audience. Just like how most American cartoons are actually animated in places like Korea without making them Korean shows.
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