The Shuki Levy score

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Forte224
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Re: The Shuki Levy score

Post by Forte224 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:37 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Forte224 wrote:An uncut experience for season 3? As in, produced like those 3 movies with accurate dialogue and Kikuchi score? That would have been amazing, I've never heard this before.
Summer 1997, Gen Fukunaga himself:
That's why here at Funimation we are trying to produce a US version of DBZ completely unedited with the original music, only in English.

...

Yes our goal is to put this directly on home video.
We didn't get this until 2005 with the orange bricks, long after the damage was done.
That is so awesome and sad all at the same time. What I wouldn't give to have this be a reality. Thanks for sharing.

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Re: The Shuki Levy score

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:38 pm

Forte224 wrote: Hate to break up the party, but I've never understood how the Faulconer score is so hated for being replacement music, yet Ocean's replacement music gets a pass. It's a pretty big trend I've seen. I don't like anything about the OG Funi dub or the Ocean dub (except McNeil as Piccolo), but it's always baffled me how the Ocean dub gets a pass for doing the same things the OG Funi dub did. And it did them first!
The Saban score gets a pass because its not awful like the Faulconer score. Not saying shows SHOULD replace BGM and that practice seems to have mostly died anyways but I'd rather have something that's just there than ear bleeding bad like the Faulconer score.

Like I don't love drinking flat soda but I'll drink flat soda over a cup of urine

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Re: The Shuki Levy score

Post by IHaveNoUserName » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:09 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Forte224 wrote: Hate to break up the party, but I've never understood how the Faulconer score is so hated for being replacement music, yet Ocean's replacement music gets a pass. It's a pretty big trend I've seen. I don't like anything about the OG Funi dub or the Ocean dub (except McNeil as Piccolo), but it's always baffled me how the Ocean dub gets a pass for doing the same things the OG Funi dub did. And it did them first!
The Saban score gets a pass because its not awful like the Faulconer score. Not saying shows SHOULD replace BGM and that practice seems to have mostly died anyways but I'd rather have something that's just there than ear bleeding bad like the Faulconer score.

Like I don't love drinking flat soda but I'll drink flat soda over a cup of urine
The Faulconer score isn't that bad honestly
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Re: The Shuki Levy score

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:10 pm

IHaveNoUserName wrote:
MasenkoHA wrote:
Forte224 wrote: Hate to break up the party, but I've never understood how the Faulconer score is so hated for being replacement music, yet Ocean's replacement music gets a pass. It's a pretty big trend I've seen. I don't like anything about the OG Funi dub or the Ocean dub (except McNeil as Piccolo), but it's always baffled me how the Ocean dub gets a pass for doing the same things the OG Funi dub did. And it did them first!
The Saban score gets a pass because its not awful like the Faulconer score. Not saying shows SHOULD replace BGM and that practice seems to have mostly died anyways but I'd rather have something that's just there than ear bleeding bad like the Faulconer score.

Like I don't love drinking flat soda but I'll drink flat soda over a cup of urine
The Faulconer score isn't that bad honestly
Super Buu's theme is lit...

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Re: The Shuki Levy score

Post by Forte224 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:11 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Forte224 wrote: Hate to break up the party, but I've never understood how the Faulconer score is so hated for being replacement music, yet Ocean's replacement music gets a pass. It's a pretty big trend I've seen. I don't like anything about the OG Funi dub or the Ocean dub (except McNeil as Piccolo), but it's always baffled me how the Ocean dub gets a pass for doing the same things the OG Funi dub did. And it did them first!
The Saban score gets a pass because its not awful like the Faulconer score. Not saying shows SHOULD replace BGM and that practice seems to have mostly died anyways but I'd rather have something that's just there than ear bleeding bad like the Faulconer score.

Like I don't love drinking flat soda but I'll drink flat soda over a cup of urine
Well, I can appreciate that. Makes sense.

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Re: The Shuki Levy score

Post by Asura » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:32 pm

IHaveNoUserName wrote:
MasenkoHA wrote:
Forte224 wrote: Hate to break up the party, but I've never understood how the Faulconer score is so hated for being replacement music, yet Ocean's replacement music gets a pass. It's a pretty big trend I've seen. I don't like anything about the OG Funi dub or the Ocean dub (except McNeil as Piccolo), but it's always baffled me how the Ocean dub gets a pass for doing the same things the OG Funi dub did. And it did them first!
The Saban score gets a pass because its not awful like the Faulconer score. Not saying shows SHOULD replace BGM and that practice seems to have mostly died anyways but I'd rather have something that's just there than ear bleeding bad like the Faulconer score.

Like I don't love drinking flat soda but I'll drink flat soda over a cup of urine
The Faulconer score isn't that bad honestly
I think people would be a lot more receptive to the Faulconer score if it wasn't in literally every single scene ever. Whoever at Funi decided that there should be background music playing AT ALL TIMES is stupid. I think most of the Faulconer scores are quite meh, definitely nothing that you could listen to on its own aside from a few amazing tracks like Gohans, SSJ3 Goku, Super Buu, Cell, etc.
A common complaint about the Faulconer score I hear though is that everything sounds the same and all the synth sounds the same. Well no offense to Kikuchi but most of his songs just blend right into another with how similar they sound as well. I wish we could have had Yamamoto for the entirety of Kai :( .

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Re: The Shuki Levy score

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:35 pm

Even when I liked the Z dub I never thought much of the music. I'm not gonna say its all bad but most of it runs together. I didn't even realize the score had individual themes for characters. Nor did I realize it had more than like 10 pieces of music

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Re: The Shuki Levy score

Post by Attitudefan » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:44 pm

Forte224 wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:
Forte224 wrote:An uncut experience for season 3? As in, produced like those 3 movies with accurate dialogue and Kikuchi score? That would have been amazing, I've never heard this before.
Summer 1997, Gen Fukunaga himself:
That's why here at Funimation we are trying to produce a US version of DBZ completely unedited with the original music, only in English.

...

Yes our goal is to put this directly on home video.
We didn't get this until 2005 with the orange bricks, long after the damage was done.
That is so awesome and sad all at the same time. What I wouldn't give to have this be a reality. Thanks for sharing.
Not only that, it most likely would have been with the cast used for DBZ Movie 1, 2, and 3!! This kills me it never happened... kills me!

Still, does anyone know what Wasserman used for the shrieking sound? Someone with musical background? I hope it isn't some cool technique that will die with the composers and people who know how to make/compose music.
Kakacarrottop wrote: And I agree with your point on epic sounding stuff. The sound is all too common since all the big movies like Star Wars had orchestral soundtracks rather than electronic ones, so that's what people are going to use as a point of reference when they start composing.
Yup. Without musical visionaries that made soundtracks like for Terminator 1 and visionaries of musical composition like Pink Floyd, music would be a much duller place. I look at Wasserman, and the Faulconer team with high regard for what they were able to make on limited instruments. To me, that is worth the praise. It worked with the direction of the dubs, and the music is has a very memorable sound to it. To me, that is better than someone who can have an orchestra at their fingertips and produce mediocre pieces. An orchestra is there to enhance an experience (not always, depends on what kind of sound a composer wants) and therefore, talent shines through even with a minimalistic approach.

It amazes me that people don't understand direction, and talent of compostion, and rather hear what they suppose is supposed to be good (in this case, hearing orchestral instruments instantly means classic or epic) and bash music producers and composers for going a different route, claiming it is a cheap rip-off. Not so. Terminator 1 had a low budget but was effective in presentation. In a way, Wasserman's and Faulconer's score is in the same vain as Terminator 1's music and/or Carpenter films. They WORK for the direction and fit as an overall presentation. The music alone is good, together with the package it fits and is good. Same with the way the original Japanese dub works. The package of the overall production creates a fantastic experience.

To claim that these composers were less than that, I absolutely disagree.
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Re: The Shuki Levy score

Post by Kakacarrottop » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:55 am

Forte224 wrote:
SuperCyan2 wrote:
MrTennek wrote:The Ocean dub's replacement music was nothing but constant, earsplitting noise. Awful. There were no melodies or leitmotifs or anything, just cacophony. Faulconer was leagues better than Levy / Wasserman / whoever it was that composed it.
That's interesting because aside a few good tunes of FUNimation's Nathan Johnson & Faulconer Productions scores, they just sound like a bunch of annoying noises so we have something in common about replacement soundtracks. jaja

I don't really see how Faulconer was better but who really cares.
Hate to break up the party, but I've never understood how the Faulconer score is so hated for being replacement music, yet Ocean's replacement music gets a pass. It's a pretty big trend I've seen
But Faulconer's soundtrack gets lauded as a masterpiece on mainstream websites and Youtube, while the Saban music isn't very well known outside of here and hardcore Ocean fans on Youtube. Most people, despite hearing it on Toonami growing up, aren't even aware of it's existence, and if they are they lump it in with the shoddy Megaman music from the Android / Buu era Ocean dub. I'm certain this is not going to change anytime soon, since the number of fans born in the early 2000s who grew up with the Orange Bricks keeps getting larger.
"I will literally dress as Goku and walk around jumping up and down, pretending to fly, in public if this ever gets an official release"

- ShadowDude112 on Ocean's Kai dub

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Re: The Shuki Levy score

Post by Forte224 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:42 am

Kakacarrottop wrote:
Forte224 wrote:
SuperCyan2 wrote: That's interesting because aside a few good tunes of FUNimation's Nathan Johnson & Faulconer Productions scores, they just sound like a bunch of annoying noises so we have something in common about replacement soundtracks. jaja

I don't really see how Faulconer was better but who really cares.
Hate to break up the party, but I've never understood how the Faulconer score is so hated for being replacement music, yet Ocean's replacement music gets a pass. It's a pretty big trend I've seen
But Faulconer's soundtrack gets lauded as a masterpiece on mainstream websites and Youtube, while the Saban music isn't very well known outside of here and hardcore Ocean fans on Youtube. Most people, despite hearing it on Toonami growing up, aren't even aware of it's existence, and if they are they lump it in with the shoddy Megaman music from the Android / Buu era Ocean dub. I'm certain this is not going to change anytime soon, since the number of fans born in the early 2000s who grew up with the Orange Bricks keeps getting larger.
I guess I was more referring to this site in general, people seem to give it a pass when it does the same things the Faulconer music does, replace the original score. And though it doesn't necessarily sound bad, it isn't exactly a Kikuchi replacement either and doesn't stay true to the original show.

But yeah, outside of this site in the mainstream is a completely different world when it comes to Dragon Ball. A world that lauds Faulconer as the best anime score of all time. A world I don't want to be a part of...

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Re: The Shuki Levy score

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:42 pm

Kakacarrottop wrote:
Forte224 wrote:
SuperCyan2 wrote: That's interesting because aside a few good tunes of FUNimation's Nathan Johnson & Faulconer Productions scores, they just sound like a bunch of annoying noises so we have something in common about replacement soundtracks. jaja

I don't really see how Faulconer was better but who really cares.
Hate to break up the party, but I've never understood how the Faulconer score is so hated for being replacement music, yet Ocean's replacement music gets a pass. It's a pretty big trend I've seen
But Faulconer's soundtrack gets lauded as a masterpiece on mainstream websites and Youtube, while the Saban music isn't very well known outside of here and hardcore Ocean fans on Youtube. Most people, despite hearing it on Toonami growing up, aren't even aware of it's existence, and if they are they lump it in with the shoddy Megaman music from the Android / Buu era Ocean dub. I'm certain this is not going to change anytime soon, since the number of fans born in the early 2000s who grew up with the Orange Bricks keeps getting larger.

I noticed a lot of younger DBZ dub fans aren't even aware the Saban dub existed. Like just the other week I a reddit asking about the OG English Gohan.....Stephanie Nadolny. Or when comparing to Kai and saying they miss the original voices they mean Funi Z and not the Ocean/Saban/Funi voices....


Doesn't help that people act like Funimation didn't produce the Saban dub.

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Re: The Shuki Levy score

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:49 pm

Forte224 wrote:
I guess I was more referring to this site in general, people seem to give it a pass
Do they give it a pass or do they just not acknowledge it because its barely relevant in sub vs dub arguments? Even the Nathan Johnson score which is on the Orange Bricks for the first two seasons never really gets talked about (which FYI is probably my favorite "dub score" ) because uh dubbies I guess are more infatuated with the Faulconer score.

when it does the same things the Faulconer music does, replace the original score. And though it doesn't necessarily sound bad, it isn't exactly a Kikuchi replacement either and doesn't stay true to the original show.
I think it fits what they turn DBZ into. Keeping the Japanese music but still having talks about next dimension and skipping the more eastern inspired Dragon Ball would have made it weird. That's why I think a lot of people don't like Kikuchi besides blind nostalgia. It works better if you watched Dragon Ball and then Z and not skipped straight to Z.
But yeah, outside of this site in the mainstream is a completely different world when it comes to Dragon Ball. A world that lauds Faulconer as the best anime score of all time. A world I don't want to be a part of...
I think its funny DBZ is the only one where an overwhelming majority seem to be prefer the dub replacement score. Sailor Moon's fandom is mixed but for the most part the Japanese score is universally preferred over DiC. More so nowadays than back in 2000 Even people who like the dub Digimon never seem to claim that the recycled Masked Rider music was better. Haven't followed Yu-Gi-Oh fandom in years but I don't remember people having a strong opinion either way for the Japanese music or the 4Kids music (everyone was too busy complaining about the ridiculous censorship)

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Re: The Shuki Levy score

Post by Forte224 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:03 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Forte224 wrote:
I guess I was more referring to this site in general, people seem to give it a pass
Do they give it a pass or do they just not acknowledge it because its barely relevant in sub vs dub arguments? Even the Nathan Johnson score which is on the Orange Bricks for the first two seasons never really gets talked about (which FYI is probably my favorite "dub score" ) because uh dubbies I guess are more infatuated with the Faulconer score.
More just saying things like "Ian Corlett is way better than Schemmel" despite acting and being written like the Superman Goku that Schmmel was written out to be. Even telling Piccolo that taking over the world was "wrong" as if he were some righteous super hero or something. So I guess I'm more referring to the dub than the score.

when it does the same things the Faulconer music does, replace the original score. And though it doesn't necessarily sound bad, it isn't exactly a Kikuchi replacement either and doesn't stay true to the original show.
I think it fits what they turn DBZ into. Keeping the Japanese music but still having talks about next dimension and skipping the more eastern inspired Dragon Ball would have made it weird. That's why I think a lot of people don't like Kikuchi besides blind nostalgia. It works better if you watched Dragon Ball and then Z and not skipped straight to Z.
It fits what they turned it into sure, but not what the show was supposed to be. Which is something the Faulconer score got flack for, not remaining true to the original feel of the show (among other things, of course). Even the Faucloner score fit what Funi turned their in house dub into: Total schlock, haha.
MasenkoHA wrote: I noticed a lot of younger DBZ dub fans aren't even aware the Saban dub existed. Like just the other week I a reddit asking about the OG English Gohan.....Stephanie Nadolny. Or when comparing to Kai and saying they miss the original voices they mean Funi Z and not the Ocean/Saban/Funi voices....


Doesn't help that people act like Funimation didn't produce the Saban dub.
It's not all age though. I grew up with Ocean's first run on Toonami and had no idea Funi was behind it until years and years later. After Kai was out in fact. Many are still the same way I think. They see "Ocean vs Funi" on YouTube or whatever and haven't done any research so they assume Ocean was the company behind it all with no input from Funi and never look into it past that. So when someone says they prefer the original voices, they're saying what they assume are Funi's original voices, as opposed to Funi's recasts for Kai. Not the original English voices in general.

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Re: The Shuki Levy score

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:55 pm

Forte224 wrote: More just saying things like "Ian Corlett is way better than Schemmel" despite acting and being written like the Superman Goku that Schmmel was written out to be.

Because they're talking about a performance stand point not a writing stand point. As neither Corlett or Schemmel have much control over the writing. And honestly if you want to compare Corlet to Season 3 Schemel or even hell Schemmel by Buu era Z. Corlett is so much better an actor its not even funny. Schemmel could not act in season 3 to save his life. Schemmel finally got up to standard by Kai. I still like Corlett better but I can see why people would prefer Schemmel by Kai.

Even telling Piccolo that taking over the world was "wrong" as if he were some righteous super hero or something. So I guess I'm more referring to the dub than the score.
People don't give the Saban/Ocean/Funi dub a pass either though. It's just less relevant than the dub that's on the Orange Brick and Blue Rays...

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Re: The Shuki Levy score

Post by Forte224 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:00 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Forte224 wrote: More just saying things like "Ian Corlett is way better than Schemmel" despite acting and being written like the Superman Goku that Schmmel was written out to be.

Because they're talking about a performance stand point not a writing stand point. As neither Corlett or Schemmel have much control over the writing. And honestly if you want to compare Corlet to Season 3 Schemel or even hell Schemmel by Buu era Z. Corlett is so much better an actor its not even funny. Schemmel could not act in season 3 to save his life. Schemmel finally got up to standard by Kai. I still like Corlett better but I can see why people would prefer Schemmel by Kai.
Well, I can't argue with any of that.
Even telling Piccolo that taking over the world was "wrong" as if he were some righteous super hero or something. So I guess I'm more referring to the dub than the score.
People don't give the Saban/Ocean/Funi dub a pass either though. It's just less relevant than the dub that's on the Orange Brick and Blue Rays...
Hmm...I guess so. It usually is more certain voices that people praise rather than anything else around it like the writing and direction.

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Re: The Shuki Levy score

Post by HEYitzED » Wed May 16, 2018 1:39 am

The ONLY other music I like other than Faulconer’s.

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Re: The Shuki Levy score

Post by Ringworm128 » Fri May 25, 2018 6:16 am

I honestly haven't watched that much of DBZ with the Ocean cast, however from what I have heard I do agree with the "noise" comments. Now this isn't really a complaint since I'm a big fan of abstract/experimental music but every clip of the 96-98 dub I've seen seems to have what sounds like a variation of the same track, at least in action scenes that is; it all just blends together and nothing has ever really stood out to me.

Except maybe this. Atmospheric as.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAdQXmwCJco
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Re: The Shuki Levy score

Post by TheGreatness25 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:32 am

I liked the score for the most part. It was pretty good. They didn't have as many character-specific theme songs like Faulconer, but that's okay. I really liked "Rock the Dragon." Now when I say that, I don't mean, "Dragon, Dragon, Rock the Dragon, Dragon Ball Z!" The lyrics aren't going to win any awards. But the tune itself was catchy as hell, at least for me. So... I guess they accomplished what they wanted with me lol

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