Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

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Re: Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

Post by 90sDBZ » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:16 am

cRookie_Monster wrote:Settled, ages ago ( December 21, 2005)
Check out the thread I linked above for more details.

Also, btw something I've learned through the grapevine since that old thread and video was that Toei themselves were VERY angry about the whole thing and mandated that Faulconer Productions Music never be used again. 'Cause Toei had to pay legal fees and stuff...so yikes. Bad, real bad.
I knew about the lawsuit with Funi, but not the part about Toei barring Faulconer Productions from being used again. It's a real shame you guys couldn't work on Super actually, as many fans (myself incuded) would love to have you compose new music for the show and possibly remix some old themes too. The number of fans on Youtube who have edited the old score into Super, Kai, and even GT speaks volumes really.

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Re: Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:42 am

90sDBZ wrote:
cRookie_Monster wrote:Settled, ages ago ( December 21, 2005)
Check out the thread I linked above for more details.

Also, btw something I've learned through the grapevine since that old thread and video was that Toei themselves were VERY angry about the whole thing and mandated that Faulconer Productions Music never be used again. 'Cause Toei had to pay legal fees and stuff...so yikes. Bad, real bad.
I knew about the lawsuit with Funi, but not the part about Toei barring Faulconer Productions from being used again. It's a real shame you guys couldn't work on Super actually, as many fans (myself incuded) would love to have you compose new music for the show and possibly remix some old themes too. The number of fans on Youtube who have edited the old score into Super, Kai, and even GT speaks volumes really.
Since they didn't compose for Kai 2009 / 2014, there's really no chance they would have either for Super.

Replacement scores are a thing of the past but there are exceptions.

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Re: Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

Post by Young-Jah » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:27 pm

cRookie_Monster wrote:Like I was saying, Funimation had no history. They started with DBZ. The whole reason that company was formed was to work on DBZ(Gen had an uncle who worked for Toei I believe, so they landed the DBZ license). So Mike and Bruce (who are the people who landed the contract) didn't have anything to analyze. Actually Bruce was going to turn it down is my understanding, but Mike convinced him to take it. I think it was a great move actually, maybe not money-wise, but fame\reputation wise it was a good call.
Why is it a great move, he knows they can't pay him.
Just like Sega got Toei to animate the opening and closing intro and outro for Sonic CD.
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Re: Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

Post by cRookie_Monster » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:30 pm

Young-Jah wrote:
cRookie_Monster wrote:Like I was saying, Funimation had no history. They started with DBZ. The whole reason that company was formed was to work on DBZ(Gen had an uncle who worked for Toei I believe, so they landed the DBZ license). So Mike and Bruce (who are the people who landed the contract) didn't have anything to analyze. Actually Bruce was going to turn it down is my understanding, but Mike convinced him to take it. I think it was a great move actually, maybe not money-wise, but fame\reputation wise it was a good call.
Why is it a great move, he knows they can't pay him.
Just like Sega got Toei to animate the opening and closing intro and outro for Sonic CD.
fame\reputation wise

Also it's not like he didn't make money off DBZ. They did pay him, just not as much as he wanted I guess.
And it kept my household afloat for 1.5 years.

Also it's a damn fun project to work on. I'd rate it as one of the most fun jobs I've ever had actually.
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Re: Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:23 pm

cRookie_Monster wrote:fame\reputation wise

Also it's not like he didn't make money off DBZ. They did pay him, just not as much as he wanted I guess.
And it kept my household afloat for 1.5 years.

Also it's a damn fun project to work on. I'd rate it as one of the most fun jobs I've ever had actually.
The Faulconer score that you and others worked on was really good but most of the criticism is usually because the music would play non-stop, not allowing a moment of silence. So, thanks for it, Cookie and the rest of Faulconer's team. :)

If anyone checks out the custom FUNi Kai dub with the Faulconer score then he/she can see that it was actually pretty decent but hindered by being constantly playing on FUNi's Z dub.

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Re: Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

Post by cRookie_Monster » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:00 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:
cRookie_Monster wrote:fame\reputation wise

Also it's not like he didn't make money off DBZ. They did pay him, just not as much as he wanted I guess.
And it kept my household afloat for 1.5 years.

Also it's a damn fun project to work on. I'd rate it as one of the most fun jobs I've ever had actually.
The Faulconer score that you and others worked on was really good but most of the criticism is usually because the music would play non-stop, not allowing a moment of silence. So, thanks for it, Cookie and the rest of Faulconer's team. :)

If anyone checks out the custom FUNi Kai dub with the Faulconer score then he/she can see that it was actually pretty decent but hindered by being constantly playing on FUNi's Z dub.
Thanks! Yeah that was a Funimation direction, though I think Mike and Bruce liked doing it. I tried to tone the music down if I felt strongly that a scene should have no music (but admittedly I didn't do that very often).
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Re: Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

Post by Kokonoe » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:41 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:If you put your cell phone on vibrate and throw it in the washing machine, you can recreate his score
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXJKr4bnGxk

So you're saying this is nothing more than a cell phone, merely vibrating in a washing machine?

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Re: Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

Post by Fionordequester » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:26 pm

Kokonoe wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXJKr4bnGxk

So you're saying this is nothing more than a cell phone, merely vibrating in a washing machine?
Personally, I was always partial to songs like THIS...

Spirit Bomb Theme (2nd Half)

Something that REALLY contradicts the "loud and obnoxious" narrative I always see thrown around...

First song Scott Morgan ever had published...and still one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard, period.
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Re: Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

Post by Kokonoe » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:02 pm

Fionordequester wrote:
Kokonoe wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXJKr4bnGxk

So you're saying this is nothing more than a cell phone, merely vibrating in a washing machine?
Personally, I was always partial to songs like THIS...

Spirit Bomb Theme (2nd Half)

Something that REALLY contradicts the "loud and obnoxious" narrative I always see thrown around...

First song Scott Morgan ever had published...and still one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard, period.
I mean that's great too. But it's okay, to me, for some of the music to get loud. There's a lot of really loud actions being done in Dragon Ball, it's okay to set the stage for that with a appropriate song to match.

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Re: Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

Post by Fionordequester » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:53 pm

Oh, absolutely. One of my complaints with the Kikuchi soundtrack is that it has the exact opposite problem as the Team Faulconer score; that it DOESN'T play music even in places where it really should. I was just thinking that I wanted a song that defied the stereotype as much as possible; so that's what I went with :P .

Speaking of which, here's another; one that ABED himself ended up liking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmXFtZ-jvzE
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

Post by 90sDBZ » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:19 am

Fionordequester wrote:
Kokonoe wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXJKr4bnGxk

So you're saying this is nothing more than a cell phone, merely vibrating in a washing machine?
Personally, I was always partial to songs like THIS...

Spirit Bomb Theme (2nd Half)

Something that REALLY contradicts the "loud and obnoxious" narrative I always see thrown around...

First song Scott Morgan ever had published...and still one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard, period.
I've always loved that theme. When people say the Faulconer score was nothing but mindless rock or random noise, it's obvious to me they either haven't watched much of the dub at all, or are simply sweeping tracks like this under the rug to fit their narrative. If you watch the dub all the way through there are countless other examples of beautiful serene sounding pieces like this.

I've seen ridiculous comments that the score is someone mindlessly bashing their head on a keyboard, which couldn't be further from the truth. Ok there were some annoying pieces in comedic scenes, and it would have benefited from some silence here and there, but that doesn't undo the fantastic music that plays during many important scenes, like Goku meeting Goten for example.

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Re: Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

Post by Kokonoe » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:02 pm

Fionordequester wrote:Oh, absolutely. One of my complaints with the Kikuchi soundtrack is that it has the exact opposite problem as the Team Faulconer score; that it DOESN'T play music even in places where it really should. I was just thinking that I wanted a song that defied the stereotype as much as possible; so that's what I went with :P .

Speaking of which, here's another; one that ABED himself ended up liking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmXFtZ-jvzE
I certainly agree! The Japanese OST gets way too silent and certain songs lack energy when you need it most. I definitely understand why you are trying to defy the stereotypes since here people are extremely harsh to the point of outright disrespect to the musicians involved, and you're right there's plenty of calm songs. Here is my favorite one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVfHW7C9BG4

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Re: Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:00 pm

Kokonoe wrote:
Fionordequester wrote:Oh, absolutely. One of my complaints with the Kikuchi soundtrack is that it has the exact opposite problem as the Team Faulconer score; that it DOESN'T play music even in places where it really should. I was just thinking that I wanted a song that defied the stereotype as much as possible; so that's what I went with :P .

Speaking of which, here's another; one that ABED himself ended up liking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmXFtZ-jvzE
I certainly agree! The Japanese OST gets way too silent and certain songs lack energy when you need it most. I definitely understand why you are trying to defy the stereotypes since here people are extremely harsh to the point of outright disrespect to the musicians involved, and you're right there's plenty of calm songs. Here is my favorite one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVfHW7C9BG4
If we're sharing favorite Faulconer tracks that "defy the norm" here's one of mine. i love this piece.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phXlrMiIYrw

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Re: Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

Post by Valerius Dover » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:04 pm

While we're on the subject, there actually is a question I have for Scott Morgan here. There are some instances in the series of tracks being different in the remastered version, apparently due to being the tracks originally intended for the scene before they were changed late in production. However, in Episode 70, the entire soundtrack save for the recap and cliffhanger themes has been replaced. Unlike the other Ginyu episodes, the music is all other tracks from the Frieza arc, some of which are now first heard here. The music is also noticeably louder like it is later in the series. And to top it off, the placement of the tracks is very random, like watching Dragon Ball Z Kai with Kikuchi's music all over the place. I know you weren't composing the music that early in the game, nor were you involved with the later release, but do you know what might've happened that would influence this decision? My money's on them somehow losing the original source audio and manually placing the tracks themselves, but I'm hoping you could possibly provide more insight as I've been pondering this for quite some time.
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Re: Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

Post by cRookie_Monster » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:09 am

90sDBZ wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:19 am
Fionordequester wrote:
Kokonoe wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXJKr4bnGxk

So you're saying this is nothing more than a cell phone, merely vibrating in a washing machine?
Personally, I was always partial to songs like THIS...

Spirit Bomb Theme (2nd Half)

Something that REALLY contradicts the "loud and obnoxious" narrative I always see thrown around...

First song Scott Morgan ever had published...and still one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard, period.
I've always loved that theme. When people say the Faulconer score was nothing but mindless rock or random noise, it's obvious to me they either haven't watched much of the dub at all, or are simply sweeping tracks like this under the rug to fit their narrative. If you watch the dub all the way through there are countless other examples of beautiful serene sounding pieces like this.

I've seen ridiculous comments that the score is someone mindlessly bashing their head on a keyboard, which couldn't be further from the truth. Ok there were some annoying pieces in comedic scenes, and it would have benefited from some silence here and there, but that doesn't undo the fantastic music that plays during many important scenes, like Goku meeting Goten for example.

Wow thanks man I really appreciate that! The day that aired on TV was an epic moment for me :) It was a very lucky break to get to write Spirit Bomb music as my first track for the show.
- Scott
http://morganstudios.com

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Re: Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

Post by cRookie_Monster » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:14 am

Valerius Dover wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:04 pm
While we're on the subject, there actually is a question I have for Scott Morgan here. There are some instances in the series of tracks being different in the remastered version, apparently due to being the tracks originally intended for the scene before they were changed late in production. However, in Episode 70, the entire soundtrack save for the recap and cliffhanger themes has been replaced. Unlike the other Ginyu episodes, the music is all other tracks from the Frieza arc, some of which are now first heard here. The music is also noticeably louder like it is later in the series. And to top it off, the placement of the tracks is very random, like watching Dragon Ball Z Kai with Kikuchi's music all over the place. I know you weren't composing the music that early in the game, nor were you involved with the later release, but do you know what might've happened that would influence this decision? My money's on them somehow losing the original source audio and manually placing the tracks themselves, but I'm hoping you could possibly provide more insight as I've been pondering this for quite some time.
Hey there, I have explanations for some of the other changes to the score in subsequent releases (mainly that Evan Jone's edits to our score were lost, but episode 70 is early enough that all I can do is guess a similar guess to yours. I can fill in one small detail which is that at that point in time Faulconer Productions was handling the mix of the show as well as the music, so it's possible they had the final mix (dialogue + sfx + music) but not the separate music stem for that episode. I believe Funimation started doing their own mixes with the Garlic Jr Saga. From then on we would only ship music stems to them.
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Re: Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

Post by Fionordequester » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:25 am

Valerius Dover wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:04 pm
[D]o you know what might've happened that would influence this decision?
Actually, there's a very simple explanation for that. When Team Faulconer scored that episode...they didn't ACTUALLY score the entire episode. They scored about 2/3rds of it; with the other half having been covered in the Ocean dub.

Remember how Ocean was cutting stuff out, and mashing episodes together? Well in the original run, "Episode 70" was actually "Episode 56"... and it started midway through Episode 70, NOT at the start of it!

So for that one episode, it wouldn't have made sense to air the original Team Faulconer placements as-is. Rather, they would've needed to re-score it, so the placements would make sense...

...whether or not they SUCCEEDED at that is, of course, a whole nother issue :P .
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

Post by Young-Jah » Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:38 pm

cRookie_Monster wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:09 am
90sDBZ wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:19 am
Fionordequester wrote:
Personally, I was always partial to songs like THIS...

Spirit Bomb Theme (2nd Half)

Something that REALLY contradicts the "loud and obnoxious" narrative I always see thrown around...

First song Scott Morgan ever had published...and still one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard, period.
I've always loved that theme. When people say the Faulconer score was nothing but mindless rock or random noise, it's obvious to me they either haven't watched much of the dub at all, or are simply sweeping tracks like this under the rug to fit their narrative. If you watch the dub all the way through there are countless other examples of beautiful serene sounding pieces like this.

I've seen ridiculous comments that the score is someone mindlessly bashing their head on a keyboard, which couldn't be further from the truth. Ok there were some annoying pieces in comedic scenes, and it would have benefited from some silence here and there, but that doesn't undo the fantastic music that plays during many important scenes, like Goku meeting Goten for example.

Wow thanks man I really appreciate that! The day that aired on TV was an epic moment for me :) It was a very lucky break to get to write Spirit Bomb music as my first track for the show.
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Re: Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

Post by 90sDBZ » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:43 pm

cRookie_Monster wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:09 am
Wow thanks man I really appreciate that! The day that aired on TV was an epic moment for me :) It was a very lucky break to get to write Spirit Bomb music as my first track for the show.
And thank you for composing such an awesome theme! :) Seriously that track was a huge part of what made the Spirit Bomb episode special to me as a kid. I would always rewatch that episode whenever it got shown again on TV and would get chills from it every time, and still do to this day.

And if that was the first track you composed then what an awesome way to start! :thumbup:

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Re: Bruce Faulconer returning to compose the score for DBS?

Post by thaman91 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:48 pm

cRookie_Monster wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:14 am
I can fill in one small detail which is that at that point in time Faulconer Productions was handling the mix of the show as well as the music, so it's possible they had the final mix (dialogue + sfx + music) but not the separate music stem for that episode. I believe Funimation started doing their own mixes with the Garlic Jr Saga. From then on we would only ship music stems to them.
It's odd though that this only happened with episode 70. Since for all the surrounding episodes (68, 69, 71, 72, and so on), they seem to possess the separate music stem, which they mixed with their redubbed dialogue for those episodes.
Fionordequester wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:25 am
Actually, there's a very simple explanation for that. When Team Faulconer scored that episode...they didn't ACTUALLY score the entire episode. They scored about 2/3rds of it; with the other half having been covered in the Ocean dub.

Remember how Ocean was cutting stuff out, and mashing episodes together? Well in the original run, "Episode 70" was actually "Episode 56"... and it started midway through Episode 70, NOT at the start of it!

So for that one episode, it wouldn't have made sense to air the original Team Faulconer placements as-is. Rather, they would've needed to re-score it, so the placements would make sense...

...whether or not they SUCCEEDED at that is, of course, a whole nother issue :P .
You're probably thinking of episode 68 (episode "54", which was made up of footage from 67 and 68). Episode 70 actually has an uncut version with the original dub voices and Faulconer music, but it seems like they lost the music stem (or never received the separated music stem to begin with) and so they had to pull random music from other episodes to fill out the episode for their redubbed releases.

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