Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

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Re: Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

Post by Rafa Fast » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:42 am

Freeza's Theme! From Sumitomo!
A very dark and calm motif, one of my favorites, fits Freeza very much for me :clap:
Here's some examples
Freeza's Hidden Power
Freeza's Army Arrives
Freeza & His Terrible Power
Merciless Freeza
Birth of Freeza's Army
Freeza Rules
Freeza's Scheme, Death Premonition
Freeza's Wish
An Unexpected Bounty
Freeza & Broly
Freeza's Ambition

But there's also Broly's theme, I think this one is more prominent than the Freeza motif (just wanted to talk about the Freeza one because I really like it :lol: ), it's a four note motif, plays in intense, calm, sad and more ways, I really like this one too, here some examples:
Broly's Theme (Title)
Broly The Wild Child
Broly's Rage & Sorrow
There are way more arrangements of his theme, it's basically the major motif in the movie.

Now, about Kikuchi, I really can't think about a theme that is more memorable than Piccolo's, most of the people just recognize Piccolo's Theme and the Instrumental Arregements of Makafushigi Adobencha, Cha La Head Cha La, We Gotta Power and We Were Angels when the point is Kikuchi score...
Maybe the Fourth Goku's Theme???
There's also Tapion's Theme, but this one just is more know because of his Ocarina arrangement, people doesn't give much attention to other tracks containing his motif.
Kid Gohan's theme is a pretty know one too, different of his Teen/Adult motif, which is unknow for most of the people.
But, if we go to the villains themes, Garlic Jr.'s Theme is no doubt the most well know one, it maybe can be just because of this track, but I think most of the people really know that this melody belongs to Garlic Jr. :think:

Edit:
Also, important note: I'm just couting true character motifs, not insert songs or one single track that the "purpose" is to represent a character, like A Tyrant Revived, which a lot of people think is Freeza's theme, but that is definitely not true, at least not for me, it just sounds similar (most because of the choir), I just count a melody being related to a character when the melody appears in at least two tracks or more (As Bardock's theme in DBS Broly, the motif just shows up in two tracks), and this doesn't happen with any track in DBS Anime score (Except for the Chozetsu Dynamic and Limit Break x Survivor instrumental tracks, and Cha la head cha La as well).
I think a good proof that you can't relate one single track to a character, is the case of the track nammed "Jiren's Theme", which besides obviusly having the character's name on it, this track actually was never used for Jiren in the anime, this is the work of Sumitomo, the anime ost having a lot of random themes, and just the Movies ost having true character motifs, and this is a shame for me, I'm not a fan of the ideia of not including any motif in the Anime scores, Kikuchi included character motifs in both his anime and movies scores, I hope Sumitomo includes at least one or more character motifs when a new Super animes releases.
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Re: Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

Post by Rafa Fast » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:36 am

GhostEmperorX wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:26 am Opening songs and any re-arranged versions of them aren’t exactly like entirely instrumental motifs so I’m inclined to disagree. Character themes are also usually distinct from OP’s and any derived re-arrangements.
Yeah but let's remember, Makafushigi Adobencha and Romantic Ageru Yo were the only OP/END songs used as characters motifs (in this case, Makafushigi for Goku, and Romantic for Bulma) by Kikuchi in the series, the later songs (as Cha La Head Cha La, Zenkai Power, We Gotta Power and Were Angels) weren't used for Characters, and I personally think that is correct to assume that Makafushigi is Goku's theme, because even in the Three OG DB movies, the song is used for Goku scenes only.
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Re: Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

Post by Rafa Fast » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:41 am

Grimlock wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:19 pm Vegeta has "Saiyan Blood" from Dragon Ball Kai. Bardock has "Solid State Scouter" from Dragon Ball Z and "Bardock Falls" from Dragon Ball Super.
The first two songs definitely aren't Vegeta and Bardock themes, but you're right about Bardock Falls being Bardock's theme, finally someone that noticed the motif too, the same motif appears as a variant too in "Freeza's Scheme, Premonition of Death"
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Re: Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

Post by Rafa Fast » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:15 am

DBZ Macky wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:20 am Though as Zestanor pointed out before, it does seem that Makafushigi Adventure and its various versions could be considered as "Goku's Theme" though that only works for the original Dragon Ball Anime, and the last time we prominently hear that (if I recall correctly) is in the Garlic Jr. Movie where they combine both "Goku's Theme" and "Piccolo's Theme" in the final squabble against Garlic Jr.
Actually, the last appearance of Makafushigi Adobencha/Goku's theme in the series, was in Z movie 2, with the last use of the full version of the theme being for when Goku kills Misokatsun, and the last definitive use being as a variant for when Goku uses Kaioken Kamehameha against Dr. Willow.
In a similar vein, it did seem to me that the versions of "We Gotta Power" prior to Goku's return in the Boo arc was mostly associated with Gohan/The Great Saiyaman. Though, of course that doesn't last very long.
Nope, Gohan had his own theme in the Buu Saga Score, and wasn't We Gotta Power or We Were Angels, his theme in this arc is a rearrangement of his theme in the Bojack movie, here his Buu Saga theme.
Freeza has "Tada Kogoeru Elegy" and of course, "F" by Maximum the Hormone
No, Freeza hadn't a theme in Z, and actually in Fukkatsu no F (and in DBS Broly too) his theme isn't Maximum The Hormone's "F", his theme there is this.
Future Trunks has "Hikari no Willpower" and "Lone Warrior", along with arguably "Battle Point Unlimited" (And he always gets the best themes, even in the video games)
Well, even if these songs actually fit Mirai Trunks, and they always being used for him, Trunks never had actually a true theme in the series. But, there are two Kikuchi tracks, "14 Catches Trunks' Sword" (M1412) and "We Did It!" (M1919), the first sequence of M1412 sounds identical to M1919 for me, and the first part of M1412 is used when Trunks tries to attack Android 14 with his sword in Movie 7, and M1919 is used when Trunks releases a ki blast through Bio Broly in Movie 11, this makes me think that these two melodys, having very similar tones and number of notes, maybe can be a possible Kikuchi's attempt on making a Trunks theme, and yeah I know this is pretty ridiculous, I'll understand if you disagree with me :thumbup:
Vegeta has "Saiyan Blood" from Kai, but his most iconic themes are probably from the Faulconer score like "Hell's Bells" etc.
Nope, Vegeta's theme is this :wink:
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Re: Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

Post by Grimlock » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:28 am

Rafa Fast wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:41 amThe first two songs definitely aren't Vegeta and Bardock themes
You are right, "Saiyan Blood" despite being sung by Vegeta's voice actor and its lyrics being about Vegeta, it isn't a Vegeta's theme. Despite "Solid State Scouter" being played in two moments where Bardock is being badass and it going down as being acknowledged or at least related to Bardock character (as it isn't played anywhere else), it isn't a Bardock theme.
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Re: Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

Post by Rafa Fast » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:30 am

Psajdak wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:21 pm Ushio Hashimoto - Romantic Ageru Yo (first ending song) is often associated with Bulma, and it was even used as Bulma's "description" before Aya Hisakawa came out on some show with Dragon Ball Super: Broly seiyu.
Don't forget that Bulma had another theme in the first DB movie too, and wasn't Romantic Ageru Yo.
Toru Furuya (Yamcha) - Wolf Hurricane
Hmmmm...nope, Yamcha have his own theme in DB Movie 1 too.
Satoko Yamano - Hatsukoi wa Kumo ni Notte - the singer in this song is basically singing as if she is Chichi, and how she fell in love with Goku, but the song itself was never heard in anime itself.
I need to say that this is really interesting, but eem, ChiChi sadly never got a theme :roll:
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Re: Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

Post by Rafa Fast » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:38 am

Makaioshin wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:13 am Vegeta's theme tends to play whenever he makes a grand entrance in one of the films. The motif can also be heard when Gogeta appears.
You're right about Vegeta's theme, but not about Gogeta's theme, Gogeta's theme (M2024 and M2025) is actually a mix of the main sequence of Vegeta's theme with the Tail ending of Goku's Fourth Theme.
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Re: Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

Post by Rafa Fast » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:45 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:21 pm Not specific to her character but I’ll always associate this piece with Chi Chi since it was used as a motif for her a lot

https://youtu.be/NztcJ98oCq0
Ooh, "The Water Returns" (M116), you're right, the guys behind the music placement in the series really associated this track with ChiChi, but yeha, it's not for her character, In my personal opinion, it's just one of the random motif tracks from the General Blue Arc Score by Kikuchi.
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Re: Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

Post by Rafa Fast » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:49 am

Desassina wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:39 pm Will Blizzard become associated with Broly? The lyrics kind of made the music his and there were many arrangements in the movie.
Nope, Broly have his own theme, and it doesn't have anything to do with Blizzard, Blizzard actually appears as a separate motif in two tracks.
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Re: Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

Post by Rafa Fast » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:56 am

Robo4900 wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:09 am So, I'm not even close to being an expert, but this is my understanding...

A lot of the characters do have themes (Gohan, Goku, General Blue, I'm pretty sure Bulma has one, etc.), but particularly in Z, there wasn't a whole lot of opportunity for new arrangements of most of the character themes to pop up, since Kikuchi only did two packages of music specifically for the Z series (one at the beginning of Z, one when they changed OPs in episode 200), with Toei instead using Kikuchi's film scores to inject new themes into the series during Z.

Again, I'm no expert on Dragon Ball's score, but to my recollection, Cell doesn't really have a theme in the Kikuchi score, because Kikuchi never composed score for the Cell arc specifically, it was all music from earlier, and reused music from the movies. Similar case for Freeza.

However, Piccolo showed up in a lot of the movies (off the top of my head, he had a major presence in all the first 8 Z movies), and Kikuchi had given him some really good character themes in the package he composed in late DB (there was a specific Piccolo arc score package recorded, which was after the Piccolo arc had concluded in the manga), and I think he did at least one or two rearrangements of it for the first Z package. So, new versions of his theme popped up all throughout his presence in the anime.

For these reasons, you'll probably find there's some pretty good character theming throughout the original DB, and into the early parts of Z, but once we go to Namek, the score in general becomes less specific to the events going on at present. I think Vegeta has a theme or two that pops up now and then thanks to the Saiyan arc score session being after Vegeta had shown up in the manga, but the earliest Z movies didn't really have Vegeta in them, so there weren't any new arrangements of Vegeta's theme for a while.
My boy, Yourself said that you aren't a expert about the scores, but everything you said is literally correct :clap: , don't forget that Vegeta just gets a theme in Movie 7, previously, they just associated M727 with him, but that track isn't his theme.
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Re: Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

Post by Rafa Fast » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:02 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:26 pm Not a major player but next to Piccolo name a more iconic character theme than Upa’s

https://youtu.be/GWXtdYwLFSA
That is not Upa's theme, he just got a theme in DB Movie 3, here are some examples.
Goku Flies Into Rage
this one too
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Re: Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

Post by Rafa Fast » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:14 am

Koitsukai wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:55 pm And Ultra Instinct has two distinctive themes, Ultimate Battle and this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8qg-XzHgUk
"The Final Death Match" really is used just for Migatte no Gokui, but Ultimate Battle ins't used only for Migatte scenes (like, it's used when U7 is about to defeat Aniraza, and Goku & Freeza vs Jiren as well), but, actually both two aren't Migatte No Gokui themes, even if the uses of The Final Death Match are always in Migatte scenes, this track is just another random theme from the anime ost, the motif ins't present in any other track.
If the Moro arc gets adapted to a Movie, I hope Sumitomo makes a theme for Migatte, as he did with SSJGod and Blue.
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Re: Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

Post by Rafa Fast » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:21 am

Majin Buu wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:26 pm To add to all this, there is a leitmotif for the Saiyans that originated in the TV series at the start of Z and shows up going forward in the movies as the Super Saiyan theme. It first shows up in the movies when Goku goes "Super Saiyan" against Slug in Movie 4 and plays more or less every time a character activates the form from then on (for instance, a dark reprise of it plays for Brolly when he activates his "Lendendary" form in Movie 8 ). The exceptions seem to be Movie 5 and Movie 7 (which is strange considering Movie 5 was the first film appearance of Super Saiyan proper and the Japanese title for Movie 7 is literally "The Three Great Super Saiyans").
Actually, you can disagree with me, but I'm pretty sure in Movie 5 the Super Saiyan Motif appears as a variant, when Goku is about to transform in SSJ right after he holds that dead bird, it plays 3 notes that are very similar to Super Saiyan theme first sequence for me.
But I think you're right about Movie 7, I hear the motif nowhere in the M1400 score.
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Re: Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

Post by Rafa Fast » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:34 am

Grimlock wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:28 am
Rafa Fast wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:41 amThe first two songs definitely aren't Vegeta and Bardock themes
You are right, "Saiyan Blood" despite being sung by Vegeta's voice actor and its lyrics being about Vegeta, it isn't a Vegeta's theme. Despite "Solid State Scouter" being played in two moments where Bardock is being badass and it going down as being acknowledged or at least related to Bardock character (as it isn't played anywhere else), it isn't a Bardock theme.
Exactly, Solid State Scouter was part of the ideia "Each Movie or TV Special need to have at least one Insert Song"
Also, just to remember, Vegeta just got a theme in Z Movie 7, everyone says that M727 is his theme (since Saiyans arc), because most of the uses of M727 in the series are associated to his character, and obviously, because the given name for this track was "Vegeta's Theme", but this track was already associated with Raditz in the first episodes, and the motif doesn't appear in any other track, so, that is definitely false, "Vegeta Shows Up" (M1413) is the introduction of his theme.
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Re: Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:11 am

Rafa Fast wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:02 am
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:26 pm Not a major player but next to Piccolo name a more iconic character theme than Upa’s

https://youtu.be/GWXtdYwLFSA
That is not Upa's theme, he just got a theme in DB Movie 3, here are some examples.
Goku Flies Into Rage
this one too
You’re right it’s not Upa’a theme it’s just a music cue that plays exclusively in association with him. Like a theme music or something.

ETA: The official name of the track is “The love between father and son” so Bora and Upa’a theme if calling it just Upa’s theme bothers you too much.

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Re: Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

Post by Majin Buu » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:01 am

Rafa Fast wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:21 amActually, you can disagree with me, but I'm pretty sure in Movie 5 the Super Saiyan Motif appears as a variant, when Goku is about to transform in SSJ right after he holds that dead bird, it plays 3 notes that are very similar to Super Saiyan theme first sequence for me.
But I think you're right about Movie 7, I hear the motif nowhere in the M1400 score.
I did notice what might be the variant you're referring to, but I wrote it off at the time because it's so understated. I'll give it another re-listen.

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Re: Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

Post by Rafa Fast » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:32 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:11 am
Rafa Fast wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:02 am That is not Upa's theme, he just got a theme in DB Movie 3, here are some examples.
Goku Flies Into Rage
this one too
You’re right it’s not Upa’a theme it’s just a music cue that plays exclusively in association with him. Like a theme music or something.

ETA: The official name of the track is “The love between father and son” so Bora and Upa’a theme if calling it just Upa’s theme bothers you too much.
Actually I've made a mistake, the true "Upa's theme" I've mentioned plays in Boora and Upa scenes in the third movie, so You're right about that, the motif represents Boora and Upa's interaction.
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Re: Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

Post by Rafa Fast » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:43 am

Majin Buu wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:01 am
Rafa Fast wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:21 amActually, you can disagree with me, but I'm pretty sure in Movie 5 the Super Saiyan Motif appears as a variant, when Goku is about to transform in SSJ right after he holds that dead bird, it plays 3 notes that are very similar to Super Saiyan theme first sequence for me.
But I think you're right about Movie 7, I hear the motif nowhere in the M1400 score.
I did notice what might be the variant you're referring to, but I wrote it off at the time because it's so understated. I'll give it another re-listen.
No problem, just as a remind, it's right after the "Goku's theme" sequence. Also, there is M1220, I don't recognize the motif in that track, but the whole calm part after the piano intro (before the short action sequence in the ending) reminds me of the Super Saiyan theme, but as a calm variant, but I'm not sure about that, I think it'll be better if I keep analysing.
Also, about your list of Movies scores where the Theme is absent (Movies 5 & 7), you forgot Movie 9, I'm sure the motif is nowhere to be heard in the M1600 score (if you can confirm that a track(s) contains this motif in the score, please tell me because I really can't find a clue of the theme)
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Re: Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

Post by Majin Buu » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:26 am

Rafa Fast wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:43 am No problem, just as a remind, it's right after the "Goku's theme" sequence. Also, there is M1220, I don't recognize the motif in that track, but the whole calm part after the piano intro (before the short action sequence in the ending) reminds me of the Super Saiyan theme, but as a calm variant, but I'm not sure about that, I think it'll be better if I keep analysing.
Also, about your list of Movies scores where the Theme is absent (Movies 5 & 7), you forgot Movie 9, I'm sure the motif is nowhere to be heard in the M1600 score (if you can confirm that a track(s) contains this motif in the score, please tell me because I really can't find a clue of the theme)
You're right about it being absent in Movie 9 too. I probably forgot to mention that one because movies 5 and 7 are more centered around the form than 9 is.

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Re: Any DB character themes that are as prominent as Piccolo’s from the original?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:49 am

I know talking about Team Faulconer in a positive way is sacriledge around these parts, but a majority if not all of the Majin Buu themes in the dub are leitmotifs.

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