Episode #0182 (05 July 2009)

[VegettoEX]

To say that using any of these are elitist makes it sound as though the accusors feel that their version is, in fact, the superior version.

Fair point. I think in our case it's more a description of how we would be described from another side... if that makes any sense... than actually considering it "elitist" ourselves.

The odd thing is that Funimation also changed that specific name. I think they went with Moori or something similar to that. I don't think there is a pun there. Well moori is a fish, but that doesn't work so I don't know why.

Well, "Muuri" is a different character than "Tsuno". Muuri was the one given the new role of Saichourou (which we talked about in this manga review), and acts as such for the remainder of what we see in the series.

Tsuno was the elder in the village that Vegeta destroyed, which as far as I'm aware of, never came back...? Or did they use a later wish to bring back that village, as well...? Seems like they kinda forgot about them...

[The Tori-bot]

The odd thing is that Funimation also changed that specific name. I think they went with Moori or something similar to that. I don't think there is a pun there. Well moori is a fish, but that doesn't work so I don't know why.

No, Muri (in both manga and anime, English and Japanese) was the name of the Namekian elder Saichoro appointed to take his place just before he died.

[Herms]

It was actually right here from the forum, wasn't too long ago either. One of the more recent interviews with the guy, but I don't think it was the one in Shonen Jump where they psuedo-justify the "Djinn Buu" thing unless I'm incorrect on that too.

It wasn't one of those fake Takehashi Beri (or whatever the name is) interviews, was it?

[Tekkaman-James]

Personally, I'm inclined to agree with VegettoEX's mentality on the use of the word "Jinzoningen". While "Artificial Human" is definitely the best English translation I've heard (apart from MechaMen, of course), "Jinzoningen" is just quicker and easier to say (as well as quicker and easier to type).

Also, I would totally love to see another "Inconsistencies" video! Do it, Mike! Please?

[Ramoro-san]

I'd just like to say that the fact that you guys at Daizenshuu EX use the original Japanese names and terms is one of the reasons I was drawn to the site/podcast in the first place. 'Tis a beautiful thing.

[Char Aznable]

Now now, we all know that the correct terminology for them are the RoboWarriors, with Cell being RoboWarrior 21.

Usually I switch between Jinzoningen and Artificial Human when referring to them. I'm ashamed to admit though that sometimes I still occasionally do slip-up with the term Android, even though I know it's wrong. D=

Tsuno was the elder in the village that Vegeta destroyed, which as far as I'm aware of, never came back...? Or did they use a later wish to bring back that village, as well...? Seems like they kinda forgot about them...

...you know, that has really bothered me for a good long time. In that scene, they get collectively miffed at Vegeta over the whole incident, then quickly drop it. After that we never hear about them again, but it doesn't seem like a society as closely knit as the Namekians would just forget about their dead like that. It always made sense to me that sometime during the time skips of the end of the Freeza arc, the Earth Dragon Balls were gathered and used to wish them back to life, but that probably doesn't fit into the math of how many days the time skips take place between. All in all, again, it's just bothered me that they were just forgotten about like that.

I'd just like to say that the fact that you guys at Daizenshuu EX use the original Japanese names and terms is one of the reasons I was drawn to the site/podcast in the first place. 'Tis a beautiful thing.

Agreed, though it isn't entirely the same for me. The last few years of listening to the podcast have taught me the Japanese names and terms more in-depth than surfing the Dragon Ball sites of years ago (probably thanks to hearing them on a weekly basis), and I've since adopted them to the point that many dub versions of them just sound off.

As a brief tie-in story - one time my friend asked me to repeat myself when I used a Japanese name they didn't get at first (I believe it was either Gurudo or Jiisu), which I did. He said that all of my Japanese pronunciations were confusing him, and that I should use the American ones...

- 'But mine are better, aren't they?'
- '...yes...'

[Herms]

Usually I switch between Jinzoningen and Artificial Human when referring to them. I'm ashamed to admit though that sometimes I still occasionally do slip-up with the term Android, even though I know it's wrong. D=

There's actually nothing wrong with using "android" as a translation for jinzouningen. It's the standard English translation for the term, and it's been the standard translation for the term as used in DragonBall since the beginning, used on Japanese merchandise long before Funi or Viz came long. Wikipedia has the Japanese page for jinzouningen set as the Japanese equivalent for the English page on "android", and though the English word android (written out in katakana: アンドロイド) is used in Japanese in addition to jinzouningen, the two are seen as basically equivalent, to the point where entering アンドロイド/android into Japanese Wikipedia will redirect you to the page for jinzouningen. I know Wikipedia isn't exactly infallible, but despite the fact that Mike and co. have often said that "android" isn't an accurate translation for jinzouningen, I don't think they've ever provided any real source for this. It's true that "android" as it's usually used in English doesn't accurately describe what No.17 and No.18 are, but then as far as I can see, jinzouningen as it's usually used in Japanese doesn't accurately describe them either. The Japanese Wikipedia page for the DragonBall androids actually go over this a bit, saying that No.17 and No.18 would technically be kaizouningen, "restructured humans".

[anomaly]

Oh my, the neverending story about the androids/cyborgs in dbz.
AFAIR 16 and 19 are androids, because these were created from scratch without organic sourcematerial.
On the other hand 17, 18 & 20 (Dr. Gero himself) are cyborgs which are "remodeled humans" ("kaizouningen", like in Kamen Rider).
Cell is a different game again, he was cloned with a combination of different sources from our heroes/villians. But later on he absorbs 17 & 18, so what does that make him now???
I know everyone was called a "jinzouningen" but that's just Toriyama doing his thing again.
To make this post even more fubar as it already is. In the german dub these "beings" are called Cyborgs entirely. And it doesn't stop there, all numbered ones got an "C" infront of there names (C16, C17, C18, C19, C20).

btw. Char how's Lalah Sune doing? I'm just kidding....

[jda95]

When you started talking about time jumps, I remembered that Bulma had three hairstyles in this volume!

[VegettoEX]

I know Wikipedia isn't exactly infallible, but despite the fact that Mike and co. have often said that "android" isn't an accurate translation for jinzouningen, I don't think they've ever provided any real source for this.

It's less about the "accuracy" and more the stories and explanations behind it all, which is why I personally choose not go straight-up say "Android" with each and every single one of them. Like I noted on the show, I collectively refer to the group of them as "jinzoningen" (which... admittedly... isn't any better than just "androids"...), and then individually as "#(number)". If we get a chance to go further in-depth, I'm always happy to bring in android/robot/cyborg/etc.

[MCDaveG]

What I heard about this jinzoningen thing, that if jinzoningen is artffical human in full translation, hen the mosaccurate word is then cyborg? Because cyborg is made of human robot. Like Robocop.

[Char Aznable]

Usually I switch between Jinzoningen and Artificial Human when referring to them. I'm ashamed to admit though that sometimes I still occasionally do slip-up with the term Android, even though I know it's wrong. D=

There's actually nothing wrong with using "android" as a translation for jinzouningen. It's the standard English translation for the term, and it's been the standard translation for the term as used in DragonBall since the beginning, used on Japanese merchandise long before Funi or Viz came long. ...

Interesting, I've assumed that using the term 'android' as a translation for jinzoningen was simply an attempt to summarize the more literal translation of 'artificial human', because early Dragon Ball fansites writing episode or story arc summaries didn't want to constantly type out 'Artificial Human 18' or 'Artificial Human 20', for example. Then when the English versions for those episodes started being produced, FUNimation simply didn't want to use the awkward-sounding phrase 'artificial human' in the dub, and stuck with 'android'.

[TrunksTrevelyan0064]

On another topic, it should be noted that Jeff may now watch the Driving Episode. I'm rather surprised that it wasn't mentioned during the babble about filler with Gohan's evil teacher, and him having a nightmare about Freeza...