Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

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VegettoEX
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Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:13 pm

Episode #0246 (download MP3) (rss feed)
##:##; 96 kbps, mono; ##.# MB

Episode #0246! VegettoEX, Meri, and Jeff dive into volume 37 in our "Manga Review of Awesomeness". The Dragon World is quickly being expanded with new gods, new villains, and a turn into more magical territory than we have seen in quite some time. Is this the only place left for the series to go? Tons of news, music revelations, February's releases, and an in-depth discussion of how foreign fans can go about getting proper releases in their country rounds out the episode. Referenced sites:
w0rd.
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Re: Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

Post by DragonBoxZTheMovies » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:31 pm

Yes! New episode! Will download now.
EDIT: I just noticed they changed the Madman cover back to the US version. Before it looked like Madman had touched it up a bit and changed the picture.
EDIT: Just realized you guys are closing in on the end of the Manga. What do you plan on doing afterwards? Filler Review of Awesomeness? GT Review of Awesomeness? Movie Review of Awesomeness?
Still listening by the way.

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Re: Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:15 pm

Loved the discussion about Gohan and Videl. It's one of my most favorite relationships in the series. Somehow I can just imagine Pilaf having fun if he got a chance to make fun of those two.

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Re: Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

Post by DragonBoxZTheMovies » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:25 pm

I can't seem to download the full thing to my MP4. It always finishes at the 54th minute rather than at the 76th minute. I've cleared some space on my mp4, but it still isn't working. :? I'll just listen to it online for now. :wink:

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Re: Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:38 pm

DragonBoxZTheMovies wrote:I can't seem to download the full thing to my MP4. It always finishes at the 54th minute rather than at the 76th minute. I've cleared some space on my mp4, but it still isn't working. :? I'll just listen to it online for now. :wink:
Complete file is definitely up. Confirmed via my own download as well as what iTunes automatically downloaded.
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Re: Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

Post by skatezeppelin » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:41 pm

Just listened and was happy to hear my comment on facebook mentioned in the podcast. I had just re watched all of weeklytubeshows dubs and was feeling bold like the dingaling man himself.

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Re: Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:56 am

DragonBoxZTheMovies wrote:Yes! New episode! Will download now.
EDIT: I just noticed they changed the Madman cover back to the US version. Before it looked like Madman had touched it up a bit and changed the picture.
EDIT: Just realized you guys are closing in on the end of the Manga. What do you plan on doing afterwards? Filler Review of Awesomeness? GT Review of Awesomeness? Movie Review of Awesomeness?
Still listening by the way.
This would good idea, given that Mike hasn't seen all of GT himself. :wink:

Mike, your advice for João to import foreign releases is a sound one, but it does have flaws, they're not in Portuguese. While João does have an understanding of the English language, he may be more comfortable with a release in his native tongue (either dub-wise, or subtitle wise). The Spanish releases aren't a good option for him since I'm not aware of any English being on those releases, and while Spanish and Portuguese share similarities, the two are different languages. However, getting like minded fans to petition their local distributor and licensing company (AB Groupe...) to supply a decent release is a good option.

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Re: Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

Post by DragonBoxZTheMovies » Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:52 am

Super Saiyan Prime wrote:
DragonBoxZTheMovies wrote:Yes! New episode! Will download now.
EDIT: I just noticed they changed the Madman cover back to the US version. Before it looked like Madman had touched it up a bit and changed the picture.
EDIT: Just realized you guys are closing in on the end of the Manga. What do you plan on doing afterwards? Filler Review of Awesomeness? GT Review of Awesomeness? Movie Review of Awesomeness?
Still listening by the way.
This would good idea, given that Mike hasn't seen all of GT himself. :wink:
I seem to recall in one of the 'Sparking Neo' episodes that if Mike didn't do a GT review by 2009, Meri would get to kick him in the shins. :lol:

Just finished listening to the episode, by the way. It was great, as usual.

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Re: Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

Post by songohan619 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:34 am

Hei, Mike.
I tried to send the podcast an email last summer, but i has not been read yet.
Did you not recieve it?

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Re: Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

Post by sbk » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:06 pm

I liked the manga review. The 25th Tenkaichi is my favorite part from the Buu arc.

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Re: Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

Post by Herms » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:44 pm

About half of the Boo arc takes place on one day (May 7th, Age 774 by the Daizenshuu 7 timeline): the day of the tournament takes up 49 of the story arc’s 99 chapters. It’s the second longest day in the manga (as I go over here). The longest is the day of the battles with the Ginyu Force and Freeza (December 24th, Age 762), which is a whopping 60 chapters. As for how many days the Boo arc lasts, there’s a bit of a controversy. Daizenshuu 7 says Boo gets destroyed on May 8th, the very next day after he’s unleashed, but if you keep track of things you see that two days actually pass between his revival and death, placing his defeat on May 9th (basically, Boo revives, shit happens, the narrator says a day passes, then Gohan begins his 25-hour power-up, his power-up finishes, more shit happens, the end).

With Boo, I find it kinda funny that Jeff can’t take him seriously because of his name, whereas apparently “piccolo”, “vegetable”, “freezer”, and “cell” are suitably intimidating.

As for “Shonen power creep”, I find it odd that you guys seem to think that it’s just now getting hard to take seriously. I mean, it’s been 20 volumes since the aliens who are way stronger than the super-demon who’s way stronger than God showed up. I think we passed “silly” a long time ago.

I mean, let’s break this down: First we’ve got (1) Kame-sennin, who’s supposed to be the strongest in the world, until (2) Tenshinhan surpasses him, only to have his clock cleaned by (3) Drum, who then gets instantly killed by (4) Goku, who fights evenly with Piccolo but then is completely outclassed by (5) Popo, who admits that he’s far weaker than (6) God, but then even God is no match for (7) the reborn Piccolo, who trains for an additional five years just to be treated like a kid by (8) Raditz, but even he wouldn’t have been any match for (9) Piccolo and the other Earth warriors after their year of training, though all of them together can’t defeat (10) Nappa, who’s taken down in no time by (11) Kaio-Ken Goku, who can’t beat (12) Vegeta, who we later learn wasn’t much compared to (13) Zarbon or Dodoria, who then are outclassed by (14) Vegeta after his power-up from the battle on Earth, though he then gets the tar beat out of him by (15) transformed Zarbon, but Vegeta powers up again and beats Zarbon only to be wiped out by (16) Recoom, who’s effortlessly defeated by (17) Goku after his gravity training, but even Goku is no match for (18) Ginyu, at least not until he (19) uses Kaio-Ken and outclasses him, though even then he can’t hold a candle to (20) first-form Freeza, who’s only about half as strong as (21) his second form, who furthermore can’t compare to his (22) third form, which as you might expect by now is no match for (23) his fourth form, who Goku seems to fight evenly with only to be utterly outclassed after (24) Freeza starts using only 50% of his power, but even at 100% of his power he finally gets outdone by (25) Super Saiyan Goku, who trains hard for three years only to be no match for (26) Androids No.17 and 18, who turn out to be much weaker than (27) Android No.16, whose head is effortlessly blown to bits by (28) second-form Cell, who is humiliatingly outdone by (29) Super Vegeta, who freaks out when he feels only half of (30) Full Power Super Saiyan Goku’s power, but even Goku is no match for (31) perfect Cell, who self-destructs only to (32) revive in a much more powerful form, only to finally be destroyed by (33) Super Saiyan 2 Gohan, who we now learn probably wouldn’t be any match for this new villain, (34) Majin Boo.

So why are steps 1-33 in that sequence perfectly OK, but suddenly at step 34 now it’s over the top? I think Mike and Meri, and even Jeff what with his prior exposure to the Cell Games and early Boo stuff, are just too used to the middle “Z” portion of the story and so accept Freeza or Cell’s power as a given, when really they’re just as ridiculous as Boo.

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Re: Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:56 pm

Yeah, I realized the arc takes place over SLIGHTLY longer than a day as I was saying it, but for hyperbolic purposes it sounded better that way :P.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I stand by my assessment of the Buu arc being the point where it's hard to take the power-creep seriously... because the author, himself, ends up setting the whole thing as almost completely ridiculous. I'm looking at it from a larger perspective where I know how the story ends up, though.

- To be fair, it's the "middle portion" of the Buu arc that's set up as ridiculous (everything from Fat Buu up through somewhere around Gohan showing back up). Even with Kaioshin being scared out of his mind at Buu, everyone else is just kinda scratching their heads with this pink guy. I get that it's the whole point for him, but it affects me as a reader knowing that the heroes aren't really taking him seriously (even though they end up needing to, since he's just so mindless with his destruction).

- Everyone else has been a "serious" villain with nefarious intentions (though I suppose Cell was debatable) since after Pilaf, so the power-creep still felt dangerous without the author winking at us from the sidelines.

- The SSJ3 transformation and particularly fusion were last-ditch efforts at "keeping with the creeping" (someone trademark that for me); it gets worse when you know that Toriyama had someone else come up with fusion just so he could keep it going, but I suppose that's meta-level dissection that a casual reader wouldn't get into.

It's not a matter of just how strong these villains are (and how strong our heroes get), but the implementation of how it all happens and how we're supposed to accept it. I'm perfectly cool with things taking a right-turn into magic territory (fusion, earrings, even more power-unlocks with awesome circle dancing)... but I'm forced to admit that here's the point where Toriyama's grasping at straws.

It's still fun, though!
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Re: Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

Post by Cipher » Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:56 pm

VegettoEX wrote: - Everyone else has been a "serious" villain with nefarious intentions (though I suppose Cell was debatable) since after Pilaf, so the power-creep still felt dangerous without the author winking at us from the sidelines.
This is part of why I love the Boo arc though. How many more steps can you go through without the author winking at you from the sidelines?

I suppose it depends on what you want to get out of the series though. It seems like people tend to either laud the Cell arc or the Buu arc while disliking the other for that very reason. They're both past the point of the series progressing in a natural manner, and kind of represent the opposite ends of its tonal spectrum.

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Re: Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

Post by Herms » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:54 pm

VegettoEX wrote:I can't speak for anyone else, but I stand by my assessment of the Buu arc being the point where it's hard to take the power-creep seriously... because the author, himself, ends up setting the whole thing as almost completely ridiculous. I'm looking at it from a larger perspective where I know how the story ends up, though.
For me, I have the opposite reaction. I find that the Boo arc's more lighthearted tone makes me more accepting of all the ridiculousness, whereas with some of the earlier arcs the fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously either, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. Instead, precisely because it isn't being set up as oh so seriously serious danger, I can get on board with it easier than with the Saiyan or Freeza stuff, if that makes sense. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly. At least in the Boo arc Toriyama seems to know the kind of story he's telling.

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Re: Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

Post by tinlunlau » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:34 pm

There is this illegal Chinese streaming site that has put up the first episode of Dragon Ball Kai (Mandarin dub). I've seen it. They have indeed kept Dragon Soul and that Yeah Break Care Break song in Japanese. Also noted that if you watch the Taiwanese broadcast in Taiwan, you can also switch over to its original Japanese audio track if you want.

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Re: Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

Post by Turtle Marked Stone » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:21 pm

I agree Dragonball has always been hilariously dumb with how powerful people are. I'm not really sure why'd you even enjoy the series at all if you can't suspend your disbelief to take it seriously to be honest. From the beginning Goku could destroy monsters 10 times his size with a single punch and destroy an entire army without any reason behind it.

For me it's the story telling aspect that gets to me about this arc rather than anything to do with power. However I discussed this to death so I won't get into it. I still enjoy a lot of aspects about this saga though despite me not loving the overall result.

I'm excited to see what Jeff says when he sees Boo for the first time. It made me smile when he was talking about how silly the name is and how he couldn't take the villain seriously with it. It's a shame we'll have to wait for the volume after next.

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Re: Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:30 pm

If I haven't made it clear, I certainly don't want my (over-)analysis to come across as "not enjoying it", because that's certainly not the case. This is just what the "Manga Review of Awesomenesss" is all about -- taking a step back and looking at it from a perspective both as someone who's read/watched it before, as well as jumping into the boots of someone who's experiencing it for the first time. I hope everyone else enjoys that part as much as I do, all in addition to the underlying story material :).
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Re: Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

Post by Rukura » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:14 pm

Yay, i'm finally on the forum! By the way, thanks for the help with that, Mike. Just registered again and it went flawless.

I just wanted to leave a few comments on the question and response as well as ask a few quick questions for anyone that can answer them regarding the Spanish release.

First of all, i just wanted to thank Jeff for the awesome nickname! Great Lo-Fidelity reference there. And thanks for including the e-mail and taking the time to adress it. I also wanted to apologize, since it felt kinda rude to me not greeting everyone on the podcast (i guess it was the mood i was in :?)

Oh, when i said "the 3rd and 4th openings of GT airing raw on tv" i really meant endings, although it seems everyone was aware of my mistake there lol

You guys brought really good points. The "come visit, bring lots of money" is certainly something that crossed my mind at some point. And, taking a step back, i ended up realizing that since it's on constant re-runs on tv they'll never do a proper home release, much less try to make a release of the Japanese version...and it feels like that's what always negated them thinking of a home release.
It pretty much ended with "you're better off getting the Spanish releases" which right now seems the best option (specially after looking up the offers through ZonaDvd...or Z on a dvd lol

What really got me was saying that they got Dragon Box masters (which even made me re-listen to episode 28 of the podcast) because i always tuned out at "Spanish Remastered Sets" since my brain connected that term to a release a la "orange bricks". And even the Z sets are called "Dragon Box".
I tried looking up what they were, and from what i ran across it seems like it's some sort of Dragon Box master further cleaned up and re-encoded seemingly to enhance it's quality......but i couldn't manage to find any truly reliable information confirmed that.
I'm hoping it really is something of that sorts. A proper finalized release of the Japanese version of Dragon Ball is something i've wanted for years now, and i can't wait to happily end that quest :lol:
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:Mike, your advice for João to import foreign releases is a sound one, but it does have flaws, they're not in Portuguese. While João does have an understanding of the English language, he may be more comfortable with a release in his native tongue (either dub-wise, or subtitle wise). The Spanish releases aren't a good option for him since I'm not aware of any English being on those releases, and while Spanish and Portuguese share similarities, the two are different languages. However, getting like minded fans to petition their local distributor and licensing company (AB Groupe...) to supply a decent release is a good option.
While i would prefer a release with English (being almost my native language lol) or Portuguese subtitles, i do have enough familiarity with the Spanish language that i can feel confortable with having those subtitles. Plus, the fact that they seem to be a great deal right now is what might ultimately seal the deal for me XD
And thanks for the thought :)

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Re: Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

Post by Puto » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:03 am

I live in Portugal too, and have ordered some of the spanish remastered releases. Here's a very basic idea of how they are:

- They are all based on the Dragon Box masters, but with various differences:
-- Z sets are a bit blurred (not much, but still) and lack the next episode previews (DB and GT sets have them, though). All sets have the correct openings and endings.
-- Of course, the footage had to be converted to PAL, that is to say, converted to 25fps and upscaled to 576i. That's not too bad for the series, but the PAL upscaling for the movies is pretty bad.
-- The Spanish subtitles are accurately translated. They do, however, use a few rather awkward name romanisations. Notably, Kuririn/Krillin is referred to as "Klylyn". Gokû's name is inconsistently rendered as Gokuh in earlier sets (first few Z sets and the GT sets), and Goku in later ones (later Z sets, DB, all movies and specials). All attack names (Makankosappo, Kame Hame Ha, etc) are left in Japanese.
-- A few early episodes of GT have way better quality Japanese audio than the Dragon Box (this is not a bad thing! =P)
-- The Bardock special, interestingly, includes the preview for it in the extras.

I think that's pretty much it...

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Re: Episode #0246 (30 January 2011)

Post by Rukura » Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:03 pm

Awesome! (I'm from Lisboa, by the way)
From what you're saying, the few flaws it seems to have don't seem too bad, it looks like a pretty good release and seems to be what i've been looking for for ages lol (It's not the Japanese Dragon Boxes, but i will gladly take them with a huge smile across my face)

"Klylyn" is probably one of those things that'll make me giggle everytime i read it. They probably didn't know what the pun could be. Hell, i'd even take Kurilin lol (but i guess the effort is apreciated, besides, we know what it's supposed to be anyway). Along with "Gokuh", it's already looking like an idea for a drinking game :lol:
Preview for the Bardock special sounds like a specially extra cool for me lol

Just one more thing, though. I was gonna order the 2nd Movie Box and the 1st Z Box right away through dvdgo....but i noticed most of the sets are unavailable there..... Is there any way to request that order from them or order it anywhere else?

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