Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

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VegettoEX
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Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:21 am

Episode #0279 (download MP3) (rss feed) (subscribe in iTunes)
83:35; 96 kbps, mono; 57.7 MB

Episode #0279! VegettoEX, Meri, Jeff, and Kaboom dive in to our first DragonBall GT Review of Awesomeness! With the manga review complete, it is time to take a grand tour into a manga-less story. Just how involved was original author Akira Toriyama, does Toei set the stage well with how he left the characters, and just how interested are we to see where this story is heading? Big news about online streaming and the upcoming "Episode of Bardock" anime adaptation, the announcement of our Blu-ray contest winner, and your thoughts on DBGT round out the episode! Referenced sites:
Wow. Starting up the DBGT review. We didn't actually think we'd get there, either. Well... OK, I kinda did.

Turns out Julian had a last-minute, emergency choir rehearsal (how often do you hear that as an excuse...?!), so we'll be sure to catch up with his thoughts next time around!
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Re: Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

Post by PuppetDoctor » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:17 pm

Very good podcast. I really enjoyed hearing your beginning thoughts on DBGT and look forward to future episodes.

As for my thoughts on the episodes the one thing that stood out to me was the music. I last watched Dragon Ball GT when the season sets came out so that was a few years ago now, and I remember really enjoying the score at that time. I guess since then I have become more of a fan of Kikuchi music (bar Kai replacement score) and I really didn't enjoy Tokunaga's score as much. Maybe as we get onto later episodes my opinion of that will change more but currently its not as good as I remember it. I enjoy the opening song for Dragon Ball GT but the current ending for these episodes is not my favorite. My favorite ending song hands down is the second ending song which is actually played in the least amount of episodes sadly.

As for the animation/art style I still dislike GT in that department. I don't like the new character designs either especially with Vegeta's mustache although a future scene that relates to it is very humorous. The character themselves for the most part I do not mind though except for Trunks. I don't like the role that he has become as the "babysitter." I am more of a fan of Kid Trunks when he was all bratty and I don't like that Trunks is basically turned into the guy who has to control all the matters. Pan is annoying as usual in her little stunts but that is part of her character so I can accept that. It is like how Laura is annoying in Silent Hill 2 but that is also part of her character, and, the end result is most people hate both Pan and Laura.

The episodes themselves I watched a few weeks ago so some things may be be rusty memory wise but I do remember I enjoyed the first two episodes. I never was a fan of the space travel stuff because I found that it dragged along. There were some parts of certain episodes (I don't remember the episode numbers) that I did enjoy like when Trunks, Goku, and Pan were in the hotel thinking they were finally away from everything being priced and Goku began pigging out, Trunks lying on the bed, and Pan trying to take a shower only for the price meters to keep on charging humorous but that was about it. After that everything else seemed to just get boring and drag on a bit until we finally got to the fight with Reddick. Which leads me to the point of how did he know they (Goku, Pan, and Trunks) were saiyans since by then they should have been almost all extinct for years. That line kind of threw me off guard while watching.

The Black Star Dragon Balls (Ultimate Dragon Balls) being there is another thing that kind of bugs me since they were never even mentioned until now and all of a sudden they come out of nowhere. Also, I am glad you mentioned in the podcast about how Pilaf and company got up to Kami's Lookout. It always bugged me in Dragon Ball Z that Bulma could fly up with her airplane to Kami's Lookout when it was said that airplanes couldn't reach the top of Kami's Lookout in Dragon Ball.

I am probably forgetting somethings and there are other things I could add such as Goku's Instant Transmission not working as a kid but I accepted that and it later becomes a plot device. There are some things in the future which I remember happens that annoy the crap out of me about Dragon Ball GT but I will save that for when we reach those episodes.

I thought the coffee IV dip conversation was funny and your solution to that all is Mill St. Coffee Porter but sadly you cannot get this delicious beer in New Jersey.

Edit: I just wanted to add that I never knew until this podcast that Videl and Pan are played by the same voice actress in Japanese. I must say that Yūko Minaguchi does an excellent job on both roles.

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Re: Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:58 pm

Yeah, five episodes was good for this first episode. Let's break the rest down...well, aside from the next two months' already scheduled episodes. :P

Episodes #16-22 are the M2 arc, so that's...two months of four episodes, if you want.

Episodes #23-27 is the "Baby conquers Earth!" arc. That's five episodes, so I think that's a good amount to review! Remember to note that there is a five week break inbetween episodes #24 and #25!

Episodes #28-32, while six episodes, do end off on a good ending before we reach...

Episodes #34-40, yeah...seven, but they finish the big fight!

Gokuu Gaiden! Yuuki no Akashi wa Suushinchuu

Episodes #41-47, the entirety of the Hell Fighter Super No. 17 arc!

Episodes #48-51, four episodes that are mostly standalone.

Episodes #52-56, five episodes! Finishes off two or three more Dragons.

Episodes #57-60, the first half of the final fight!

Episodes #61-64, the final chapter.

So...a total of thirteen episodes! Why, that's the number of episodes in a cours! And Dragon Ball GT is sixty-four episodes, one off from being five full cours! Oh-ho!

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Re: Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:06 pm

There's no way we're going to do seven episodes in a single review. That's just way too much material to cover. If you think about a regular ol' DB or DBZ episode as covering between two and three chapters worth of material, seven episodes would be the equivalent of anywhere from 14-21 chapters, which puts it in the kanzenban+ realm... which... would suck.

I'll definitely be aware of arc breaks here and there for breaking up review episodes, but if we have to do something that's only three episodes for a review, so be it -- I'd rather draw it out an extra month that way than overdo it and risk not covering stuff as in-depth (or simply as "well") as we'd like to due to brain overload.
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Re: Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

Post by Cipher » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:28 pm

Sean/Kaboom: "It's probably tied with Cipher's one post."

Haha, wait, what?

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Re: Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

Post by Kaboom » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:39 pm

Cipher wrote:Sean/Kaboom: "It's probably tied with Cipher's one post."
Haha, wait, what?
That one amazingtastic post you made analyzing the ending of GT where Goku miraculously survives against and defeats Yi Xing Long and then departs with Shenlong under mysterious circumstances.

That was you, right...?

EDIT: Why yes... yes, it was.
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Re: Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:50 pm

VegettoEX wrote:There's no way we're going to do seven episodes in a single review. That's just way too much material to cover. If you think about a regular ol' DB or DBZ episode as covering between two and three chapters worth of material, seven episodes would be the equivalent of anywhere from 14-21 chapters, which puts it in the kanzenban+ realm... which... would suck.

I'll definitely be aware of arc breaks here and there for breaking up review episodes, but if we have to do something that's only three episodes for a review, so be it -- I'd rather draw it out an extra month that way than overdo it and risk not covering stuff as in-depth (or simply as "well") as we'd like to due to brain overload.
Oh, good. I did figure that would be out of the question, but I figured I'd just toss it out there. If I weren't lazy I'd have broken into listing alternatives, but...it's the morning and I was tired. :P

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Re: Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

Post by Cipher » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:55 pm

Kaboom wrote:
Cipher wrote:Sean/Kaboom: "It's probably tied with Cipher's one post."
Haha, wait, what?
That one amazingtastic post you made analyzing the ending of GT where Goku miraculously survives against and defeats Yi Xing Long and then departs with Shenlong under mysterious circumstances.
Oh, I knew what you were talking about. I was just pleasantly surprised by the name drop.

Listened to about the first half of the episode; will respond with full thoughts later.

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Re: Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:57 pm

Ah yes, I forgot to say that I'm surprised we didn't get any cracks about how FUNi handled the show and the marketing initially...or that rap. :oops: :P

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Re: Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

Post by Kaboom » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:02 pm

JulieYBM wrote:Ah yes, I forgot to say that I'm surprised we didn't get any cracks about how FUNi handled the show and the marketing initially...or that rap. :oops: :P
At one point, we tied Jeff to a chair, gagged his mouth and pried open his eyes, and forced him to watch FUNi's rap opening (and then their 'Bit By Bit' to cleanse everyone's brains). Afterwards while we were chatting about it, I did at least mention how having the original music actually helped make the dub moderately enjoyable (despite making the 'HARDCORE' narrator sound obscenely out of place).

Unfortunately, this was later on, after the recording was finished, and by then we were all just lounging around upstairs staring at Mike and Meri's cats.
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Re: Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:03 pm

JulieYBM wrote:Ah yes, I forgot to say that I'm surprised we didn't get any cracks about how FUNi handled the show and the marketing initially...or that rap. :oops: :P
We had a couple separate cracks about it among ourselves on our own time, but I really felt like that would take away from the content of the show that we're trying to focus on, and really wasn't relevant or necessary to cover.

Also, didn't watch it. Don't f-in' care :).
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Re: Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

Post by Pokewhiz7 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:44 pm

Just wait till you get to the Para Para Brothers. :lol:

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Re: Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

Post by Akumaito Beam » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:33 am

An enjoyable episode (per the norm). On a side note, I interpreted Pan crying from the soda can as her being humiliated that somebody threw trash at her as opposed to any physical pain. I'm pretty sure that was the writers slightly hamfisted way of reminding us that Pan acts tough but emotionally she's still a kid. Definitely looking foward to future episodes. Is Kaboom going to be a regular guest on these segment?

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Re: Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

Post by Cipher » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:25 am

Ah, well. Thoughts, thoughts.

GT in general

As a basis for all this, I love GT. It can be a bit baffling at times, and sure, the writing by committee shows. I even sympathize with Jeff's feeling that a concrete plot/gimmick setting up the series (in the style of some other yearly anime, right?) is a bit off-putting compared to the previous two series. But overall, I find it's really a fun, gorgeous and strangely nostalgic series. For something written by committee, it has a lot of heart. And it's the kind of thing Toriyama would have never done (in the best possible way). Oh, and the soundtrack is fantastic. It's got a strangely pastel, '50s vibe, doesn't it?

That all said, I really have mixed feelings about the first arc (episodes 1 through 22). Most of that sense of heart and nostalgia doesn't really show up until after the Baby arc (when it starts going into endgame mode). On the other hand, Goku, Pan, Trunks and Giru adventuring around is a lot of fun. My feelings really just vary by each mini-arc. I'll keep this response limited to the set-up episodes and Imegga right now.

The first five episodes

The first two episodes are indeed great; bits like the kidnappers' calls to Vegeta and Bulma are priceless. I love being reintroduced to all the frumpy, settled-down characters. Imegga's really a mixed bag. I love episode three; it's a fun little set up. But I feel three episodes may have been too long to spend on the planet; i.e., episodes 4 and 5 could probably have been combined for the better. It's kind of a pacing killer to start off the premise only to strand them sans Dragon Balls for three whole episodes. The fight with Redict isn't much of a climax either. But hey, mad love for that "battle waltz" theme played as the gang takes back their spaceship in episode 4. I think it's only used, what, one other time in the series?

Oh, and two quick complaints regarding things that, while they aren't really wrong, are huge wastes of potential. First, Oob is a huge disappointment, sidelined from the first episode. As much as I enjoy the series, it's obvious they just had no idea what to do with him. Second, and this is a complaint about the "grand tour" in general, the last time the characters went into space, they destroyed an intergalactic mob. Twenty years later, shouldn't there at least be some ... remnants, or something? Did everyone just forget Freeza existed? Seems like a glaringly obvious plot point (at least for an episode or two) that just ... never happened.

Specific responses to podcast content

Huh. I guess Kaboom thinks Goku vs. Redict is enough of a climax. C'est la vie.

I absolutely agree with Jeff about being glad the series is returning to a Dragon Ball hunt. I consider the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai.a fine ending for Goku's character, but the abuse of the Dragon Balls (and the objects themselves) are left glaringly unaddressed. GT thankfully fixes this. You know, especially later.

Mixed feelings from everyone about the new palette and art? I think it's one of the series' best qualities. As for the art, moving away from Toriyama's panels gives way for some much more dynamic poses and settings, much in the vein of the movies (and most of which are waiting in future episodes).

M2 put Mike to sleep, of all arcs? I actually thought that was by far the most exciting mini-arc.

Finally, I'm always surprised to see how incensed people are by the ultimate Dragon Balls and Pilaf's knowledge of them. Sure, it's an out-of-the-blue development, but is it really any more absurd than a Red Ribbon scientist we've never seen developing Androids stronger than Freeza? Or hell, Freeza existing in the first place, when nothing of the sort was hinted at during the Saiyan arc? Is it any different than the levels upon levels of gods being introduced one after the other. I just don't see it being all that more ridiculous than Toriyama's previous ass pulls.

Pilaf's role doesn't bother me either. Why is it strange for him to know about the ultimate Dragon Balls but not strange for him to know about, and be able to locate Piccolo's rice-cooker earlier in the series? Random occult knowledge is nothing new for the little guy (and for all we know, he knew about them because of his dealings with Piccolo Daimao). And any sense of real mysticism regarding God's Palace was lost long ago, with characters coming and going willy-nilly, Dende being brought into the role to create more Dragon Balls, etc. Dende's distracted; Pilaf can get up to the palace. Not a big deal.

(Oh, and the ultimate Dragon Balls haven't been sitting up there for the "last 50 years." My understanding was always that they had only come back into existence when God and Piccolo recombined in the Cell arc.)

Bottom line

Love GT, first half of the series is spotty, first five episodes are really kind of "meh." Looking forward to future podcasts.

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Re: Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

Post by Son Goshen » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:27 am

Great episode. The first five episodes were interesting but the entirety of GT was just too repetitive, though (which I know many say that). Still thought the part with the kidnappers was stupid..

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Re: Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

Post by Super Vejito » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:26 pm

I've recently purchased the two DBGT collections from Amazon, so I might rewatch the series at least partially. I remember not liking the first half much, but thinking the second half was tolerable. I guess that means I prefer red monkey Goku beating up silly villains as opposed to an attempt at recreating early DB. The GT series isn't even that bad though if you forget DB and DBZ exist, but they do and GT just doesn't make sense a lot of the time. It's not like the original series were perfect when it comes to inconsistencies, but I remember having complaints about GT's logic roughly every other episode and the podcast brought back several memories in that regard. I do think they tried, but realized about halfway through that they needed to capitalize on nostalgia more, which at least gave the show a better ending than Z had.

As for the music, I like the opening theme, the endings (<3 Zard) and the variations on the opening theme, but other than that there are only a few memorable tracks. The art style is also not what I'd prefer, but this has more to do with it being a departure from what I know than that it's bad on its own. I don't mind the show being all about Goku though, that's not so different from how it was till mid-Z and most, if not all, other characters wouldn't really work as a replacement for prolonged periods of time. Their treatment of old characters is generally a mixed bag for me, but they did get Goku right all the way through.

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Re: Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:40 pm

Y'know, listening to this episode really made me wish y'all would've tried beginning with Dragon Ball first. I guess the episode count might seem daunting, but re-watching the series lately I find it really easy to just sit back and enjoy every second of it. Oh well, at least the GT review is turning out fun.

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Re: Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:12 pm

JulieYBM wrote:Y'know, listening to this episode really made me wish y'all would've tried beginning with Dragon Ball first. I guess the episode count might seem daunting, but re-watching the series lately I find it really easy to just sit back and enjoy every second of it. Oh well, at least the GT review is turning out fun.
But... we *did* start with DragonBall. We read the entirety of the entire series of entiretiness in manga entiresome.

I get that you're talking about an overall "Anime" Review of Awesomeness, but... that's... well, that just wouldn't be feasible in the long run, methinks.
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Re: Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

Post by Super Vejito » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:34 pm

It would mostly be redundant at this point and throughout the years you guys have touched on a lot of the filler. Force feeding Jeff all movies in one long marathon could turn out fun though. :twisted:

I do share JulieYBM's opinion that the original DB anime is amazing upon rewatching it (I just started doing that too) and it's actually better than I remembered.

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Re: Episode #0279 (27 November 2011)

Post by Tanooki Kuribo » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:19 am

If Dragon Ball GT was a sandwich, I'd hate the meat in the middle. The bread is good though.

Yes, I'm talking about the first few episodes and the last few episode. Those seems to be the only real episodes in DBGT I can watch and enjoy.

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