Episode #0014 (19 February 2006)

Varo · Post by **Varo** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:50 am

I thoroughly enjoyed the topic for this episode. I had already heard a little about some of the different dialects but I wasn’t aware of Trunk’s “politeness” and the subtle difference between Chi Chi (a princess no less) and Goku’s speech.

Also I have to add, it’s been quite fun watching you get progressively looser and looser as the podcast goes on.

Goten88gt · Post by **Goten88gt** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:48 am

Outstanding Podcast Episode. I found the introduction to the podcast very exciting(Mike the news reporter). Thank you for answering my email question on the podcast. I didn't know that Jump SuperStars had other characters from not so popular mangas. I'll take your advice Mike, I'll buy it online.

I agree with what you guys said about Trunk's speech. Thanks for the lesson on japanese formal and informal speaking.

Now about Freeza's speech, unfortunatley I watched the dubbed version, so I was forced to like Frieza's dubbed voice. However, I am proud to say that I watch the japanese version only. I love it when Freeza gets mad, and loses his suave pronuciations.

I think that my favorite fight scene would have to be Gokuu VS Vegeta, the Saiya-jin Saga. I just love how Vegeta never loses during his fight with Gokuu. You have to give it up to Gokuu though, he endured a lot of pain.

Gokuu VS Piccolo was amazing to watch. I strongly agree that this fight was the bloodest. If you think about the fight compared to the past fights in DragonBall, you can see a major increase with the violence. I think the violence was indicating that DBZ will be depicted like the final battle in DragonBall.

I am looking forward to the next episode, and I'll be sure to send you guys more mail.

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:57 pm

I thought there was also some legal issues with Jump Superstars, not just a "lack of interest" situation. Different companies having the rights to different series over here. Well, I own it, so I don't really mind.

Favorite fight? In all of DB? You answered such a thing pretty easily. Not that they weren't great answers.

I think I'd have to break it up into multiple categories. Majin Vegeta's battle with one of Babidi's lackeys was probably the best example of a one sided fight in the entire series. And then, yeah, you've got the Can Can fight.

There's one in my mind... I think it was Yamcha and Tenshinhan in the 22nd Budokai, but I don't know for sure. It was definitely one of my favorites. I'd love to see a video clip or something.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:00 pm

My favourite fight: Goku vs the fish.

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:15 pm

It's funny, because that's the opposite of the point I was trying to make I think the Japanese voice is nice and sweet (except for when he's pissed), and the English voice (as much as I like it overall), is too angry. As we pointed out in the topic, nuances like that are lost in the transition to the English language.

Are you serious? There has never been a moment where I would describe Dub Trunks as mean sounding...angry yes but he never sounds mean. To me the very first episode we ever see JP Trunks in he sounds mean, when fighting Freeza. IDK why but his voice doesn't suit Trunks IMO.

Oh, on a side note, you were all saying which character had the most character development......if we're coutning fillers, I'll say Dabura

B-kun · Post by **B-kun** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:44 pm

Great Saiyaman wrote: Are you serious? There has never been a moment where I would describe Dub Trunks as mean sounding...angry yes but he never sounds mean. To me the very first episode we ever see JP Trunks in he sounds mean, when fighting Freeza. IDK why but his voice doesn't suit Trunks IMO.

... Well, he was fighting Freeza. I certainly wouldn't be polite to someone like him either. He's very polite to Goku and the others, however.

Kirbopher · Post by **Kirbopher** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:25 pm

Well despite him sounding kinda gruff in the english version in general, they DID make him sound more confident and sorta mean in the beginning of the Trunks saga when he fights Freeza, and then he begins to sound more normal (and actually pretty dramatic too. Yay for Eric Vale

) from there on out, even when they fight against the Androids later.

Meri · Post by **Meri** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:28 pm

Kirbopher wrote:Well despite him sounding kinda gruff in the english version in general, they DID make him sound more confident and sorta mean in the beginning of the Trunks saga when he fights Freeza, and then he begins to sound more normal (and actually pretty dramatic too. Yay for Eric Vale ) from there on out, even when they fight against the Androids later.

Agreed, completely. Trunks does start off kind of rough around the edges, but he somewhat "calms down a bit." I'll just chalk it up to Eric getting used to the character.

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:41 am

*falls down Anime style* Wait, are you guys trying to pull my leg or something. In JP Trunks sounds like a jerk all the time. In FUNi, he simply sounds confident.

Kirbopher · Post by **Kirbopher** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:32 am

Meri wrote:
Kirbopher wrote:Well despite him sounding kinda gruff in the english version in general, they DID make him sound more confident and sorta mean in the beginning of the Trunks saga when he fights Freeza, and then he begins to sound more normal (and actually pretty dramatic too. Yay for Eric Vale ) from there on out, even when they fight against the Androids later.
Agreed, completely. Trunks does start off kind of rough around the edges, but he somewhat "calms down a bit." I'll just chalk it up to Eric getting used to the character.

Yeah, that's probably more likely XD; Though it could be the standard case. Like Mike pointed out a few episodes earlier, Trunks goes very quickly to the "No! I can't fight the Androids, I know I suck!" mentality, so there wouldn't've been much of a reason to make him continually sound confident.

BTW, what was meeting him like? I think it's pretty surprising (and cool) that he just out of the blue asked you guys to come meet up with him in real life like that. Did you guys talk to him beforehand a few times that constituted the meeting? o.o

Post by **VegettoEX** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:18 am

Great Saiyaman wrote:*falls down Anime style* Wait, are you guys trying to pull my leg or something. In JP Trunks sounds like a jerk all the time. In FUNi, he simply sounds confident.

This isn't intended to be rude, but coming from someone who can honestly and truthfully say it without inherently trying to sound pompous... this is just the honest, blunt truth... you don't know what you're talking about, if this is what your observations are.

I know you're a dub fan, and you probably don't have the exposure to the Japanese language and version of the show that's being discussed, or at least enough exposure to make this kind of a judgement call on it.

Trunks sounds like a badass... when he's talking to Freeza, sometimes to Cell, and when he's able to finally kill the Jinzoningen. That's it. *He doesn't have the capacity* to talk that way to pretty much any other character in the show. It's just impossible. This stems from both his delivery and the actual words and conjugations that come out of his mouth.

He's otherwise extremely polite, extremely humble, stutters from time to time, has a very soft-sounding voice, etc. Compare this to Eric's portrayal of the character, which (in *any* given context, regardless of who he is speaking to) has a raspier, very forced sound (I *know* it's forced, both from just common-sense listening and actually watching him do the voice), the language differences which we discussed on the show, etc. Even after he "calms down", the voice is so forced, that it continues to come across as slightly-arrogant and snotty.

This isn't even much of an opinion-piece... it's just how the characters and voices *are*.

So I'm probably looking like a total dick, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Meri · Post by **Meri** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:55 am

Kirbopher wrote:BTW, what was meeting him like? I think it's pretty surprising (and cool) that he just out of the blue asked you guys to come meet up with him in real life like that. Did you guys talk to him beforehand a few times that constituted the meeting? o.o

Rather than go into a long-winded discussion:

http://www.templeotrunks.com/misc/featu ... _trip.html

And we did talk a few times prior to the meeting, but we mostly talked to just set up the meeting. I think he emailed me about it first.

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:33 am

Very impressive podcast, guys. I loved the discussion you brought up on the manner of speech in the Japanese version, it made things more clear to me about the talking styles of characters like Freeza and Trunks. Thanks for answering my question on the character development as well, I'm trying to get a mic so I can actually email a sound byte of myself asking a podcast question like others have been doing. Congrats on the 3 month run, and I hope to see an episode topic on the DBZ game story modes in the future.

kinoko · Post by **kinoko** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:12 pm

Mmh, very much in love with this episode. It was wonderful to listen to you all discuss the language differences topic, one that I'd like to see discussed more often in comparing the Japanese versions of anime with the English translations. ^^ The Japanese language is so complex and interesting with its many nuances and honorifics and humble patterns of speech. Ugh, heavenly... and now I think I've fallen in love with Freeza's Japanese voice.... ^^;;

So... I have a question pertaining the patterns of speech used in Dragon Ball. Does Kuririn use the personal pronoun 'boku' or 'ore'? I thought I've seen him use both in the manga... but...

And I have another Tenshinhan question (relating to speech, so it's actually relevant! XD) that I might ask in an e-mail if Vegetto Ex doesn't mind. (um, this is the Kinoko from the other e-mail ... +cough+ I'm looking forward to those questions being answered in a future podcast episode! ^_____^)

Thank you!

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:26 pm

EX-

Are you crazy? The only time Trunks has ever sounded arrogant in the dub to me is when he's USSJ fighting Cell. I don't know why you have this arrogant impression of him. Given I am a dubbie I do not watch the JP Anime much but I have heard his JP voice enough (calm, fighting, & mad) to know that he doesn't have a voice in which suits that character of Trunks. We all know that Trunks is a nice innocent (almost) guy. The JP portrayal of him gives him a voice, like he always sounds pissed off. In the dub, yes he does have a raspier voice, but he never sounds pissed off or annoyed really like in JP. With all due respect I think you only think of JP like that because your just as bias towards it as I am towards the dub.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:54 pm

Do I come across as crazy?

Being that I've seen the entirety of DBZ in Japanese (over... and over... and over...) and have a (limited) education and familiarity with the language, and have seen virtually all of the Trunks dubbed stuff (including being in-person as Eric performed the character's voice, both in totally serious in-character ways and amusing ways), I like to think that I've got an educated, authoritative, and significant thing to say about the voices.

You're obviously coming from a background where you haven't seen enough of the Japanese version to really say for sure what your feelings would be, nevermind the facts about it. But you've admitted that

.

To counter that, yes, I'm very biased towards Takeshi Kusao. He's simply the only voices of Trunks to me, being that I heard him first and had a ridiculous familiarity with him by the time Eric came along. That doesn't mean I dislike Eric, and it doesn't mean I dislike how he plays the character. Quite the opposite. I think he's a very decent voice actor (and does so better in other roles where he doesn't force it so much), and I can understand why he was told to act the way he does.

That doesn't change the fact that he is genuinely forcing the voice out, and it's a different character than it is in the original. Note the word "different"... not "bad"... we're talking about differences, here

.

(OK, with dub Freeza we're talking "bad" ...

)

What the Hell was I saying? There was, like, an hour that passed between when I started this post and when I'm finishing it. Distracted by a phone call. I have no idea what I was talking about. x_X;;

Long story short, I don't think you've quite got the knowledge to speak about the JP voice, though I can understand where you're coming from on Eric's voice. Maybe what little you've seen has just been the few cocky moments of Trunks, but like I said earlier, it's absolutely inherently impossible for Trunks to speak that way in general, nevermind to other characters. I think that's the whole thing about this; for this particular instance and example, there's really not much of "opinion" to come in... it's just cold, hard fact.

Kirbopher · Post by **Kirbopher** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:20 am

VegettoEX wrote:That doesn't change the fact that he is genuinely forcing the voice out, and it's a different character than it is in the original. Note the word "different"... not "bad"... we're talking about differences, here

Exactly. You even said yourself in 0010 that Brian Drummond, despite not doing Vegeta's voice the same way Ryo Horikawa did, made his own take that could still go for the character, which is another good example.

Mike McFarland (Roshi/Yajirobe/Baby and one of the Directors) says that FUNimation does voice auditions for their characters by picture, not to video or to comparison of the original Japanese voice. For DBZ, like Meri mentioned, was targeted at the time to a younger audience, and kids shows tend to have a lot of more character-based voices as opposed to just using a natural voice like some more serious shows.

The sad thing that I see, is that whenever any EXTREME purists hear a dub version of a voice and it isn't EXACTLY the same as how the character's voice is in the original Japanese version, they go balistic, and barely accept it as simply a different interpretation of the character. One big example would be Vic Mignogna voicing Ed Elric on FMA, where as in the Japanese version he was played by a woman, which typically most main characters are, even if they're males. Or another example would be Suzume/Suzy from Zatch Bell, where they made her a bit more hyper and energetic sounding as opposed to her Japanese counterpart, which was a bit more softer and less loud.

But then again, most of it DOES stem from bias. I think this prettymuch sums it up:

VegettoEX wrote:There are tons of "why" answers you can get into, but it's all about personal preferences, your level of exposure to which version, your timespan of exposures, etc. What you "like" is based on a whole lot of different variables, half of which you might not even consciously be aware of to begin with.

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:33 am

there's really not much of "opinion" to come in... it's just cold, hard fact.

So bassically what I get from that post of your is that right there. You believe that voices are facts just becase you know Japaneese? You couldn't be more wrong. I've seen enough of the whole era that Trunks was around in JP, as I've said, I've seen him calm, angry, & fighting all in JP. The same of course goes for the dub. Given I have not seen every episode in JP of the whole Trunks era, bit I have seen enough. EX, I'm not trying to insult you here, but this is why a lot of people always & still do hate you. You believe something on the topic of a complete opinion to be a fact when it's simply not & never will be. You cannot say that because someone is forcing a voice that means that they are not better at the voice or better suiting & that is a fact. That's not how it works.

I really wish you would just read a scene from the Manga where he is calm, another where he is pissed & another where he is fighting. Then watch the exact same scenes in JP & then again in the dub. I've acctually did this a few hours ago to try & see your point of view....I simply just do not see where you are coming from.

But please do not say that I don't know what I am talking about. I do know what I am talking about, just because I don't agree with your opinion doen't mean I don't know what I am talking about. I am an avid Trunks fan, I should know which voice is better suiting. Which is why I am so surprised that Meri agrees with you.[/i]

ShadowAssailantX · Post by **ShadowAssailantX** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:51 am

Great Saiyaman wrote:But please do not say that I don't know what I am talking about. I do know what I am talking about. I am an avid Trunks fan, I should know which voice is better suiting.[/i]

Good God, Please Shut Up

And on another note...

VegettoEX wrote:Do I come across as crazy?

http://www.savefile.com/files3.php?fid=8352881

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:18 am

Who the fuck do you think you are waltzing in here & giving me commands like I am some sort of dog. I'm entitled to my opinions just as much as you are.

Kanzenshuu

Episode #0014 (19 February 2006)

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