Episode #0070 (25 March 2007)

[VegettoEX]

Episode #0070 (download MP3)
59:42; 64 kbps, mono; 27.3 MB

Episode #0070! VegettoEX, Meri, and Julian discuss today's fans with regards to the series and the way they view it (both the Japanese version and the English version, in relation to their [dis]placement)... the way FUNimation treats the property (is it "nostalgia" or "new hotness"?)... and more. Our conversation touches upon ideas that cross generations of fans, and moves into an interesting Q&A e-mail session with quite the amusing "fan". Referenced sites:

• Haruko Momoi's "Famison 8-bit momo-i" CD Website
• "DragonBall Inconsistencies" Video 1 @ YouTube

Go ahead and grab it. Big thanks to godofchaos for hosting the sexually-stimulating *seventy* episodes, now.

While it may have initially been conceived as an "old-'n-cranky" type of discussion, it turned pretty interesting with all sorts of great theories and observations. I don't have a problem saying that I felt it was one of the most engaging and enthralling discussions we've ever had on the podcast! Well, from my perspective, anyway... . Hopefully you'll feel the same way. I definitely had a great time recording it with Meri and Julian, and it's these types of discussions I wish I could have (and listen to!) more often...

w0rd.

[Chuquita]

It's a day early. :3 Sort of.

I may listen to this tonight instead of tomorrow as I have much homework to get done tomorrow.


By the way that 8-bit music site was awesome. Very nostalgic.

[Tanooki Kuribo]

That 8-bit music thing is awesome, I want that CD!

Edit: Hmm, real interesting topic.

[Super Sonic]

Nice podcast. I admit I pronounced Naruto's name wrong before seeing the anime. Then I learned. Interestingly enough I always got Sasuke's name right. And like the guys who were talking earlier, I can't picture anyone else other than Maile Flanagan doing his voice.

With talk of Luffy I can now think if Funimation had gotten One Piece, I can picture Mr. Strait doing his happy Major Hughes voice for him.

[TripleRach]

Interesting topic, especially as another cranky, older type fan.

In recent years, I've noticed similar animosity towards the Japanese version, and it's just been so baffling to me. But after listening, I've suddenly realized why that probably is. When I was first getting into the series, it was via FUNimation's dub. As I became more interested, I sought out the DBZ internet community...

Back then, only a small portion of the series had been dubbed, and Viz had only released a handful of manga volumes. So with most of the series just not available in English yet, people had to seek out the Japanese version to experience the rest of the series. Plus, thanks to sites like DBZ Uncensored, it was widely known that the dub episodes were heavily edited and had major dialogue and story alterations. People also became interested in the original versions so that they could (as much as I hate to use this phrase) see the series the way it was meant to be seen.

Fast forward a few years, and almost all of the big, old school sites had shut down. Meanwhile, most of the series had been dubbed, and released on uncut DVDs. So in this state, people no longer needed to seek out fansubs or whatever to see the series uncut, or see unreleased material. The newer DBZ internet community evolved from this state. The original Japanese version just became a difference in voices, music, and dialogue. This newer generation never had much reason to be bitter about the dub, and also just never had much reason to expose themselves to the original at all. So they became used to and satisfied with their fully dubbed series.

That's my theory, anyway. (...Well, at least I think it's mine. I hope I'm not subconsciously paraphrasing something from the podcast that I don't remember.) But even if that's why the newer generation isn't as interested in the Japanese version and its related terminology, I still can't explain why some of these young whippersnappers get so defensive and angry whenever the slightest things related to it are mentioned.

[Lavender Saiyan]

*Commenting as I listen*

*sigh* These are the jackass people who give Dubbies like myself a bad name.

Honestly, I believe Dubbies react the way they do sometimes is because they feel threatened. I know I used to, before I began reading Manga. Dubbies are constantly bashed and out down that they get defensive at every little thing.

[tarrin4ever]

I think I can help make sense of Anime Freak's email despite its err... unique format.

From my guess he's a denizen of either IMDb or equivalent forum where debates about transformations, powerlevel lists (ugh), and the like are commonplace. Also common in those forums are people insulting, SHOUTING, and tipyng so fest dey dun care aboot spehling.

Anyway, Dranet was a site that kept an archive of just about every chapter of Dragonball. It's domain name wasn't renewed (or the server didn't get paid or something, I have no idea how that all works) and was shut down.

This site became a source of "evidence" that users of said forums cited to backup their opinions, ex. WHOZ DA STRUNGEST BOO TRANSFURN?

One day, someone made a note to point out (the obvious) that practically all the chapters were fanslated (fan-translated, is this a common name or did I just make it up?) And there was much crying and troll yelling to be had, blah blah blah.

In a nutshell, this individual is a sample of DBZ fans of the lowest of lows, spawned from the congealing mass of internet wank and senseless.... they're just dumb.

[NeverRamza]

So many intelligent and well-placed fuck-yous... I enjoyed it.

[ChibiKenji]

I dunno about America, but those "basic reading skills required to fully enjoy game" notes on boxes have been around for ages here in Australia.

[Mystic Jack]

Hmmm, interesting podcast all in all.

The inner fanboy in me truly weeps when I see ignorance of dubbies and the like, I really can't help it, though I should be more permissible. Checking out those comments on youtube really disgust me, I mean come on, it's utterly ridiculous.

[VegettoEX]

< snip Rach's comments >

Dammit, I think that's exactly where I was heading when I brought up the "far-removed" idea with respect to how old the show is, and I just never actually GOT THERE with my train of thought . Thank you for seeing where I was heading before my train took a massive detour ^^.

That's definitely something I whole-heartedly agree with.

[nathantheguitarist]

I enjoyed this topic very much! It's a sad thing to see how most Dragonball fans react to stuff, but it then reminded me of how much this place rocks.

Hell yes for another Street Fighter plug!


And by the way, what does that Japanese outro mean in English?

[SaiyaJedi]

Anyway, Dranet was a site that kept an archive of just about every chapter of Dragonball. It's domain name wasn't renewed (or the server didn't get paid or something, I have no idea how that all works) and was shut down.

Ah, so that's what it was. The writer of the email wrote "Dragnet," so I wasn't sure what he was on about. Made me think of "just the facts, ma'am," which made me giggle, but Dragnet really doesn't have much bearing on DB.

Of course, that just makes them even more ignorant, because why the hell would we cite scanlations when I can just read the Japanese directly?

[VegettoEX]

Of course, that just makes them even more ignorant, because why the hell would we cite scanlations when I can just read the Japanese directly?

Furthermore, if we actually *do* even cite something verbatim from the Viz translation, we always explain that upfront and give our take on that particular translation .

I think a Dragnet translation of the series would clearly be the superior one, though.

[mysteriousdbzgt]

Good podcast. Now i know how to properly pronounce the words anime and manga. In the beginning, when i first found out that in the japanese dub goku's voice was done by a woman, i was a bit shocked but it didn't effect me that much. Now, i like the thought that the main character is voiced by a woman. I guess, if your a big fan of the english dub then it would become a bit of a shock to you. I like both of the dubs, so i can't complain... Keep up the good work.

[Maphisto86]

Dragnet

Wow... I feel old before my time. I think I was one of the few who picked up the many references Julian was joking about from that old, old show. I was wondering if that guy meant Dranet. Thanks for clearing that up tarrin4ever.

Anyway, EXCELLENT podcast as usual . Where to start.... well I will just give my two cents on the subject matter rather than try to cite the entire podcast all over again (I listened to it last night.... late last night *yawn*). Well for one thing I was at first surprised that there would even be an angry response to the video you posted. Then again I remembered it was the Youtube community, which is like the world. It's filled with some decent people who are smart and then the rest who are ignorant assholes who cannot spell. I bet half of them have never visited this site .

I was impressed by the down to earth, serious (ok, sort of) discussion you (Mike, Meri & Julian) had about the animosity that exists between groups of Dragonball fans. I am not sure if it is a xenophobic attitude towards anything Japanese as that would seem odd coming from a fan of something that obviously has oriental influences. I mean any layman can see that Dragonball is not based on western mythology. Then again I have heard of at least one Dragonball fan who does not find the Japanese language appealing. So you never know...

I think it is what Rach here has already said all too well... there is a younger generation now that is at the center of western Dragonball fandom that knows nothing but the dub. I am a fan who belongs in that limbo stage where Dragonball Z was just being released with the Ocean cast dubbing the Saiyan saga but the younger fans knew nothing but that. I remember doing the same thing... going online and researching the rest of the series and finding out all sorts of stuff including seeing clips of the sub version of the show with the original voice cast. The target audience for FUNImation probably didn't though I cannot speak for a generation of fans.

Anyway I don't think I can shed any more light on the subject ...although I feel like I am just repeating peoples comments. So I will conclude by saying that this was a good podcast. This episode highlights how down to earth the podcast is.

P.S. Thank's Mike for the signature idea... I had to write it down... priceless.

[sangofe]

A-A NINGEN SUCKER! A-A NINGEN FUCKER!!

Yeah, death note rules

[DaemonCorps]

Well, I just finished the episode, and I've gotta say that I'm glad I found daizex.com before most of the other sites (not just DB-related).

I got into the series at the start of the Great Saiyaman Saga, so I guess you'd think that I was part of this kind of awkward misspelling group of misfit DBZ fans, but well... I'm not (or at least I hope I'm not). I think the big difference for me would be that I was always aware of the Japanese version and knew that that version was out first, so it would make sense for people going between stuff like "Saiyan" and "Saiyajin."

As for people's beef with the whole Goku sounding like a woman thing going down, I never really found that a major reason for hating the JP version, either. Then again, this is probably because I know a good number of people who sound like you think they shouldn't. And yeah, the crazed Naruto fans who like the JP version over the dub just makes this case even stranger, since I think of them as being in the same group of fans who would complain about Goku's voice (dubbie or not). Even stranger is that people aren't really irked by Naruto's older voice done after the time skip.

My guess is that I live in California where I rarely see the kind of elitist ignorant thinking outside of the internet and I tend to stay out of huge arguments anyways, especially on the internet, so I'm more accepting of stuff as opposed to making my own bastardized pronunciations of things. I was even willing to change my pronunciations of "manga" and "Sasuke" after learning that I was pronouncing wrong.

ugh... I really don't get flaming or anything remotely similar to that.

EDIT: (does a quick Google search) So that's what's being said in the new DN OP! Also, I always wondered why people in the series would sneeze randomly. I remember a while back my mom told me that whenever you bite your tongue, someone's talking about you. I guess that's the kind of stuff that no one else would get unless there would be some kind of asterisk explanation at the top of the screen like fansubs sometimes do.

[caejones]

Best. Podcast. Ever.
I think this is the closest anyone will ever come to understanding the nature of poorly-written flame-thursty fanboys of any kind. This must be archived in the Library of ... not my trademark.
I like people that make sense. Which is probably why this is the only forum of the fandom type I visit more than once. Ur... this doesn't count....

As a sidenote... I was introduced to Japanese voices through Super butotan3 (sp?) for the SNES/SuperFamicon. I couldn't make sense of the character select screen art at first, and for some reason didn't notice the giant Goku in the portrait spot... but anyway, it was one of those things that's like, "That sounds like Dende... but it is clearly an adult. Just not a deep 'Imma gonna kick your ass' manly voice...". It just sounded Japanese to me, I guess... the woman-ness really didn't become obvious until playing as SSJ3Goku in UB22. Then again everyone I've spoken to personally about the voice differences just seems to think that the dub Gohan and Goku are better, but they can still enjoy the japanese version... meh, I guess it really depends what side of the character you are most in tune with. So really, I think each voice (Well, most of them anyway) in the various versions of the show I've heard has something to offer... and it's really just a different window into the same character. Ur, most of the time.
Holycrap, that turned into a rant. Good thing it ends here, otherwise I'd try to use voiceactors' names that I don't know how to spell...

[edit]. Wouldn't you know the sentence about poorly written things had a glaring typo. I should really write in notepad before posting.[/edit]

[Kirbopher]

EXCELLENT discussion. My god, this is one of those episodes where I wish AnimeNEXT can't get here any faster. I SO wish I could join in on one of these discussions to add my two cents...but anyway.

The stories you guys mentioned, and all of the things you spoke about made me feel REALLY proud of the type of anime fan I am. While at the basic structure, I'm a dub fan at heart. I enjoy watching anime series in my naive language, I'm a HUGE fan of dub voice actors (as anyone who knows me personally is aware), and I don't mind waiting until a show comes out over here for me to be able to see it. However, this does NOT instantly mean that I automatically hate the original Japanese version of the same show I'm watching. I won't typically WATCH its original language version when I start getting into a series (except for in certain cases like One Piece, though that's a given), but there'll be certain points when I'm watching a DVD and I go "Hm, I wonder what that was supposed to be like in the Japanese version..." *switches the language and watches the scene over again, then goes back to English*.

The first time I ever heard Goku in Japanese was when I saw the last two episodes of GT YEARS before it came out here. It threw me for a loop at first, but I ended up accepting it pretty quickly. Hell, it ended up having me expect Yugi to be played by a girl in the Japanese version of Yu-Gi-Oh!, and also helped me not think it was weird that Luffy sounded like girl when I saw that quick clip of him speaking in Japanese in your "Real AF Commercial". Hell, I have to end up correcting people at my school and online who say "Nuh-roo-doh" and such ALL the time. At the same time though, as a really good example, I do not know of a SINGLE person who calls "Ash Ketchum" from Pokemon, "Satoshi" from his original Japanese name.

In any case, this one will definitely go on to be one of my favorites. Looking forward to Volume 3 next week. Good luck!