Episode #0115 (10 February 2008)

We cover anything and everything Dragon Ball in hopes of enlightening... and a little bit of entertaining. Hosted every week by the Kanzenshuu staff and regular special guests from the professional and fandom communities. Your first, best, last, and only Dragon Ball podcast!

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
VegettoEX
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 16184
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Episode #0115 (10 February 2008)

Post by VegettoEX » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:49 am

Episode #0115 (download MP3)
63:28; 64 kbps, mono; 29.0 MB

Episode #0115! VegettoEX, Meri, and Julian discuss the state of the domestic anime industry as it specifically relates to FUNimation and "DragonBall". Where did this company come from, and how exactly did they manage to exploit one single series to allow themselves to become number one in the industry? Julian's DBZ ABCs return in Japanese form, February's got some releases, and some fun e-mails round out the episode. Referenced sites:
Go ahead and grab it. Big thanks to godofchaos for hosting the fantascarino *one-hundred-fifteen* episodes, now.

w00t... the internet lives, this week! There was much rejoicing. We took a step back away from the original source material for a little bit to take a look at the industry as a whole, but put specific focus on FUNimation and DB. It really is extraordinary to think about where this little company came from, and how they've essentially taken the industry as their own. Listen in for some good thoughts, and please provide back some even better thoughts!

w0rd.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager, etc... |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::

User avatar
Castor Troy
I Live Here
Posts: 2134
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:37 pm
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Contact:

Post by Castor Troy » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:16 am

Gen's lost weight... :shock:

User avatar
Herms
Kanzenshuu Admin Emeritus
Posts: 10550
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:40 pm
Location: Jupiter
Contact:

Post by Herms » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:32 am

This podcast is rather well timed for me, because for rather complicated and bizarre reasons I'm going to be giving a 50 minute presentation on Monday over Japanese and American popular culture since the year 2000, and I was wanting to talk a bit about the current rather bleak state of the American anime industry. So thanks for this week's topic and the links to the other podcasts!

So how many people sent you e-mails asking for Julian to do the Japanese alphabet thing? I'm curious because in both this episode and the last one you made a point about saying how big the response was.

User avatar
DaemonCorps
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1763
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:38 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Post by DaemonCorps » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:10 pm

iTunes doesn't seem to have the episode (I subscribe to the podcast, but the new episode won't even show up if I hit the "Refresh" button).

I guess I'll just listen through the above link until stuff gets fixed.
10-30 minutes have most likely passed between my clicking to comment and actually posting. Curse my habit of thinking how to word my posts for too long!
BLOG | twitter | webcomic | tumblr | Fandom Post

User avatar
Dogasu
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 198
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:27 am
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Contact:

Post by Dogasu » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:28 pm

I, too, find this to be well-timed because I am currently discussing this very topic on the Pokemon forum I go to.

One thing I've noticed about the "decline of the industry" is that nobody ever, ever points their fingers at the fans as being the problem. No one ever considers that fans these days are impatient, greedy, and are killing the industry not buying the DVD's. Instead, they point their fingers at the companies and start making lists of how it's all their fault and what they need to do in order to get through this.

Anyway, I look forward to your fansub discussion whenever that shows up.[/b]
Webmaster of Dogasu's Backpack. Last updated on May 30th, 2018

User avatar
El Diabeetus
I Live Here
Posts: 2135
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:07 pm
Location: Ohio

Post by El Diabeetus » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:36 pm

Somewhat true, Sometimes It's the Fan's fault, In my opinion for the Decline, but with Geneon that was different some of the series they picked up were kinda oooh... and not great as you guys said.

Julian, Good job with the Japanese DBZ ABC's, that was a nice brief detailed history on Akira Toriyama. Nice job.

Well can't wait till next podcast, Oh I sent you guys an email.
Last edited by El Diabeetus on Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Herms
Kanzenshuu Admin Emeritus
Posts: 10550
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:40 pm
Location: Jupiter
Contact:

Post by Herms » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:49 pm

Dogasu wrote:One thing I've noticed about the "decline of the industry" is that nobody ever, ever points their fingers at the fans as being the problem. No one ever considers that fans these days are impatient, greedy, and are killing the industry not buying the DVD's. Instead, they point their fingers at the companies and start making lists of how it's all their fault and what they need to do in order to get through this.
That factor actually did get discussed in the Geek Nights episode that is listed in the show notes, although the Geek Nights guys ultimately didn't think that fans were too much to blame. I'm not sure I really agree with them though.

User avatar
desirecampbell
Moderator
Posts: 4291
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Post by desirecampbell » Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:08 pm

Dogasu wrote:One thing I've noticed about the "decline of the industry" is that nobody ever, ever points their fingers at the fans as being the problem. No one ever considers that fans these days are impatient, greedy, and are killing the industry not buying the DVD's. Instead, they point their fingers at the companies and start making lists of how it's all their fault and what they need to do in order to get through this.
It's never the fans fault. I can't be. That's the way capitalism works. If your business model attracts no customers, it's not their fault, it's yours.

I, too, look forward to a fansub discussion.
Last edited by desirecampbell on Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
DaemonCorps
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1763
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:38 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Post by DaemonCorps » Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:52 pm

Lemme first say that I had no idea of this sudden decline in the anime industry. I was aware of the whole "media hating anime" thing but never really made much more of it than that.

Whew this is one of those episode where I've gotta listen to it a billion times over to get everything that you guys covered. All that "fiscal quarter" still goes over my head. But from the stuff I did catch, though, was pretty interesting stuff. I kinda wish you had the "non-DB-fan" cast there to give their own opinions on all this like they did in that fandom episode (episode 46).

While I don't watch adult swim, I do moderate a Death Note forum, which has recently been talking about how [as] really isn't treating their anime that well, continually changing their air times as they see fit. So far, I'm pretty sure it's the third time slot change for Death Note. As mentioned in the fandom episode, anime today has this weird stigma that the media gives it now and I really don't get where it comes from. I'd say that the media's connecting anime more with the idea of being a nerd, but the "nerd persona" is being shown in such a better light nowadays (Superbad and Juno are good examples of this). It's like they're saying "it's cool to be a nerd but it's another thing altogether to be an anime fan."

As for what Meri mentioned about wanting to watch your favorite anime on an actual TV even though you'll buy it anyway, I'm gonna say that I personally am of this train of thought because I want to be able to share my favorite series with other people and be able to get stuff like Death Note apparel on a visit to the mall. Sure, you can go the other way and say that you don't want that because you don't want your series to be so disgustingly mainstream (or as I say "herdie") but I think that's kind of a stupid reason. I mean what kind of fan would just drop something they love just because it got popular?

... and yeah, I'd like to hear what you guys have to say about fansubbing (and maybe even scanlating), too.
10-30 minutes have most likely passed between my clicking to comment and actually posting. Curse my habit of thinking how to word my posts for too long!
BLOG | twitter | webcomic | tumblr | Fandom Post

User avatar
Herms
Kanzenshuu Admin Emeritus
Posts: 10550
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:40 pm
Location: Jupiter
Contact:

Post by Herms » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:12 am

DaemonCorps wrote: As mentioned in the fandom episode, anime today has this weird stigma that the media gives it now and I really don't get where it comes from. I'd say that the media's connecting anime more with the idea of being a nerd, but the "nerd persona" is being shown in such a better light nowadays (Superbad and Juno are good examples of this). It's like they're saying "it's cool to be a nerd but it's another thing altogether to be an anime fan."
I wonder if that's a direct result of the traditional "nerd" stereotype becoming less and less stigmatized. They need someone new group to fill that role; basically someone new to make fun of. So the "anime nerd" is becoming a sort of nerd beyond nerd...a super nerd! Whereas an increasing number of people are happy to describe themselves as being nerds and geeks, with both those terms starting to become meaningless. I've noticed that lots of people now describe themselves as being an X-geek or a Y-nerd simply for being evenly moderately interested or knowledgable about X or Y. I find it a rather disturbing trend, but I'll have to save that rant for another time.

Brakus
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Post by Brakus » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:26 am

Normally I listen to your podcast on Mondays, on my way to work and coming home from work. However, when the description of this week's podcast came up on my RSS feed, I had to listen tonight (Sunday night).

Here are some running thoughts:

-- You still haven't gotten the Avenue Q soundtrack? :)

-- Julian's sounding sort of different this week (he sounds a little like Jeff), but at least he doesn't sound like he's underwater like a few weeks ago.

-- Oh - for those going to Katsucon this coming weekend, we're showing the Bardock and Trunks TV specials on Saturday morning starting at 7am, followed by the Doomrider Project around 8:45am-ish. Check it out if you're up early or still up on Saturday morning.

-- You might be exaggerating with "things going batshit out of control" but the anime industry stateside is indeed suffering.

I can point you to other podcasts like The Big Bald Broadcast and Anime Today which has also had interviews and discussions about the anime industry. For reference, check: Big Bald Broadcast Episode 77, and Anime Today Episodes 56-59. Especially with Anime Today - they've had interviews with Wendy Shimamura from VIZ, Chris Beveridge of animeondvd.com, Zac Bertschy of animenewsnetwork.com, and Gen Fukunaga of FUNimation.

-- Actually, Manga Entertainment was acquired by Starz Media a few years ago, and some of its titles have appeared on some Starz networks.

-- You brought up how FUNi was this really evil company back in 1999 with the edited DBZ episodes and all that. But they were on TV -- and they wanted this to be on TV no matter what they had to do to it, as long as the licensor (Toei) approved. FUNi did what they needed to do to get exposure to the masses, and it became a juggernaut.

-- Anime doesn't do as well as the comedies on [adult swim]; they do okay on weeknights, but Saturdays have been low viewership since Fullmetal Alchemist and Ghost in the Shell stopped airing new episodes. Toonami was rockin' back in the day, but now it's down to a measly 2 hours on Saturday nights with a really sad mascot. At least it's all Shounen Jump brand anime (Naruto, One Piece, DBZ)...

-- Williams Street -- the programmers behind Toonami and [adult swim] don't hate anime as much as their programming schedule would have you to believe. They loved FLCL and Fullmetal Alchemist, not to mention of course Cowboy Bebop, which had a long and illustrious run on [as].

-- Back to Dragonball, you have to admire the things FUNimation did for the show to get it on TV. And of course it led to lots of other things. I'm sure anime fans were shaking heads and wondering what in the world is up with FUNi when they announced they licensed Fruits Basket. Don't get me wrong, Fruits Basket is an AWESOME show, but back then, lots of people were very skeptical about FUNi - up until Fruits Basket, all FUNi had were shounen anime shows. Eventually Fruits Basket did very well for FUNi. What also helped was cross-promotion with TokyoPop. FUNi offered the first two episodes of Fruits Basket with a volume of the Tokyopop manga, and that got people to go buy the DVD. One feeds off of the other. To a degree it also works with Dragonball; the TV show gets people to buy the DVDs, which may get people to buy the manga, the video game, the tee-shirt, what have you. Cross-promotion works.

-- FUNi seems very adept at "re-inventing" their releases, and it isn't just with Dragonball. They've re-released a lot of older titles under their "Viridian Collection" at a nice lower price for the singles or a nice low-priced box set of the series (or partial seasons of series like with Fullmetal Alchemist).

-- FUNi did a major transformation, as you well noted. I'm pretty sure that their company has a lot of business savvy. They have done a lot of things right in the spirit of entrepreneurship.

-- Kodocha wasn't as successful as it could have been here because not enough people bought the DVDs when they came out. Case Closed wasn't as successful as it could have been because it couldn't get a decent timeslot due to the subject matter in the episodes. However, Case Closed has a nice following here in the states thanks to the TV showings; last year we showed "The Time Bomb Skyscraper" at Katsucon and it had the highest turnout of anything we showed in that video room. Case Closed is a very solid show for those that like crime dramas/mysteries. It just didn't get a good timeslot when it was on TV. I distinctly remember setting my TiVo to record Case Closed at 5:00am when it aired that early on [adult swim].

-- A lot of other issues have been covered elsewhere: season sets vs. singles, extras, combating piracy. As far as the argument that bootlegging/pirating/illegal BitTorrenting of anime is hurting the business, to a degree I do think that's true. There are some people who just won't pay for *any* anime, regardless of whether it's licensed or flawless. To this day there are sites that allow people to download MKV files of the DBZ Season Boxsets with two clicks of a mouse! Some sites even have the VOB files and such ready for download! I won't mention names, but if you search well enough, you'll find these renegade sites. And even if some of those sites shut down, others will show up within days.

FUNimation has been aggressive lately in shutting down BitTorrents of anime series they have licensed (and in some cases, some that they haven't licensed - see RomeoXJuliet). I would hope that FUNi can help shut down illegal downloading of stuff that's readily available and affordable in the States - ESPECIALLY the Dragon Ball series.

-- The bottom line - if it weren't for Dragon Ball, we wouldn't have the other stuff that FUNimation has today. Who knows, if they pick up some of the Geneon titles, perhaps a Fighting Spirit boxset could be in the near future!
Last edited by Brakus on Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
- J

"Come along and join the scene
Live your life like a rave machine"
-- Popnko

User avatar
Kirbopher
Regular
Posts: 670
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 2:10 am
Location: TOME
Contact:

Post by Kirbopher » Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:24 am

This has gone down as one of my favorite episodes, and I may listen to this one again down the line, as I do with the Scott Melzer and Steve Simmons episodes.

I'm making a bet, right here, right now: Come Summer, when the live-action movie comes closer and closer to being released, FUNimation will start releasing "remastered" boxsets of the original Dragonball, to coincide with the movie relating to that part of the series...EVEN if the DBZ sets aren't all released to the end of the Buu arc by then.

Brakus
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Post by Brakus » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:07 am

I'm making a bet, right here, right now: Come Summer, when the live-action movie comes closer and closer to being released, FUNimation will start releasing "remastered" boxsets of the original Dragonball, to coincide with the movie relating to that part of the series...
I think that Dragon Ball will eventually be re-relased in boxsets, but it'll be dependent on whether FUNimation can procure the first 13 episodes of the series from Trimark, who still has those 13 episodes. I'm not sure if it'll happen by this summer.
- J

"Come along and join the scene
Live your life like a rave machine"
-- Popnko

User avatar
Son Wukong
Regular
Posts: 630
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:25 pm
Location: Also Kame House

Post by Son Wukong » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:14 am

Yes, good episode. Very informative and confirming.

Brakus
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Post by Brakus » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:31 am

desirecampbell wrote:
Dogasu wrote:One thing I've noticed about the "decline of the industry" is that nobody ever, ever points their fingers at the fans as being the problem. No one ever considers that fans these days are impatient, greedy, and are killing the industry not buying the DVD's. Instead, they point their fingers at the companies and start making lists of how it's all their fault and what they need to do in order to get through this.
It's never the fans fault. I can't be. That's the way capitalism works. If your business model attracts no customers, it's not their fault, it's yours.
But these fans that are "impatient, greedy, and... not buying the DVD's" are mostly those that are acclimated to downloading their anime via BitTorrent and watching their anime via sites like YouTube and Veoh. Ask them to cough up money to buy their anime, and they'll walk. It doesn't matter to them whether a company's business model will work with the public or the price is so affordable that anyone can buy them; these otaku elitists will not pay for anything they can readily get for free. I am not, in any way, condoning their behavior; these specific fans are just one factor in the decline of the anime industry here in the States.

The business model should definitely not be giving away the entire product for free; if they wish to do any sampling, it should be for first episodes or single representative episodes of an anime series. This is why I always implore people to buy their anime - so that there'll be more of it down the line. With places like deepdiscountdvd.com and rightstuf.com having good prices on anime DVD's, anyone who can afford to buy anime online can do so.

However, I will not get into some fans not buying particular anime series because it isn't being released properly in R1; most of the time those releases had already been approved by the Japanese licensor(s). People here go on and on about the hack job FUNi has done to Dragon Ball; few have actually considered that maybe -- just maybe -- Bird Studio and/or Toei Animation required that the release was done in their particular way. It would not surprise me in the least that the reason we don't have Dragon Box footage for our Season Boxset re-releases is because Toei wanted it that way. Think about it, the Dragon Boxes were pre-order only and only made enough to fulfill the pre-orders; they didn't want the Japanese market to circumvent their own DVDs by getting the footage from another part of the world in a cheaper way.

Some business models suck because they're ineffective; others might suck because of things out of the company's control. Regardless, an adjustment to anime's current business model needs to happen over time. Maybe there's still time to save the anime industry... we'll find out eventually.
- J

"Come along and join the scene
Live your life like a rave machine"
-- Popnko

User avatar
desirecampbell
Moderator
Posts: 4291
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Post by desirecampbell » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:50 pm

Brakus wrote:But these fans that are "impatient, greedy, and... not buying the DVD's" are mostly those that are acclimated to downloading their anime via BitTorrent and watching their anime via sites like YouTube and Veoh. Ask them to cough up money to buy their anime, and they'll walk. It doesn't matter to them whether a company's business model will work with the public or the price is so affordable that anyone can buy them; these otaku elitists will not pay for anything they can readily get for free. I am not, in any way, condoning their behavior; these specific fans are just one factor in the decline of the anime industry here in the States.
Actually, their not a factor. It's the business plan of an anime distribution company (in fact, all companies) that they will be able to profit from the release of merchandise. The company produces X amount, assuming that enough of the product will sell to overcome the cost. They fail because there's not enough people who will buy the product. Period.

A smart company will look at the reasons why a product didn't sell and try to solve such problems - but it cannot be said that the fault is with the potential consumers, that's just retarded.
Brakus wrote:The business model should definitely not be giving away the entire product for free; if they wish to do any sampling, it should be for first episodes or single representative episodes of an anime series. This is why I always implore people to buy their anime - so that there'll be more of it down the line. With places like deepdiscountdvd.com and rightstuf.com having good prices on anime DVD's, anyone who can afford to buy anime online can do so.
I'm not sure what you mean here. 'Buying something encourages the producer to sell more, similar items' isn't a breakthrough idea.
Brakus wrote:However, I will not get into some fans not buying particular anime series because it isn't being released properly in R1; most of the time those releases had already been approved by the Japanese licensor(s). People here go on and on about the hack job FUNi has done to Dragon Ball; few have actually considered that maybe -- just maybe -- Bird Studio and/or Toei Animation required that the release was done in their particular way. It would not surprise me in the least that the reason we don't have Dragon Box footage for our Season Boxset re-releases is because Toei wanted it that way. Think about it, the Dragon Boxes were pre-order only and only made enough to fulfill the pre-orders; they didn't want the Japanese market to circumvent their own DVDs by getting the footage from another part of the world in a cheaper way.
Every time the idea of Dragon Box R1s come up, the fact that we don't know if Toei is even letting the DBox footage out of Japan also comes up. (Though we know that footage that's better than the season sets is available to Spain). And the reason there's so much animosity towards the new season sets is because of the extra things done to it that Toei wouldn't have stipulated - cropping the image, 'remastering' the footage to shit, English dub with most of the right original score - and the lies that Funi promoted, the fake grain reduction, the 'original Japanese masters' stuff, "the way it was meant tot be seen" - and the outright insults like "there's a nine year old born every minute".
Brakus wrote:Some business models suck because they're ineffective; others might suck because of things out of the company's control. Regardless, an adjustment to anime's current business model needs to happen over time. Maybe there's still time to save the anime industry... we'll find out eventually.
Yes, and no. A business model is either good or bad, somethings are out of the distributor's control but they must account for that before deciding on a business plan. If the business model was 'sell umbrellas' but they were selling them in the desert - it'll be the distributor's fault that they fail. Yes the lack of rain is something that's out of their control, but they should have accounted for it, and worked it into their plan.

Anime fans have access to free versions of almost every anime, both domestic releases and fansubs. The distribution company should be looking at ways to produce profitable releases despite these other options. There are many ways to do this, and the one Funi is using now is trying to circumvent traditional anime fans completely. They're releasing cheap boxsets with cropped-to-widescreen video to appeal to those that don't know better.

User avatar
Super Ghost Kamikaze
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1809
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:10 pm

Post by Super Ghost Kamikaze » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:17 pm

Bah. I just want decent, US season(heck, call them "sagas" if that makes you feel better) box sets with "good enough" DVD-quality picture and a good sub. Really. I don't need high definition or remastered crap that makes it look worse. Seriously. I have yet to buy a DBZ DVD, but have a strong DESIRE to have nice boxes on my shelf with all the episodes. I don't CARE too much about picture quality, this is the show that I watched on a crappy, tiny television when I was FIVE. I think I'll be fine with decent picture. I'm not fine with this re-cropping and shit. Just give me what I want, Funi. You've come so far. ;.;

Brakus
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Post by Brakus » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:47 pm

desirecampbell wrote: Actually, their not a factor. It's the business plan of an anime distribution company (in fact, all companies) that they will be able to profit from the release of merchandise. The company produces X amount, assuming that enough of the product will sell to overcome the cost. They fail because there's not enough people who will buy the product. Period.
And the reason why there's not enough people to buy the product is that a lot of anime fans won't pay for their anime, no matter what the cost. It doesn't matter if there's 2 or 2000 made; if these otaku elitists won't pay for something because they'd much rather get it illegally for free, then they will contribute to the decline of the anime industry. It *IS* but ONE factor in the decline, but it is NOT the ONLY factor. It's absurd to think that the fans absolve themselves of any responsibility for the decline of anime in the States (and Canada) just because a business company's plan sucks or not.

It's true in business that "those who fail to plan, plan to fail"; still, FUNi is in business because they're doing a lot of stuff right these days. FUNi puts out more stuff besides Dragonball, you know. They do good promotion for the other stuff.
A smart company will look at the reasons why a product didn't sell and try to solve such problems - but it cannot be said that the fault is with the potential consumers, that's just retarded.
I never said it was solely the consumers' fault; again, they are but one factor in the decline.
Every time the idea of Dragon Box R1s come up, the fact that we don't know if Toei is even letting the DBox footage out of Japan also comes up. (Though we know that footage that's better than the season sets is available to Spain).
If Toei wanted us to have the Dragon Box footage, don't you think we would have gotten it here in R1 already? Spain may have gotten Dragon Box footage, but Spain is an R2 country, and they use PAL instead of NTSC like in Japan. I don't know the exact reasons why Spain got it and we didn't, but when you think logically about it, there had to be some reason that Toei and company didn't let FUNimation have access to the Dragon Box footage. It could be just as simple as "Because we say so", but there's some reason. Otherwise, we would have already had Dragon Box footage in our re-releases a long time ago.
And the reason there's so much animosity towards the new season sets is because of the extra things done to it that Toei wouldn't have stipulated - cropping the image, 'remastering' the footage to shit, English dub with most of the right original score - and the lies that Funi promoted, the fake grain reduction, the 'original Japanese masters' stuff, "the way it was meant tot be seen" - and the outright insults like "there's a nine year old born every minute".
But Toei *did* approve the extra things done to the footage; otherwise it would have never made the light of day. Toei has every right to be protective of their property and they could have required that the remastering be done with the prints from scratch. Toei is the Japanese licensor, after all, and if they say that R1 cannot have Dragon Box footage for its R1 DVDs, then we here in R1 won't have it.

I'm not sure to what degree Toei's authority on the advertisement of the DBZ Season Boxsets; although beginning with Season 2, FUNi toned down on the hype of the widescreen, "the way it was meant to be seen" that was prevalent in the Season 1 boxset (and the Ultimate Uncuts, for that matter). "There's a 9-year-old born every minute" is a FUNi quote from one of FUNi's representatives, and when you think about it, for a show like Dragon Ball Z ***that is a kids' show at its heart***, it makes perfect sense to say that.
Anime fans have access to free versions of almost every anime, both domestic releases and fansubs. The distribution company should be looking at ways to produce profitable releases despite these other options. There are many ways to do this, and the one Funi is using now is trying to circumvent traditional anime fans completely. They're releasing cheap boxsets with cropped-to-widescreen video to appeal to those that don't know better.
By "those that don't know better" you basically mean "those that don't know of or could care less about Daizex.com, the remastering, or the other stuff that the same people repeat about time and again". In that respect they're very successful; their DBZ season box sets have sold very well for them. I myself have bought the Season Box Sets and will continue to do so. I know about the sets' flaws. I know it's not Dragon Box footage. But it has everything I need -- Japanese track, English track w/restored Japanese BGM, better footage than the prior DVD releases or even the old VHS releases, and of course you can't beat the price if you know where to look. I'm sold. I am happy to give FUNimation my money to get these Season Boxsets, as well as some of the other stuff FUNi puts out.

May I ask what do you suggest to FUNimation as to how to continue profiting from anime in the face of illegal distribution and broadcast?
- J

"Come along and join the scene
Live your life like a rave machine"
-- Popnko

User avatar
VegettoEX
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 16184
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:31 pm

To snipe it down without quoting and quoting-reply and reply-quoting-reply-quoting...

What a lot of us are getting at is that, yes, anime fans download their anime. It's illegal. That doesn't change the fact that the anime companies, if they want to stay in business, need to figure out a way to make money and have to cope with what's going on.

Exactly like the situation music companies have sunk themselves into.

Perhaps that solution is suing the fans and sending out C&D after C&D. Perhaps it's co-existing...? I've heard a lot said about it, but there's a reason why Viz isn't shutting down all the Naruto "fan"-subbers... they're making money for Viz hand-over-foot by exploiting the show so Viz can in turn exploit the merchandise. That's "coping" with the situation and finding an interesting business model, that's for damn sure.

Here's a short, but nice, article on TechDirt that gives some other nice analogies:
TechDirt wrote:With the entertainment industry's new push to force ISPs to somehow filter or block the transfer of any kind of copyrighted material, Charles Arthur is wondering why other industries facing massive business model challenges can't do the same thing? Newspapers, as has been well documented, are facing challenges from the likes of Craigslist and Google -- so why not have ISPs block those sites? And plenty of people are discussing news articles, even to the point of copying-and-pasting articles. Clearly, ISPs should be protecting the newspaper industry. But that's not all. Arthur points to some other industries that ISPs should help protect, such as auto mechanics and needlepoint pattern makers -- both of whom have faced market changes thanks to the internet. If only ISPs would block the sharing of information on how to fix your own car or how to create needlepoints -- both of those important industries could be protected. Or, as Arthur concludes, perhaps all of these industries could adapt to the changing market. But what are the chances of that happening?
Chew on that and let me know what you think.

(I'm not exactly advocating piracy; in fact, I'm quite against it...)
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager, etc... |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::

User avatar
desirecampbell
Moderator
Posts: 4291
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Post by desirecampbell » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:19 pm

I had a huge response to Brakus, but it was all -quote-quote broken up, and was making the page huge, so I'll just say this:


As a consumer, you have the right to spend your money on whatever you want. You don't even need to explain why you did or didn't buy something. Your money, your choice. The same right that allows you to buy the season sets also allows you to not buy the season sets.

Mike's post is right on the ball: consumers have no obligation to producers.

Post Reply