Episode #0152 (23 November 2008)

We cover anything and everything Dragon Ball in hopes of enlightening... and a little bit of entertaining. Hosted every week by the Kanzenshuu staff and regular special guests from the professional and fandom communities. Your first, best, last, and only Dragon Ball podcast!

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Dogasu
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Post by Dogasu » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:45 am

You know how Karin feeds Goku the senzu bean in front of the doctors? And how they see how these beans instantly made Goku better? If you were one of those doctors...wouldn't you ask where you could get some of those? *shrugs* I just think it would have been neat if we saw a little story where the general public found out about the existence of the senzu beans and tried to find out how to get them...

Also...Jeff is really lucky he didn't have to sit through the fake Namek filler stuff.

I remember, when I was a kid, seeing a picture of final form Freeza in one of those ads in the back of an EGM magazine and not knowing who the hell he was. When the dub got around to Season 2 and started mentioning Freeza, I got excited because I was finally going to find out who this guy was and what he's all about. And when I finally saw him...it was this weird horned guy in a hoverchair with a grandma voice. Suffice it to say, I was pretty disappointed.

(I also, seriously, thought that Freeza's hoverchair was like a wheelchair or something and that Freeza didn't actually have any legs. Of course, I would find out the truth eventually, but for a while I thought it was ridiculous that the universe's strongest fighter didn't have legs)

Anyways, can't wait until the next podcast!
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Post by Herms » Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:43 am

I just realized that you guys didn't mention the signifigance of being at volume 21: you're now officially halfway through the entire manga! Congratulations, and here's hoping you get through the second half.
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Post by SHINOBI-03 » Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:18 am

Nice review you got there

this volume I wouldn't say is one of my favorites, but I liked it. Probably because it is a start up for my favorite saga of the DBZ era that got my favorite super villain from the entire series ((and Bulma with my favorite hair cut)).

Like you, I got confused with the idea of Shen Long's power. He said that he can't grant a wish that's beyond Kami's power. Shen Long can bring back the dead to life, shouldn't Kami be able to do it?!

I noticed that you said that Chichi didn't appear in the filler episodes. Actually, she did and kicked some butts with Goku when the Red Ribbon attacked them. ((episoed: 31))

The filler was about preparing the wedding and "Shusoba" was disguised as Goku to sneak in to get the Dragon ball according to Pilaf's orders.

As for the Email about Broli... the movies are not canon and you can tell from the first one. Goku and Gohan are Super Saiya-jins and they are normal at the same time.

And I got an idea for a topic based on the second one: Why don't you disscuss the difference in characters naming between the Japanese versions with the dub and Viz's version? ((I know that you will bring up at least three known changes (("H" word, "D" word, and the "V" word))))

And Now... it's time for my top 5 favorite panels from vol. 21

5- Chichi ignores Goku completly (page 23)

Image

It's a proof that Chichi is a real bi#$% and doesn't care about him at all.


4- Gohan in the suit (page 72)

Image

He just look stupid with this look.


3- Mr. Popo is here (page 49)

Image

I just like Bulma's face in this panel.


2- Vegeta's shit-eating grin (page 129)

Image

Be very afraid, Kiwi!!


1- Freea's evil smirk (page 169)

Image

I wanted to use his first appearing, but it was in greyscale and it looks horrible.

This one is for Mike, because we love the same super villian.

See,ya

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Post by Herms » Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:58 am

SHINOBI-03 wrote:I noticed that you said that Chichi didn't appear in the filler episodes. Actually, she did and kicked some butts with Goku when the Red Ribbon attacked them. ((episoed: 31))
What they said was that she only appears in filler episodes from the time Goku and co. leave Mt. Frypan to when she appears at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai.
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Post by VegettoEX » Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:28 am

Herms wrote:I just realized that you guys didn't mention the signifigance of being at volume 21: you're now officially halfway through the entire manga! Congratulations, and here's hoping you get through the second half.
Holy crap, you're right... :shock:.

I might have to actually purchase Viz manga beyond DBZ volume 12 in the future, something I never wanted to do ;_;. Hopefully VIZBIG will be caught up around then so I can pre-order and waste less money :roll:. Gotta look at those release dates, again...
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Post by Saiyan » Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:54 pm

You could always be one of those "A"-holes and read them in a Barnes and Noble or something...>.>

Little bastards..LOL.

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Post by Son Wukong » Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:28 pm

I actually love the small hints like ''Chauzu blew himself up'', Kaio-sama talking about the ''root of evil'', Karin keeping things to himself. It gives me the idea that Toriyama actually thought further about the characters than to solely use them to convey the plot.

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Post by Forgotten Hero » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:35 am

Good episode guys! It was nice to have a manga review of awesomeness on my Thanksgiving break. So keep the giving coming this next Sunday! :wink:

Just a couple of points and questions I want to make.
The first, how is Jeff reading the manga? Does he go out and buy the Viz manga every month or does he read a Tankobon?
Secondly, is it really a stretch for Kuririn to say that Namek has dragonballs? Vegeta does say, at least in the Viz translation, Namek has magical globes. Here is a quote from Viz.
Vegeta wrote:So it's true that there are globes that grant wishes on the planet Namek.
Call me out on it if you wish, but I honestly think Kuririn is right to make that assumption.
Thirdly, it is such a shame that most of you guys don't like volume five. I've been watching Namek saga stuff since this afternoon. But as Julian said, the next volume has some good stuff.

Again, good podcast guys! Can't wait for the review of the new special.
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Post by sailorspazz » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:03 am

VegettoEX wrote: I might have to actually purchase Viz manga beyond DBZ volume 12 in the future, something I never wanted to do ;_;. Hopefully VIZBIG will be caught up around then so I can pre-order and waste less money :roll:. Gotta look at those release dates, again...
You could also check and see if the libraries in your area carry manga. I'm sure it varies from place to place, but there's tons of manga in libraries in my city.
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Post by Forgotten Hero » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:20 am

sailorspazz wrote:
VegettoEX wrote: I might have to actually purchase Viz manga beyond DBZ volume 12 in the future, something I never wanted to do ;_;. Hopefully VIZBIG will be caught up around then so I can pre-order and waste less money :roll:. Gotta look at those release dates, again...
You could also check and see if the libraries in your area carry manga. I'm sure it varies from place to place, but there's tons of manga in libraries in my city.
Yep, plus Amazon has the manga for only a few bucks!
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Post by VegettoEX » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:42 am

Forgotten Hero wrote:how is Jeff reading the manga? Does he go out and buy the Viz manga every month or does he read a Tankobon?
I've got the Viz releases of 1-28 (DB 1-16 / DBZ 1-12). We all just pass the volume around to each other a week ahead of time.

Thus my conundrum when we get past 28 :P. Probably gonna do the VIZBIG. Doesn't mean I have to like it, though! :D
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Post by Herms » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:13 pm

That should work. If you keep doing a volume a month, you'll reach DBZ GN 13 in June. DBZ VIZBIG vol.5, which will have DBZ GN 13-15, comes out on May 19th. There's no release date yet for vol.6, but they seem to be coming out at roughly three month intervals.

Then again, mayble I could just mail you mine. I'm planning on doing a big spot-checking of Viz's entire translation on the manga in February-March, but after that I'll have no real use for my later Viz volume and I was thinking of getting rid of them.
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Post by VegettoEX » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:20 pm

Eh, I'll just go ahead and pick up the VIZBIG versions. Might as well have them around. I've got the majority of the kanzenban from here on out to the end of the series (and a couple tankobon), but I suppose I could have an English version sitting around for stuff like this.

Forgot to mention that I've also got the American Shonen Jump releases from its inception to the point where they stopped publishing DBZ within. Don't really want to have to break them out of the dusty box in the closest and toss four or so volumes per month to Jeff :P.
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Post by Casual Matt » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:25 pm

Alrighty, let's try something new... Casual Matt's Running Podcast Commentary Extravaganza...
Casual Matt wrote:Oh, Julian and Jeff? Score.

Yeah, it's cold up this way, too.

Turkeys can run sometimes. But no turkey has been free in quite a while now.

I could not run a website for more than ten years. Kudos, Mike.

Huh. I haven't played Infinite World, but if it took out Dragon Rush like Mike mentioned before, then it's got to be some kind of improvement over Z3, which was pretty dang good.

I still can't believe that movie is actually being made.

Yeah, that was a leap of faith on Kuririn's part that ended up being right.

Bulma changes her hairstyle more often than I change my socks.

Man, Popo really likes old Kami-sama.

Bulma, Gohan, and Kuririn off to find Dragon Ball. Almost feels like we've come full circle again.

Oh, geez, Gohan's bowl cut.

I have to wonder how many planets Freeza has named after him.

Well, Julian makes a good narrator.

I'm so used to the anime. The lack of filler is a little jarring.

Well, the good guys are more or less boned.

Spaceship smashed. Good guys even more boned.

So nobody in Freeza's Empire caught on to the fact that Saiyans can increase their Battle Power dramatically by fighting until now?

At least Vegeta is trying to be clever.

Well, Bulma need certain living conditions.

Goku finds out the good guys are boned. And I'm once again jarred by lack of filler.

Bulma's Mom has got it going on... seriously, trophy wife much?

Insert obvious massive balls joke here.

Convenient for the Earthlings that Japanese is apparently the universal language of the cosmos.

I like how people besides Goku manage to get some action and screentime during the Saiyan / Freeza and Artificial Human / Cell Arcs.

Seems like it's evolved far past a gag manga at this point.

SCIENCE!!

Battle Powers were good in the manga / anime. They were interesting. It's the fans who blew it out of proportion by trying to figure stuff out beyond the Freeza Arc.

Kuririn's faulty logic prevails!

Well, Kami doesn't have the same powers as Shen Long, but they have equal strength. I guess Shen Long can't do anything that would require a Battle Power greater than Kami's.

I liked that bit of foreshadowing, too.

If Vegeta is scarred, you know there's gonna be trouble.

I love Freeza's use of honorifics.

Ryuusei Nakao was truly a brilliant casting choice.

Yeah, the Turtle Hermit thought she was a nurse for a second. Haha.

Yeah, Son Goku manages to be selfish. Which makes him a more interesting character since he isn't perfect.

It's unfortunate that Chichi never kept that metal bikini. Thank god for Super DBZ.

Oh yeah, Goku wanting to eat "marriage" or something. Haha.

Animanga! Yayyy! This kind of thing is a bad idea for stuff that isn't even based off comics.

I don't think Broli is Anime Canon, either, just because he's not mentioned or referenced to in any actual episode. Though Movies 8, 10, and 11 are certainly easier to force into the Anime Canon than ones like 2, 3, and 4.

I've wondered about the pronunciation of Pan before, too.

Tolunks!

I still like Soul Calibur II better than Soul Calibur III. And Budokai 2 is probably worth getting. Budokai 1 maybe not so much.

Appulagus?

I kinda liked Paragus.

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Post by VegettoEX » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:20 pm

Casual Matt wrote:I'm so used to the anime. The lack of filler is a little jarring.
Oh man, I can't believe I forgot to mention this... FAKE NAMEK. Such an INCREDIBLY big point to make, and I plain ol' forgot it! Woe is me.

Also, totally forgot to mention Vegeta saying his tail will grow back...
Herms wrote:I don’t really understand why you all hate Kami…
Realized I never addressed this.

I think it's that as we read straight through and get a chance to really analyze it all in one quick batch, I'm finding that Kami-sama... well... doesn't actually do anything. In addition to not doing anything, I find his motivations totally moronic and his sense of decency towards the others (mostly Goku) pretty lacking.

The one time he ever took any real initiative and put the onus on himself to take care of things was when he came down as "Shen" to battle Ma Junior... BUT EVEN THEN he:

- Recklessly put the body of an actual human being at risk
- Nearly got that body destroyed/trapped in a little bottle
- Flat out LIED to Goku about being able to wish him back
- Randomly decided that he wasn't good enough to be "god" anymore, offered it to Goku simply because he's good and was there...
- ... and then didn't follow-up on leaving said role of power

Kami-sama gets the credit as being another "master" for Goku (after Kame-Sen'nin and Karin-sama), yet... well... it was all Mr. Popo. The anime really drives this home before the 23rd Tenka-ichi Budokai, but it's all there in the manga, too... Kami-sama offers very little in the way of instruction or guidance.

The same thing gets repeated again in the middle of the Saiya-jin arc when everyone goes up to his palace to train. Granted, we are not really shown a whole lot... but as far as I can tell, everyone just trains with each other while Kami-sama watches from the sidelines.

Kame-Sen'nin was full of guidance and learning-by-example (minus the lechery). Karin-sama was all about wisdom, common-sense, and hard work. Kaio-sama was right in there with the instruction and desire for the pupil to surpass the teacher, and while there was an emphasis on "moves" or "techniques", it wasn't until after Goku was forced to go back to basics and fundamentals.

Kami-sama? Just kinda stood around.

Maybe after the mid-Cell arc we're due for an episode solely on Kami-sama. Anyone a die-hard fan/supporter that would be willing to provide an alternate take? Many months off, but would be good to know :P.
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Post by Herms » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:09 pm

Good things Kami does:

-He makes the dragonballs, which is a pretty big thing. Granted, we don't see. But we do see him restore Shenlong after Piccolo's been defeated, and allows everyone to come back to life.

-He's the one who tells Goku that Piccolo is still alive and will be at the next tournament. And he did train Goku to some extent, even if by his own admission most of Goku's training was left to Popo. Heck, manga-wise the only shot we get of Goku's training for the 23rd TB is him meditating with both Kami and Popo in the background.

-He's the one who gives Goku a physical body in the afterlife and set him off on the Serpent Road. And he did train all the Earthlings, even if we don't see any of that. And at the very least, he did organize the whole thing. Basically, it's thanks to Kami that the Earth wasn't destroyed.

-He told Piccolo and the others about Kaio's place, and he helped out a little during the whole series of wishes during the Goku/Freeza battle.

-He merged with Piccolo, giving him a huge power-up and his knowledge, which we see throughout the rest of the series. Really, I thinkg most of Piccolo's reputation for being the smart one comes from his actions after merging with Kami. He doesn't do a whole lot that especially clever before that, and even acts downright stupid sometime (like falling for Goku's "man, I hope you don't get any bigger" tactic). Kami also wanted to wait to see how the situation with the androids would play out before they fused, showing he had a better grasp of the current timeline's androids than anyone.

Maybe the problem with Kami is that most of his role throughout the series involves either doing things which we don't actually see, or organizing things while leaving others to actually carry them out.
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Post by Forgotten Hero » Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:16 am

VegettoEX wrote:
Forgotten Hero wrote:how is Jeff reading the manga? Does he go out and buy the Viz manga every month or does he read a Tankobon?
I've got the Viz releases of 1-28 (DB 1-16 / DBZ 1-12). We all just pass the volume around to each other a week ahead of time.

Thus my conundrum when we get past 28 :P. Probably gonna do the VIZBIG. Doesn't mean I have to like it, though! :D
I refuse to buy those. Sure, the individual Viz issues do have their share of errors, but at least they are mostly uncut. They are only missing middle fingers from Gotenks, Yamcha, Tien, Kuririn, and Trunks (future). The Viz big will cut that out as well. Thus I will not be buying Viz Big editions.
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Post by Captain Awesome » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:17 am

Forgotten Hero wrote: I refuse to buy those. Sure, the individual Viz issues do have their share of errors, but at least they are mostly uncut. They are only missing middle fingers from Gotenks, Yamcha, Tenshinhan, Kuririn, and Trunks (future). The Viz big will cut that out as well. Thus I will not be buying Viz Big editions.
The Viz big editions contain the same amount of editing as the most current printing of the regular Tankobon, so anyone going out now to buy them is getting the same thing on crappier paper.

I can totally understand people wanting to buy the box sets for the spine images and just getting in all in one fell swoop, but for those who are buying the manga for the first time and don't want to do so all at once, the Viz big really are the way to go, the content is identical except with a little colour and some much nicer paper and print quality.
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Post by Forgotten Hero » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:56 am

Captain Awesome wrote: The Viz big editions contain the same amount of editing as the most current printing of the regular Tankobon, so anyone going out now to buy them is getting the same thing on crappier paper.

I can totally understand people wanting to buy the box sets for the spine images and just getting in all in one fell swoop, but for those who are buying the manga for the first time and don't want to do so all at once, the Viz big really are the way to go, the content is identical except with a little colour and some much nicer paper and print quality.
Oh I agree, the Viz Big editions are the easiest way to own the Manga (even for Kenshin, which I may buy).

I didn't know the Tankobon were censored as well!? Which things were censored?
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Post by linkdude20002001 » Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:48 pm

By tankobon, he meant graphic novels. They pretty much are the same thing, only in English
The Many English Dubs of DB, DBZ, and DBGT
Viz Release Censorship Guide

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