Thoughts in comparison to Z?

[Rory]

So we're pretty much at the end of the Freeza arc now, a first major cut-off point for many fans (Freeza/Cell/Boo). I think it's a pretty good point to have this kind of discussion
I'd really like to know what you guys think about Kai when compared to Z.
I'd have to say Kai is pretty bad, in my honest opinion.
Though I think the pacing has improved, it's still pretty inconsistent (throwing in filler, despite it's claim to be closer to the manga), at least we knew what we were getting with Z, I'm also little disappointed it isn't even half the episodes of Z, there's a lot more which could've been cut from the series, and it's a shame that the editors just don't seem to be putting in the time to make things manga only.
Visually, Kai is a mess. It's all over the place, and the word consistency just doesn't apply to this show what-so-ever. Some scenes look nice-ish, while others look downright horrendous. I'd choose Dragon Box footage over the highest quality scenes Kai has to offer any day, they really aren't that impressive.
Audio wise Kai disappoints again, with voice actors not impressing me nearly as much as they did on the original run (I'm aware these guys are older, and am not blaming anything on them), some scenes even being unbearable (Nozawa's Kaio-ken.x3). The music is really good, and I prefer some of these tracks to even Kukichi's original score, I'd argue that it fits Dragon Ball more. The placement of these songs lets them down massively. Hearing the same tunes over and over to a ridiculous amount, not to mention silence is quite rarer in Kai than it is in Z, this really hurts the audio side of things that much more.
I can't yet judge the dub, but Linda Young being cast as Freeza makes even the dub worthless to me, making Kai an absolute waste of space for me.

What about you guys? Now that we've come this far into Kai, want to share your thoughts?

[penguintruth]

I don't know, I think Kai's best episodes have been in the Freeza arc. Not only was it an arc in desperate need of compression, but even Yamamoto's score seemed to fit better than it did during the Saiyan arc (though it's still inferior to the Kikuchi score). Yeah, the art mix still bothers me, but I think if I were to purchase any of Kai, it would be volumes of it from this arc.

I still think they undersold Goku's first SSJ transformation, though.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

The only things I like about Kai is the filler being taken out (albeit inconsistently) and the new score. I like voices and animation in Z better and it seems like the animators got lazy with Kai. I also agree with Rory in saying that the Dragon Box footage is better than Kai.

[B]

I'm enjoying it leaps and bounds more than Z. Voice performances that never seemed to stand out to me really shine in Kai, It moves at brisk speed, and the majority redrawn scenes aren't all that annoying in motion, just a couple of REALLY nasty ones. And, at the end of day, it's still not a great product. The refreshed scenes are still iffy, music is reused to a pretty high extreme, and the OP isn't very good(neither was HEAD CHA-LA, so I guess this was a trend they wanted to keep?).

Final analysis: Being better than Z is not all that of an accomplishment.

[Amigo Ten]

I could never get into the Z anime because of how slow it was, so I'm enjoying Kai a lot more. I like Kai's score more than Z's as well.

[Gaffer Tape]

I've enjoyed the parts of Kai that I've seen, and I appreciate what they're trying to do, and, from having just seen episode 53, I love how they've taken the end of the Freeza battle and done away with that full-episode flashback, but I generally prefer Z. The music is better, the voice acting is usually a bit better, and it just feels more like Dragon Ball. But I think I hold a little bit of bitterness to Kai just because of its timing, and the fact that it's overshadowing the domestic Dragon Boxes, which I feel are much more important to the fandom at large. In general, though, I feel Kai is good, but it's just not something I've really felt the need to consistently keep up with or collect.

[Cipher]

I guess I'll take a more extreme opinion.

I literally have to struggle to get through an episode of Kai. The Japanese performances have lost a lot of luster (and honestly, you can't expect a re-record to have the same oomph), the visuals are sloppy, and the score is terrible. More than anything else, I think the score turns me away. It's hard to get into it at all when I'm being bombarded for twenty-two staright minutes by an incredibly generic, repetitive soundtrack. Give me Kikuchi, give me Tokunaga, or hell, even Bruce Faulconer over this. The opening and ending are, likewise, extremely generic upbeat shonen-styled J-pop.

Soundtrack aside, the biggest problem with Kai is that it just feels like a Frankenstein series. You can rave about the improved pacing all you want, but you can't take footage from an existing show, rearrange it, and ever expect it to play out smoothly. Z's scenes were made with Z in mind, and when you take them out of their element, something feels off.

Maybe someday Toei will give us a proper remake I can get behind. But until then, I'll stick with Z. Pacing issues aside, it feels like an actual series with actual direction. And I don't have that fast foward button for nothing.

[Kendamu]

Though I think the pacing has improved, it's still pretty inconsistent (throwing in filler, despite it's claim to be closer to the manga),

It is closer to the manga. A lot closer. Sounds like you're mad because it's not exactly like the manga.

at least we knew what we were getting with Z,

I didn't know what I was getting into with Z. Was there some kind of pre-Z briefing I missed?

I know. Dragonball. Haha!

I'm also little disappointed it isn't even half the episodes of Z, there's a lot more which could've been cut from the series, and it's a shame that the editors just don't seem to be putting in the time to make things manga only.

So, it's a shame that it's less episodes, but you want them to cut more... to make it shorter?

Visually, Kai is a mess. It's all over the place, and the word consistency just doesn't apply to this show what-so-ever. Some scenes look nice-ish, while others look downright horrendous. I'd choose Dragon Box footage over the highest quality scenes Kai has to offer any day, they really aren't that impressive.

Z was full of inconsistent animation. The worst of it, which they used more and more starting with the Freeza arc, is what we like to call "Triangle Crap." If you're going to complain about inconsistency, remember that Z was very guilty of it, too.

Audio wise Kai disappoints again, with voice actors not impressing me nearly as much as they did on the original run (I'm aware these guys are older, and am not blaming anything on them), some scenes even being unbearable (Nozawa's Kaio-ken.x3).

Sometimes I hear a weak Vegeta and I usually hear a weak Bulma, but I haven't had any problems with anyone else.

The music is really good, and I prefer some of these tracks to even Kukichi's original score, I'd argue that it fits Dragon Ball more. The placement of these songs lets them down massively. Hearing the same tunes over and over to a ridiculous amount, not to mention silence is quite rarer in Kai than it is in Z, this really hurts the audio side of things that much more.

I'm hearing tunes from Dragonball in Dragonball Z. Stuff that I had heard for 150+ episodes being carried over another 100-ish episodes into Z. Then, with the Z-exclusive tunes, I hear the same battle tunes and the same standing around tunes over and over again. It doesn't bother me like it does everyone else, but Z is just as guilty of using the same tunes over and over again as Kai is.

I can't yet judge the dub, but Linda Young being cast as Freeza makes even the dub worthless to me, making Kai an absolute waste of space for me.

Haven't heard more than a few clips from the dub. I'm not gonna judge.

Overall, I'm fully aware of Kai's flaws. I don't have as much of an attachment to the original Z anime as many of you guys here do, so I have to look at it from another perspective. I tend to think to myself how I would feel if the same treatment Kai has gotten was done with something like the old Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles series or Batman: The Animated Series. Quite frankly, I'd probably be more disappointed with that than anyone here is with Kai.

So, I completely get where you're coming from even if I can't share your disappointment because I'm not as attached to the anime. My main point is that Z is just as guilty of some of the things that Kai is guilty of.

[Taku128]

I've got the same problem with both Z and Kai, and that problem is pacing. I haven't seen much of either (manga fan), but in what I have seen things are ridiculously drawn out in Z, and ridiculously short in Kai. In Z I just want them to get to the point, and in Kai I want them to slow down because they gave the point half a second and then moved on. I'm starting to wish Kai had been completely reanimated, just so they could properly pace the series. I want something in-between Z and Kai, something that moves at a natural pace. Because of this, I honestly can't say which I prefer.

One Kai specific problem I have is the acting, which I feel isn't as good as it was in Z. I'm not sure if it's a result of the rushed pacing, or if everyone is sick of recording the same lines after fifty million video games, or if the actors just aren't as great anymore, but it leaves me wanting more. If I ever want to watch the Z portion of the manga animated I'll just have to make my own edit, one that nobody will ever see except me for obvious copyright reasons.

[Kendamu]

If I ever want to watch the Z portion of the manga animated I'll just have to make my own edit, one that nobody will ever see except me for obvious copyright reasons.

I actually had plans to do that at one point before Kai was announced, but right now I just don't have a powerful enough computer to deal with ripping the DBox footage and then editing it to my preferred specifications.

It wouldn't be exactly completely true to the manga, though. It'd be true to it 95% of the time, but there'd be parts of fights here and there that I'd keep just because I thought it was that cool in the anime.

[ohaimynameiserik]

Slow pacing absolutely killed Z for me, so I prefer Kai.

I'm with Kendamu in regards to the inconsistent animation claim.

It's there in Kai, but it was definitely there in Z as well, just like repetitive music.

And yes, the original actors have lost some luster. I'm very excited for the dub, though.

Whereas Kai is pretty inferior in terms of the original Japanese version of Z,

the Kai dub compared to its Z dub older sibling will be a very big improvement.

[DemonRin]

See, I Love Kai. Pacing has always been a terrible thing for Z, I've never liked the Pacing of Z, and had taken to reading my Kanzenban almost exclusively when I wanted to relive the story.

Kai fixes that problem for me, so I absolutely love it!.

[Gaffer Tape]

I've read the manga many more times than I've seen the anime, yet I've been watching through my Dragon Boxes, and I just don't see why people are complaining about the pacing so much. Like Mike said, people (including us) have been able to not just tolerate but enjoy Z just fine for 20 years. Sure there are some slow parts, and the fight with Freeza is a particularly straining example, but, overall, whether it's filler or canon, I find something to entertain me in every half hour block.

[Chrome]

I like Kai's new music, the voice-acting is adequate in general and Z's pacing did need to be chopped down. But however well-intentioned Kai is, I still feel it comes out as an inferior product.

The whole thing feels half-baked. The half-assed new animation for example. It should've been all or nothing. I know some people don't mind, but the inconsistent chopping between different art styles makes the experience of watching the show a jarring mess. I expected this problem to improve as the series went on, and it did to a degree, but it's still not even nearly good enough. There are still too many scenes that look downright horrible, and they detract heavily from the viewing experience.

As a couple of people have mentioned, the pacing feels very awkward at times. Some of the more drawn-out scenes in Z were there in the original to build up tension or allow you to appreciate the moment. Kai comes in and cuts down many of these scenes, ruining them completely.

I think what saddens me most about Kai is what it could've been as opposed to what it is. It's certainly not completely terrible or anything, but I don't think it's what it says on the tin.

[dan2026]

Ah my first post on the board, I'll share my thoughts on Kai.

I consider it an immense improvement on the original series.
The terrible amounts of padding in DBZ killed it for me for anything post Saiyan saga.
There are series in which a 1 chapter = 1 episode pace works. DBZ is not one of them.
There is a reason for the 5 mines to Namek exploding joke, the pace in the Freeza saga is agonising.
If memory serves, the Cell and Buu arcs also suffer similarly.

Personally I believe the music in Kai is just as good as the original.
Perhaps some of the cast have tired a bit in the last 20 odd years, but they still deliver an exceptional performance.

I'm not going to claim Kai is perfect, they would have been better animating from scratch.
But from notorious cheapskates Toei, this is the best we're going to get and it serves well enough.
I would find it hard to recommend DBZ to a new watcher, but Kai has defiantly made the series a more attractive package, at least for me.

[gregorthegame]

I agree with Kendamu and DemonRin on this one...
To be honest... When DragonBall Kai was announced, it actually got me back into DragonBall Z...
and when I found out about the Dragon Boxes, they were pre-ordered immediately.. from RightStuf since they always send early.
But that's besides the point...

Why I like Kai?
The pacing, the music (I like it equal to Dragon Ball Z), they both are good soundtracks, in my opinion.
Either way, it's the same basic story... If you know what Dragon Ball Z is you know what kai is... right?
Kai just cuts the boring shit out... I mean... Bulma and a huge crab? Who hired that writer?
Animation-wise.. Dragon ball z had its share also..

I mean... is the music really THAT bad? Yeah they kinda are different, but they both sound very good to me.
And the voices? I really cant understand Japanese.. it always sounds like screaming to me.. so they dont bother me..
I read the subtitles anyways. lol

Just my thoughts and opinions, hope I didnt offend anyone by my opinion... some people just take things to heart. Just Saying.
I'm looking forward to the blu ray release tho.

[Vino]

I really enjoyed Kai's Saiya-jin arc and the Freeza arc wasn't THAT bad, maybe because its my least favourite arc. My problem with Kai are Vegeta's weak voice acting and the music being overused sometimes. Kai has a lot of soundtracks to use, but I hear the same damn tracks every episode, instead of them using some really good ones. Another problem are the redrawn scenes. Sure they need to redraw stuff so they won't have a Pokemon incident, but they just redraw scenes randomly and makes the scenes stand out next to each other. The bigger problem is the cutting of canon and keeping the filler part, which is a big shame. Overall Kai is something for me to watch every week, and hopefully Cell's arc will be superior to Z.

[dan2026]

Hopefully Cell's arc will be superior to Z.

I already consider the Kai Freeza arc a massive improvement over 'Z'.
I honestly couldn't stand the awful pacing of the original. Goku vs Freeza just seemed to drag on for an eternity.
I just double checked and from the start of the fight with Freeza to Namek exploding was 20 episodes in 'Z' and only 11 in Kai.
That alone makes it worth it for me.

[Silver Sinspawn]

I hate Kai compared to Z. I LIKE FILLER.

[dan2026]

I hate Kai compared to Z. I LIKE FILLER.

I have no problem with DBZ's filler. It was lame but at least you can skip it.
What I didn't like is every episode filled with so much padding, that the story pacing was completely destroyed.