RazorX wrote:Sorry, but a niche market would not have worked with the Westwood Studios/Ocean version of DBZ. With a niche market, you target a small segment of the market with a product seen to add higher value than others and charge a high price, usually a lot higher than competitors. I dont think The Ocean dub was THAT much more expensive to purchase for broadcast than the Funimation dub, and there is no indication the Ocean dub was targeted to a niche market. On the other hand, there is indication that the Ocean dub was targeted for the mass market. If it was for a niche market, they would've milked it a lot more to ensure maximum profitability, and that means releasing the dub on home video and DVD. The Ocean dub was broadcast in more countries than the Funimation dub, it was intended for the mass audience, that is how they would make their money off it.
It was a made for TV dub created for some European fans who complained. Ever wonder why there are no DVDs? Not everone in Europe liked it. If the Ocean Dub production was more expensive than the FUNimation, oh boy, they didn't get their money's worth. If anything, it was likely cheaper to produce and cheap to broadcast, cheap dub recycled music, copies of FUNimation video, slightly modified scripts, the only thing that would cost more would be the Acting costs.
RazorX wrote:As far as ABGroupe is concerned, when the Westwood Studios/Ocean dub first hit the airwaves, there was a lot of talk about the return of the old voices, everyone knew how angry fans were with the Funimation voices because of the discussions, so someone contacted Cartoon Network about it and received a reply, the reply stated that ABGroupe produced the dub and distributed it to them, that was before any AB Group credits or title cards were seen at the end of the episodes, so when the ABGroup Distribution logo came along, it simply reinforced the information that was given.
There's no indication that Westwood Media licensed DBZ themselves, which means they were given the job by either AB Group or Toei Animation..
Do you by any chance of this CNUK information? I've always heard about it, but I've never found an actual copy of it to read.
RazorX wrote:But the issue brought up here was whether YTV produced the dub to satisfy this Cancon law in Canada, since your location says Canada, perhaps can gives your opinions on this. I know that YTV did not produce the dub, and it was going round that YTV were unhappy with the way Funimation were treating them, but they also need to consider the audience, they dont want to drive away people to the extent that not many would watch it, they had to take that into consideration. The fact that YTV kept the Ocean dub right to the end of the series suggests that it did well on YTV.
The fact that it took 4 years for YTV to lisence another FUNimation Anime pretty much says just that. YTV was fine with FUNimation dub even when Ocean returned to the game. FUNimation pissed them off, and the fact that it was cheaper to buy than the FUNimation dub was bonus to them.
RazorX wrote:Its a bit difficult for someone who's worked on DBZ to not only say another dub is being produced but also describe some elements of it unless it exists, or he's lying.
Ocean Productions is credited in the Nick Toon's broadcast of Kai, Ocean since changing their names to Ocean Productions does more than Studio recordings, they are now into DVD production, production editing etc.
RazorX wrote:The Pioneer/Ocean dub of the first 3 movies is the best release DBZ has got in English, and unless an Ocean dub of Kai gets released on DVD/Blu ray with an accurate script and the Japanese score, its likely to remain the best. From what I've seen, the Pioneer movies blows Funi's Kai dub away.
I would have loved to of seen that, but that dream died when FUNimatin ditched the Ocean Cast.
RazorX wrote:Why not? because you prefer the Funimation dub?
There doesn't need to be another fanbase fragmentation like there was with Dragon Ball Z . Don't like the idea of Terry Klassen messing up the scripts, and I don't want to see rushed voice acting, or the possibility of Blue Water being handed the production......
RazorX wrote:So is it not fanboyish to suggest that the Funimation dub is superior to the Westwood dub?
Do you just ignore the horribly rushed voice acting in the Ocean dub? I'm not for either of them, both dubs made the exact same mistakes.
RazorX wrote:The fact that the Westwood Studios/Ocean dub contains the voices of quality actors and seasoned veterans such as Scott McNeil, Don Brown, Maggie Blue O'Hara, Brian Drummond, the Dobson brothers, Doc Harris, Ted Cole, Terry Klassan etc etc makes it superior, at least in my eyes (and ears) instead of using newcomers.
May have helped them a little, but it didn't help them enough to push them past FUNimations dub. Saffron left at the most critical point in the her characters screen time during the Cell arc, Kirby Morrow's Goku...... Drummond never matched his Season's/2 quality, not even his good best material in the dub towards the end of the Buu Arc, Scott McNeil had his good and his bad performances.
RazorX wrote:I find it hard to believe that the Ocean and Blue Water dubs would've continued if they received those ratings. Even though ABGroup and/or Toei Animation did a great fanservice by bringing back the Ocean cast, they, as well as Funimation, are in it for the money. If the Ocean and Blue Water dubs didn't bring in high ratings, they may have cancelled them because they're not going to throw money away. That was made more significant by the fact that the companies behind the Ocean and Blue Water Studios dubs relied solely on TV airings. (At least for now)?
Dragon Ball Z was the most popular of the 3, didn't matter what dub played anyway. Blue Water blew GT and Dragon Ball with their horrible voice acting, FUNimation blew GT with the music alone, FUNimation Dragon Ball was okay, but the Scripts could have been better. The Ocean/Blue Water Dubs were made for TV, Ocean couldn't release DVD's in North American, and AB Groupe seems uninteresting in the English market.
I have always found the Hypocrisy of the Ocean fan base to be utterly stupid. They complained about FUNimation ditching the Ocean cast, but when Blue Water Dragon ball Gt came around with a dub even worse than Season 3, they were content with it............
dagame10k wrote:Accurate Scripts and Original score means nothing when the voice acting is terrible.
I don't see how that has anything to do with the Ocean/Blue Water Studios dubs.
Goes for Blue Water, terrible voice acting is not worth watching.
dagame10k wrote:[Good voice acting means nothing when the score is replaced, and the scripts are beyond messed up.
I disagree. But, I'd say that in some cases, a better voice cast isnt enough to make the dub better.
Case in point with Dragon Ball. The BLT productions dub has the better cast, but I find the Blue Water dub to be better, why? Because the Blue Water dub uses the original Japanese score and has an accurate script. The Blue water voices are also decent in their own right.
Blue Water dubs are notoriously knownfor being unwatchable because of the horrible voice acting their dubs contain. I could never sit through a single Blue Water dub, they are at the bottom of the totem pole in terms of quality.
RazorX wrote:However with regards to Ocean's DBZ dub, I disagree with your view. The scripts were not the best, and at times they were messed up, and it didn't use the original Japanese score, but the voice performances made the dub incredibly good, and I found the Westwood music to be less annoying and grating than Faulconer music. So any way I look at it, the Westood Studios/Ocean dub of DBZ is better than the Funimation dub. I assume you like the Funimation dub.
Do you like ignoring the robotic at times voice acting? One thing I found interesting about the FUNimation dub, the lines being said by the actors, they sound natural. With the Ocean dub, since Ocean uses Wordfit, on a terrible production, that flaw is made even more obvious, which it did in this case. I watch Season's 1/2 episodes and or movies 1-3 when I feel the need to listen to some quality voice action, but I wouldn't do that for the Westwood or FUNimation dubs.
RazorX wrote:Why is it that most people (at least from what I've seen/come across) prefer the heavily edited and censored Saban produced Ocean dub of DBZ season's 1 and 2(collaborated with Funimation) over the uncut Funimation dub? It seems Ocean dub's better voice acting overrides a Funimation dub which is uncut and has a slightly more accurate script.
If you like just hearing voices and quality voice acting, that's fine, but if I'm going to watch an anime dub, it definately needs to have everything together. I don't consider either dub anything more than demo's, though Season's 1/2 was the best demo
Dayspring wrote:So what's with the rumor that Ocean handled the video editing for the TV broadcast versions? Were they indeed credited for this (on the TV broadcast version; please don't check your DVD's credits)?
Its interesting that Funimation are still working with Ocean if that is the case, it may also explain how Sean has seen the Ocean Kai dub.
Guy was just a bit confused, just funny how he went on about changed music and scripts like he actually previewed some material.