Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:41 pm

That's a very uhh... "Interesting" cosplay there...

Anyway, cool to see O'Hara doing an interview there; here's another one I found in the related videos for that, with much clearer audio.
I've always been interested in Ocean crew interviews, but I don't see a lot of them around. I guess I just haven't looked hard enough. :lol:
Scott McNeil has done a few that are easy to find though; he's a riot. Anyone who hasn't seen a Scott McNeil interivew -- do yourself a favour and see one, he's hilarious.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:09 am

Robo4900 wrote:That's a very uhh... "Interesting" cosplay there...

Anyway, cool to see O'Hara doing an interview there; here's another one I found in the related videos for that, with much clearer audio.
I've always been interested in Ocean crew interviews, but I don't see a lot of them around. I guess I just haven't looked hard enough. :lol:
Scott McNeil has done a few that are easy to find though; he's a riot. Anyone who hasn't seen a Scott McNeil interivew -- do yourself a favour and see one, he's hilarious.
Oh yeah, he's pretty hilarious.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by MistaL » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:23 am

SX10 wrote:I'm quite excited by all of this and have been revisiting clips from older dubs etc. on YouTube to try and get a sense of how the show may sound. Found something sorta interesting:

https://youtu.be/cTk15DGQwC0

Uploaded Oct 2016. Never seen it before. Usually when Brian Drummond performs these bits, the recordings leave a lot to be desired e.g. lots of background noise & booming sound systems etc.

This is different.

Outside of the few fan uploads and the music video by BB & G-Wize (circa 2010) this is the first I have seen & heard of such good quality, where he talks for a while whilst in character.

Not sure if he was entirely committed to it or if the voice just happens to be closer to to his own now. But if this is really how it is in the dub then Vegeta sounds great. That scream!! :clap:
Oh shit, looks like they went with the correct Japanese pronunciation of Goku if this video is anything to go by. Really excited that we may finally have this dub see the light of day.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:11 pm

Update on Wow

Marni has thanked everyone for the help and advice saying she had phone calls last week and more coming next week, no promises but she's trying to make something happen.

So so far so good. What I take away from this? Marni is listening to the requests for Ocean Kai specifically and is doing all she can, which means, as we've said before, its now in the hands of Ocean and whoever owns the rights to this dub so all we can do is hope the negotiations work out.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by TheQuazz » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:35 pm

Even though this thing still has a long way to go before it gets on the air, I can't help but get really bloody excited!
Thanks to all of you who contributed to getting word of this dub around, now we can only hope that the commissioner of the dub is as enthusiastic about getting the show to air as we are!

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by thaman91 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:13 pm

Wow it would be awesome if this actually happens! I grew up with most of these voices so I can't wait to hear the Ocean dub of the Ginyu and Freeza episodes.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by MistaL » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:21 pm

So it's safe to assume last week's calls were probably with Ocean, and next week's are possibly with whoever holds the license, or if the license has expire then it's probably with Toei. Either way, this is a great step in the right direction. If Marny plays her cards right, then even if we don't get the dub, we'll likely at least learn whether or not the dub is even obtainable by any network at this point. Let's all hope for the best!

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by ButtfaceKalinski » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:49 pm

Huh, I'd assumed this was some unnavigable licensing mess that would be a straight and immediate no. More than one phone call is a positive. Some of you guys should look at jobs in media licensing.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by SX10 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:06 pm

MistaL wrote:
SX10 wrote:I'm quite excited by all of this and have been revisiting clips from older dubs etc. on YouTube to try and get a sense of how the show may sound. Found something sorta interesting:

https://youtu.be/cTk15DGQwC0

Uploaded Oct 2016. Never seen it before. Usually when Brian Drummond performs these bits, the recordings leave a lot to be desired e.g. lots of background noise & booming sound systems etc.

This is different.

Outside of the few fan uploads and the music video by BB & G-Wize (circa 2010) this is the first I have seen & heard of such good quality, where he talks for a while whilst in character.

Not sure if he was entirely committed to it or if the voice just happens to be closer to to his own now. But if this is really how it is in the dub then Vegeta sounds great. That scream!! :clap:
Oh shit, looks like they went with the correct Japanese pronunciation of Goku if this video is anything to go by. Really excited that we may finally have this dub see the light of day.
Yeah! That and Gohan :D so glad I came across this video - excitement overload!

With regards to every other update on this - Marni rocks (the dragon)! She's been great, even just by taking our requests seriously. Exciting times. Stay positive everyone, send out them good vibes.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:37 pm

SX10 wrote:I'm quite excited by all of this and have been revisiting clips from older dubs etc. on YouTube to try and get a sense of how the show may sound. Found something sorta interesting:

https://youtu.be/cTk15DGQwC0

Uploaded Oct 2016. Never seen it before. Usually when Brian Drummond performs these bits, the recordings leave a lot to be desired e.g. lots of background noise & booming sound systems etc.

This is different.

Outside of the few fan uploads and the music video by BB & G-Wize (circa 2010) this is the first I have seen & heard of such good quality, where he talks for a while whilst in character.

Not sure if he was entirely committed to it or if the voice just happens to be closer to to his own now. But if this is really how it is in the dub then Vegeta sounds great. That scream!! :clap:
If I recall correctly in an interview, Drummond said he would go for a deeper pitch.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:48 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:Me neither. I don't see the Ocean dub actors as that much more cartoony than Funimation. Both have their fair share and cartoony is fine if its well executed and doesn't feel forced.
Sometimes I wonder if the Funimation dub fans just have a problem with Canadian voice actors, with the exception of Peter Cullen, Tara Strong and the other Canadian voice actors who work in the US. Because they never criticize American voice actors for doing those cartoony voices.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:48 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:Me neither. I don't see the Ocean dub actors as that much more cartoony than Funimation. Both have their fair share and cartoony is fine if its well executed and doesn't feel forced.
Sometimes I wonder if the Funimation dub fans just have a problem with Canadian voice actors, with the exception of Peter Cullen, Tara Strong and the other Canadian voice actors who work in the US. Because they never criticize American voice actors for doing those cartoony voices.
Honestly, I think Sean Schemmel's Kaio-Sama is as cartoony as anything we've got from the Ocean cast.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:49 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:Me neither. I don't see the Ocean dub actors as that much more cartoony than Funimation. Both have their fair share and cartoony is fine if its well executed and doesn't feel forced.
Sometimes I wonder if the Funimation dub fans just have a problem with Canadian voice actors, with the exception of Peter Cullen, Tara Strong and the other Canadian voice actors who work in the US. Because they never criticize American voice actors for doing those cartoony voices.
Honestly, I think Sean Schemmel's Kaio-Sama is as cartoony as anything we've got from the Ocean cast.
And Chris Sabat's original Recoome voice.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:59 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:Update on Wow

Marni has thanked everyone for the help and advice saying she had phone calls last week and more coming next week, no promises but she's trying to make something happen.

So so far so good. What I take away from this? Marni is listening to the requests for Ocean Kai specifically and is doing all she can, which means, as we've said before, its now in the hands of Ocean and whoever owns the rights to this dub so all we can do is hope the negotiations work out.
Whether something comes of this or not, fandom better be sure to thank Marni just for trying!
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:32 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:Honestly, I think Sean Schemmel's Kaio-Sama is as cartoony as anything we've got from the Ocean cast.
This is actually precisely why I don't like Schemmel's Kaio, actually; his is basically a much more cartoony, silly version of Don Brown's. I always preferred Brown's, because he could sound wise and serious aswell as funny, and goofy. Meanwhile, Schemmel's is basically all goof.

So, the "Ocean's are too cartoony" argument just sounds like total idiocy.
As for why Funimation seems to have a problem with Ocean, it's obviously because it was always their main competition; Funimation took over from Ocean, and have basically been trying their damndest to push it under the rug since like 2003. They never even acknowledge the existence of the post-Saban Canadian dubs.
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:Update on Wow

Marni has thanked everyone for the help and advice saying she had phone calls last week and more coming next week, no promises but she's trying to make something happen.

So so far so good. What I take away from this? Marni is listening to the requests for Ocean Kai specifically and is doing all she can, which means, as we've said before, its now in the hands of Ocean and whoever owns the rights to this dub so all we can do is hope the negotiations work out.
HOLY CRAP!! :D :D :D

I'm so happy.
Basically, the way I see it is that either this will happen now, or it will never happen, and was probably doomed from the start anyway. So... Either we get it, or we were never going to get it anyway. Which is nice. We're out of the woods of uncertainty, pretty much. It's all in Shulman's hands. We've all done our part, now we just have to trust Shulman to do the rest. :)

I think now is a safe time for anyone who's been hesitant to begin hype mode. :)
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:47 pm

Robo4900 wrote:As for why Funimation seems to have a problem with Ocean, it's obviously because it was always their main competition; Funimation took over from Ocean, and have basically been trying their damndest to push it under the rug since like 2003. They never even acknowledge the existence of the post-Saban Canadian dubs.)
I don't know about that. They weren't "always" their main competition. I mean, back when the Ocean dub started, it was technically FUNimation who hired them. FUNimation was the production company behind that dub from the very start. I also don't think they've been "trying their damndest to push it under the rug," considering that they released the "Rock the Dragon" box set not too long ago. For that matter, the credits for the Nicktoons broadcast of the FUNimation Kai dub mention Ocean Studios as being involved in the edits. On top of all that, even if the Westwood dub aired on TV in the UK, Canada, and a few other places, they were still getting FUNimation's home video releases because FUNimation has the home video rights. If the Westwood dub or the Blue Water dubs were being sold on home video and a company other than FUNimation was profiting off of that release, then I definitely think it would be fair to call them competition. That's not the case, though.

As for why they don't acknowledge the post-Saban Canadian dubs, well...I mean, we might as well ask why they don't acknowledge the German dub, or the French dub, or the Cantonese dub. The answer is the same: they weren't really involved, so it's not their thing. So I don't think they've avoided mentioning it because they are "competition," I think they just don't mention it because...it's not their thing. They're not involved in it, so there's only so many occasions where they would acknowledge it. In other words, it's not "They don't talk about it because they want to bury it and pretend it doesn't exist," so much as it is, "They don't talk about it just because they don't have much to do with it, so they only get asked about it so often." I'm sure if they were asked about it, they'd say something.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by NitroEX » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:29 am

8000 Saiyan wrote:
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:Me neither. I don't see the Ocean dub actors as that much more cartoony than Funimation. Both have their fair share and cartoony is fine if its well executed and doesn't feel forced.
Sometimes I wonder if the Funimation dub fans just have a problem with Canadian voice actors, with the exception of Peter Cullen, Tara Strong and the other Canadian voice actors who work in the US. Because they never criticize American voice actors for doing those cartoony voices.
The Ocean cast are as versatile as any other. People might associate their voices more with western cartoons but that's simply because... they mostly work on western cartoons!

A lot of modern dubbing actors (particularly in the Texas/Funimation side) don't often get to work on big budget cartoons so most of their work is comprised of anime and some video games, a lot of stuff that doesn't tend to sound overly theatrical. They often seem to either play roles that are overly serious and realistic or very "anime" (for a lack of a better word), basically performances that fall into certain tropes about how we expect anime voice actors to act when voicing a certain anime archetype. I think this is partly due to the directors wanting a certain style but at the same time we're also starting to see more anime fans becoming professional voice actors so certain ways of performing are probably becoming more idealized by that younger group.

I personally think the Ocean's cast and it's directors have the right idea by going more theatrical for anime dubs as anime can be often be quite static at times (as in, only moving a character's mouths and minimal body movement) so a lively performance can make a static animated scene really come alive. I think they know this and thankfully have an experienced talent pool of cartoon actors who are able to execute it well and not come off as ridiculous (like other amateur dubs in the past that tried to imitate that style).

But this doesn't change the fact that Ocean's cast can still be serious if they want to (Jin Roh, Sword of the Stranger, Death Note, Black Lagoon etc) so it's a bit of an ignorant criticism for someone to make about them. Also, the alternative: monotone boring line reads are far worse in my opinion.
TheBlackPaladin wrote:I don't know about that. They weren't "always" their main competition. I mean, back when the Ocean dub started, it was technically FUNimation who hired them. FUNimation was the production company behind that dub from the very start. I also don't think they've been "trying their damndest to push it under the rug," considering that they released the "Rock the Dragon" box set not too long ago. For that matter, the credits for the Nicktoons broadcast of the FUNimation Kai dub mention Ocean Studios as being involved in the edits. On top of all that, even if the Westwood dub aired on TV in the UK, Canada, and a few other places, they were still getting FUNimation's home video releases because FUNimation has the home video rights. If the Westwood dub or the Blue Water dubs were being sold on home video and a company other than FUNimation was profiting off of that release, then I definitely think it would be fair to call them competition. That's not the case, though.
But Funimation did have something to do with the Westwood dub, both dubs share a nearly identical script and video materials (until the final 2 or 3 episodes of the Kid Buu saga where they overtook them and started using AB Groupe's French video materials instead). Funi might not have been the ones producing it but they definitely knew of it's existence and had some hand in facilitating its creation. Schemmel even mentioned comparing dialogue at one point so the actors were certainly aware. Funimation and Ocean did at one point seem to have a close relationship, Terry Klassen helped with their scripts and as you mention, Kai does credit Ocean for video editing services but I believe that's all strictly business, they clearly aren't friends, as we can see by the recent Escaflowne recasting & redub.

The Rock the Dragon DVD set was an acknowledgement of their Ocean dub (53 episodes + movies) but they have never once mentioned or brought attention to the fact that another Ocean dub of Z exists (containing much of the same voice talent). Their silence on the matter, or omission from the history books (depending on how you view it), frankly speaks volumes about how they feel. It's no accident, they absolutely do pretend it doesn't exist.

Funimation having dominance over the home video market is probably the main reason why they don't mention the competing product, because they simply don't own it (and thus can't profit off it themselves), I think that's ultimately why they don't promote it or give it attention. Although, they seem to go even further than that, the narrative they spun for the RTD set was basically that "everything was edited back then" (to give themselves more of a free pass for past mistakes) which only really applies to the series and TV version of Tree of Might, they deliberately omit the fact that the Pioneer produced movies (which they were in association with) were clearly sold as uncut and faithful dubs, in fact, they're still arguably more-so than the in-house movie dubs produced by Funimation in 2005 (which they still proudly sell as the definitive uncut version - while conveniently not including the uncut Ocean dub as a separate audio track - a practice they're fine doing for their replacement music soundtracks).

I doubt that Pioneer/Geneon/NBCUniversal Entertainment Japan still owns the sublicense to those films, as evidenced by them being on the RTD set in edited form, so one can only imagine that Funimation do in fact own the rights to them, they simply choose not to put them on disc in uncut form because they didn't want to. Why didn't they want to? I think we can draw our own conclusions.
As for why they don't acknowledge the post-Saban Canadian dubs, well...I mean, we might as well ask why they don't acknowledge the German dub, or the French dub, or the Cantonese dub. The answer is the same: they weren't really involved, so it's not their thing. So I don't think they've avoided mentioning it because they are "competition," I think they just don't mention it because...it's not their thing. They're not involved in it, so there's only so many occasions where they would acknowledge it. In other words, it's not "They don't talk about it because they want to bury it and pretend it doesn't exist," so much as it is, "They don't talk about it just because they don't have much to do with it, so they only get asked about it so often." I'm sure if they were asked about it, they'd say something.
This isn't the same as a foreign language dub. The Westwood dub and the corresponding Funimation episodes are both English dubs made at virtually the same time, there was clear competition between the two for certain television markets, such as the UK and Canada, which would later side with the Ocean and Blue Water dubs.

Also, more recently Chris Rager did express some hostility towards the competing Bang Zoom dub of Dragon Ball Super, am I to believe he's the only one in the company who shares his views? Schemmel's badmouthing of Ocean Kai's soundtrack and declaration that "it will suck" because of that is another clear sign of hostility from the Funimation cast. Am I to believe that there was no bitterness at all towards the competing Westwood dub either? I think it would be naive to believe that there isn't at least some competitive attitude going on in regards to other dubs that Funimation themselves do not have a direct hand in making.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by ButtfaceKalinski » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:45 am

I wouldn't put too much stock in ascribing intent to business decisions or marketing speak about home video. I think Rager's little outburst about the Bang Zoom thing was unprofessional, but I understand that it gets under your skin to get voice matched especially for work you take pride in, and in a business where there's always someone else looking to undercut you it can feel like an assault on your personal livelihood.

As for Sean Schemmel saying that something will suck because of a new musical score, well first of all he's a musician, but I know Canadian actors who've met him and they've had nothing but nice things to say. I think Sean and particularly Chris Sabat have been so open and involved with a fanbase that is very opinionated on all aspects of their work, including those they have no control over, that they're influenced quite a lot by it. I also seriously doubt there's any sort of institutional "bitterness" about previous dubs simply because I can guarantee that the performers have never had the amount of time or energy to dwell on imaginary rivalries from the internet.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:50 am

Schemmel may have criticized the Ocean Kai dub for having replacement music and cartoony sound effects, but when he criticized the dub he never criticized the actors themselves, although he isn't on good terms with Corlett, Kelamis and Morrow. He just thinks he's the only Goku voice that matters.
Last edited by 8000 Saiyan on Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:29 am

Robo4900 wrote:It's all in Shulman's hands. We've all done our part, now we just have to trust Shulman to do the rest. :)
I think it's out of her hands. If she can't get Kai because the powers that be want more than her bosses are willing to spend, then that's not really her fault. You can't blame her if she finds out it's "unavailable" for whatever reason.

I have to wonder how/if streaming rights will play into things. The channel Wow is buying isn't very popular, which has me wondering if the acquisitions are going to be bait for Crave (a local streaming service). Who even knows if the powers behind this dub have clearance on that.
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