Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by NitroEX » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:55 pm

90sDBZ wrote:Blue Water GT in particular had some bizarre lines like;
-Goku saying "The earth... the place where I was born", during the battle with Baby before he goes Oozaru.
After checking with the Japanese subtitles this appears to be the case in the original too. So if anything you should be blaming Toei for this, not Ocean for accurately translating it as is.
Vegeta saying to Goten and Trunks that "Gohan isn't the one neglecting his training" on episode 2 when he tries to force them to go to space.
Didn't the GT Perfect Files mention that Gohan did keep up with his training... which would technically make that line correct? Even though he was jobbed out in GT it was technically Super and the new movies that started the trend of Gohan slacking off post Buu.

And also, to be fair, in the subtitles and BW dub Goten does ask Vegeta about Gohan before that line. Gohan actually did declare earlier in the episode that he wanted to go into space so it made sense to address that during the scene as opposed to just forgetting about it like the Funi dub did.
The final episode with the flashback sequence that shows the time Goku returned to earth for the 28th Tournament and appears before his friends and says "Haha see ya!", which makes zero sense because he's reuniting with them and not leaving them.
While this isn't accurate I've personally never taken any issue with this line. It's literally just a quick 4th wall break where he says goodbye directly to the audience. it's a creative liberty for sure but not one that seemed as egregious as some of the changes found in the Funi dub. I see this along the same lines as them adding puns for kids TV. Maybe it was just put there to soften the blow for the kids watching, who knows.
General Rildo being changed to General Lock
I don't claim to be any sort of expert on the Japanese language but I'm pretty sure the name Rildo is basically just a tweaked transliteration of his name pronounced in Japanese, which is Rirudo. I'm not sure what his Japanese name would equate to in English (リルド将軍) maybe someone more knowledgeable can help out with that? But I have a hunch that something along the lines of "Lildo" may be an even more accurate transliteration of his Japanese name anyway as (to my knowledge) the Japanese pronounce the L sound as R. Don't forget that "Gill" from the BW dub was more accurate than "Giru" was from the Funimation dub. Both were transliterations but the Giru pronunciation basically equates to Engrish wheras Gill or Gil doesn't. As a matter of fact, even the Street Fighter games realize this and didn't call this character of the same name as "Giru" in English, he's correctly named Gill. I have a feeling it's a similar case with Rildo which would make the Funimation name not totally correct.

Anyway, I can't verify if "Lock" is in any way accurate to what his name would equate to in English or if it's just a thrown together localisation (in which case, it's a fair criticism) but I trust that their translation team knew what they were doing. There's plenty of evidence throughout both dubs to show that they knew a lot more than Funimation did (at the time) and the Funimation name for this character didn't even exist at the time as Blue Water's GT dub came out first.
Hell being Hadies even though the previous Ocean dubs used HFIL.
Which was an improvement. Hades and Hell are interchangeable and basically equate to the same meaning in English. If they had to censor out the word Hell (which they had to, for TV) then it's preferable to go with that than HFIL (which doesn't really work in a serious context such as the one in the Super 17 arc – when the villains on Earth are directly referencing Hell).

The Goku line to Li Shenron does seem like a legit mistake on their part. I can't remember where the Satan line happened.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by TheGreatness25 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:57 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:I have to agree with you that Sabat's Piccolo was pretty bad. One of my problems with his Piccolo is that he didn't came across as wise and intelligent as McNeil's. I know that some people criticize McNeil's Piccolo for being demonic, but given that Piccolo was once a demon, the voice fits pretty well. Nowadays, Sabat's decent in the role I guess.
That's funny, I actually think that Sabat's Piccolo seemed much more wise and intelligent than McNeil's. For the longest time, the only version of McNeil's Piccolo that I knew was the one that was training Gohan and just trying to build him up almost in secret. With Sabat, I feel that I was exposed to way more scenes of him just standing around and talking. Plus, say what you will, I think that Piccolo theme by Faulconer('s team -- this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72DPhyOVJso ) helped me perceive Piccolo as this super wise, knowing sage-like character. There were long monologues that Sabat's Piccolo would have that I didn't get to experience with McNeil.

It's weird, but I always felt that Sabat's Piccolo should have kept the raspiness in his voice. I think that if the inexperienced performance (line delivery) stripped away, the raspy version of Sabat's Piccolo was better than the "let me just bring the bass in my voice way down low" version. However, I still think that McNeil's voice has so much character to it when he's delivering serious lines because obviously, we know that he can be that goofy 90's cartoon background character. I just think that NcNeil's Piccolo always stands head and shoulders above Sabat's, which isn't bringing down Sabat's performance, but just showing how much regard I have for NcNeil's.

Same with Corlett's Goku. It's odd because Corlett probably spent the least amount of time playing Goku and I find his voice to be the best for the role. It's not that he sounds the closest to Nozawa (that would go to Kelamis when he would scream and have fighting scenes), there's just something to it. The U.S. Goku was always written to be very heroic, and I feel that Corlett captured that Goku very well. Had Goku been written differently, maybe my opinion would be different. Once again, not a knock on Schemmel, Kelamis, or Morrow -- all of whom I think did a wonderful job themselves -- but Corlett will always have a special place for me. He can be goofy, he can be jovial, and then he can be serious. I'd love to hear him deliver some lines against Freeza after turning Super Saiyan (based on how "I'm more powerful than you can I'm going to make you feel it" he sounded against Nappa and even in Tree of Might). But alas, it'll never happen.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:21 pm

I thought you didn't like Kelamis' Goku. Or have you warmed up to him?
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by TheGreatness25 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:21 pm

It's not that I despise his Goku, I just think that Corlett, Schemmel, and Morrow's Gokus are better. I feel -- like a lot of others -- that he could have been a lot better if he was guided a little differently. If the only English-speaking Goku that I saw was Kelamis, I would have been fine, but by comparison, I'm not as into him as a lot of others. I know this is not a majority opinion, but it is mine.

Actually, if we're counting everyone, I'd say that my favorite English-speaking Goku voices from most to least are:

Ian James Corlett, Kirby Morrow, Sean Schemmel, Peter Kelamis, Jeffrey Watson (adult Goku in Blue Water Dragon Ball), Jeremiah Yurk (adult Goku in Blue Water GT), and finally Steve Blum (adult Goku in Dragon Ball: Final Bout).

I am really looking at potential too. I feel that had there been better direction given, that Kirby Morrow and Jeffrey Watson could have been even better than they were, though I appreciate their roles. I've actually just recently gotten into Kirby Morrow since I have a lot more exposure to the Ocean/Westwood dub. My least favorite is Steve Blum, but I think he's a great actor, so it's not like I'm saying that Kelamis is a bad voice actor or anything. I just think that he's not the best of the bunch as a fit for Goku.

To be honest, Goku's been pretty lucky with the talent that stepped up to the plate for all of these different incarnations. For the most part, they're pretty good -- or at least have the potential to be.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:45 pm

I never implied that you think that Kelamis is a bad voice actor.

When it comes to Kirby Morrow, Goku is just not the right role for him, much like Steve Blum.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:56 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:I never implied that you think that Kelamis is a bad voice actor.

When it comes to Kirby Morrow, Goku is just not the right role for him, much like Steve Blum. It's a shame that Corlett and Kelamis weren't informed about Kai, because I'm pretty sure that they would have improved, but I get the feeling that some people like to underestimate their abilities when it comes to improving.
While I do have a soft spot for Morrow, I do agree that he wasn't the best-suited actor for the role, and recasting him for Ocean Kai was the right choice. I think with better direction, he could give a much better Goku, and honestly even in the Westwood dub, I think he delivered a decent portrayal of the dub version of Goku's character, but in a more accurate dub, he wouldn't really fit in. And of course, in the Westwood days, he was hugely overshadowed by the likes of McNeil, Drummond, et al.

The rest of my post will be me going through each point of 90sDBZ's post about Blue Water GT. In the words of George Lucas shortly after showing The Phantom Menace to his investors for the first time, "I may have gone too far in a few places."
90sDBZ wrote:-Goku saying "The earth... the place where I was born", during the battle with Baby before he goes Oozaru.
As Nitro mentioned, this was in the Japanese version too, thus not a mistake on Blue Water's part.
In any case, it does still work; he was born on planet Vegeta as a Saiyan, and he arrived on Earth as the destructive baby he left planet Vegeta as, however when he hit his head, and softened up a lot, he became the Goku we know today. So not only is this not a translation error, it's actually a pretty cool line in theory. Perhaps the exact wording isn't perfect, but the sentiment is nice.

For the record, the full Blue Water line is "The Earth... Looks like I won't be able to protect it this time... My home... The-the place where I was born... And grew up... So many memories... Good friends... All the adventures... I'm sorry that I can't protect it..."
This gels pretty nicely with my reading of the line above.
90sDBZ wrote:-Goku saying to Li Shenron before trying to blow himself up "This is the move that defeated Majin Buu."
Sorry to nitpick, but his name has never been Li Shenron. His proper name is Yi Xing Long(Pronounced roughly as Ī Shing Long), which in Japanese was approximated as something like Ī Shinron, which Blue Water rendered as Ii Shenron(Note that's an uppercase "I", not a lowercase "L"). Not a perfect transliteration due to the business about "Shenron" instead of "Xing Long", but the Ii part is a correct pronunciation, as they use the Ī sound.

This small mistake aside, the criticism itself is somewhat valid, as Steve Simmons' translation of the line in Japanese is "Vegeta, I'm going to use that same skill you used when you tried to blow Boo away!"
The Blue Water line is "It's the same one that finally defeated Majin Boo!"
It's more of an oversight than an outright bad translation. It doesn't look like a good translation choice, but all we have here are two translations of a Japanese line. We'd need someone with an understanding of Japanese to tell us exactly how this difference might have come about. If this was a line in Funimation Kai, I'd assume it was a case of mistranslation, as we already have evidence a huge chunk of the dialogue in Kai is touched-up lines from their Z dub, but with Blue Water, there was no prior dub to base it on, and it's known to have been translated from the Japanese scripts of GT, so it's possible the line was ambiguous, and Steve Simmons rendered the line using more precise terms that fits better with established canon. Meanwhile, Blue Water may have used logic along the lines of: "Well, he's saying this is what Vegeta used to blow up Majin Boo, so we should render that like this."
It's entirely possible(And I'd even say likely) that the translators themselves hadn't watched all of DBZ, and thus missed this simple mistake. And even within the show, it's easy to justify this one line as being Goku misspeaking about the events in question.
90sDBZ wrote:-Vegeta saying to Goten and Trunks that "Gohan isn't the one neglecting his training" on episode 2 when he tries to force them to go to space.
Here's the Blue Water dialogue:
Goten: "I thought Gohan was going with dad."
Vegeta: "I convinced him to stay. He's not the one who's been neglecting his training and getting soft like you two have. Going on this mission will do the two of you a world of good."

And here's the Steve Simmons dialogue:
Goten: "I thought Gohan was going...!"
Vegeta: "This was my suggestion. It would be best if you two went, since you've been slacking off with your training. Going together with Kakarrot will be a good experience for you."

Honestly, I think this is a perfectly justifiable difference of phrasing. Clearly, if Gohan was planning on going anyway, he's been keeping up his training. We see at the end of Z that Gohan's already balancing his family life, and his professional life, so I don't see any reason why he wouldn't also be able to do some training too. He's probably not actively fighting, or training anywhere near as hard as Goku and Vegeta are, and with Oob, Goku, and Vegeta around, he probably doesn't feel much pressure to do so, so this makes total sense.
90sDBZ wrote:-Mr Satan/Hercule saying to the people of earth "I saved you from Cell, Majin Buu, and don't forget Baby!" when the people of earth shouldn't remember the evil Buu and should only know Satan's friend Mr Buu.
Which episode?
I have a strong feeling that would've been in the original Japanese too.
90sDBZ wrote:-The final episode with the flashback sequence that shows the time Goku returned to earth for the 28th Tournament and appears before his friends and says "Haha see ya!", which makes zero sense because he's reuniting with them and not leaving them.
The narrator was also talking in this segment, and it was clear this was a farewell section. In Japanese, Goku says "Haha, yoo-hoo!"
So, "See ya" was a dub change. Though I would argue not a particularly bothersome one, particularly given how weird the line is in Japanese.
90sDBZ wrote:-Changing between "Solar Flare" and "Light of the sun!" within the same dub.
Solar Flare would be a holdover from Z. Light of the sun is a little more accurate, and although it's odd to switch it, I don't think it's that big of an issue. Besides, on the uncut Kai dub, they originally used Japanese attack names for the Makankosappo, Kienzan, etc., then suddenly switched back to dub names. So... This hardly compares.
90sDBZ wrote:-Changing from the accurate "Final Shine" at first to some other name I can't remember in a later episode.
Unless you can remember which episode, or someone can remember the other name, you can't really hold this against it, and no one can really talk about it. On one hand, again, switching terms is weird, but as I said earlier, it's not a big issue, and Funimation have done a lot worse, specifically in Kai.
90sDBZ wrote:-General Rildo being changed to General Lock
As Nitro said, unless you can get someone who knows Japanese to analyse this, you can't comment on this.
90sDBZ wrote:-Hell being Hadies even though the previous Ocean dubs used HFIL.
As said before, Hades is a much better term for it than HFIL. Hades is an actually-known term for hell, but is acceptable on TV, so it's a pretty much perfect choice. The only reason they went with HFIL originally was because the digital painters working on the Saban dub realised it would be really easy to change the "HELL" written on the trolls' shirts to "HFIL". Changing it to Hades is acceptable, and I fully support it. It should have been that way in all the TV dubs from the beginning, and I actually think Hades has a cool ring to it that really suits Dragon Ball.
90sDBZ wrote:I get that the dub is pretty accurate a lot of the time, but to praise it while criticising Funimation's Kai dub for minor changes isn't exactly fair.
It's completely fair. While Blue Water's GT is considered a lesser-known TV dub of GT produced on a low budget for the UK and Canada(Not saying that isn't true, just that that's all people generally see it as), it's actually a really accurate dub, the only cuts are about 10 or 15 seconds missing from episode 7 or 8(Whichever one Goku skinny dips in), and the ending Dan Dan montage is missing a huge chunk, but the latter only applies to the UK airings, and the former I've only ever seen UK TV rips of, but even if the former is a universal cut, I have a hard time caring about it; nothing important happens in the scene, and the episode itself is the worst... On top of this, in a time when Funimation was still using replacement scores, adding a layer of edge on top of the show(Ever heard the Funimation GT narrator?), and using very questionable translations, Blue Water had highly-accurate translations, kept the original score, and very much embraced the original sentimental, often rather lighthearted tone(Ever heard the Blue Water narrator?). And plus, aside from that 10-15-second cut in one episode, it was originally produced as an uncut dub.

And while Funimation's Kai is considered a highly-accurate, true representation of Z as it was in Japanese, and Funimation's chance to right the wrongs of their old dub, large chunks of the dialogue are from the original Z dub(Usually with some retouching), there's still a ton of unnecessary liberties taken with the scripts(Mostly added lines), only a few of the more widely-criticised roles were recast(Freeza... I think a couple of Sabat's Ginyu Force roles were recast... The rest I'm not sure they really had any choice in recasting), and while it certainly is a massive improvement on their Z dub, it's nothing close to what people claim it is, particularly given weirdness like the sudden switch of Japanese to dub attack names, and Linda Young's Freeza still being in episode 1.

Two misunderstood dubs, both a lot more accurate to the original Japanese version than their most closely-related dubs, and in comparing their translations, often Blue Water GT comes out on top, with Kai only winning in terms of a few censorship-related changes(Mr. Satan vs Mr. Hercule is the only one that comes to mind, but I imagine there's a couple more), although that's not to say Kai isn't entirely censorship-free(I've heard they stuck with Bulla...), of course.
And again, all I'm comparing are the translations, and what they were in their time. When GT aired in 2003, it was a pretty rare case of an uncut dub on TV(Again, sans episode 7 and UK airings of episode 64), while Kai came to home video in the era of uncut, accurately-translated dubs becoming the norm. Regardless of which did a better job from the vantage point we have here in 2017, it's interesting that these two dubs from those two very different eras of dubbing are so comparable.

Besides, the only other comparison to be made is Blue Water GT vs Funimation GT, which is no contest; Blue Water outstrips Funimation's in nearly every respect.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by MistaL » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:01 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:Kai isn't entirely censorship-free(I've heard they stuck with Bulla...)
That's really less of a censorship thing and more of a consistency thing. When they're calling characters one thing for years, it'd just be confusing to less-informed fans if they suddenly started calling them something else, which is why they keep "Hercule" in the games and used the dub attack names for the Nicktoons version of Kai. So I can understand them keeping Bra as Bulla. It'd be like if they suddenly started saying Blooma instead of Bulma (though to be fair, they kind of had to go with Bulma because of Toriyama's mistake).

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:04 pm

MistaL wrote:That's really less of a censorship thing and more of a consistency thing. When they're calling characters one thing for years, it'd just be confusing to less-informed fans if they suddenly started calling them something else, which is why they keep "Hercule" in the games and used the dub attack names for the Nicktoons version of Kai. So I can understand them keeping Bra as Bulla. It'd be like if they suddenly started saying Blooma instead of Bulma (though to be fair, they kind of had to go with Bulma because of Toriyama's mistake).
Except Bulla has only ever shown up in a very limited capacity at the very end of Z, and a handful of scenes in GT. Renaming her to Bra wouldn't bother anyone, except the people who object to a character being called Bra.

And again, this is the uncut dub. Hercule isn't used in uncut dubs anymore, and in theory they did try switching to the Japanese attack names...
Except they wimped out on the attack names about half-way(?) through, and just stuck to the dub names for the rest of the run in uncut too.

Bulla was originally a censorship change, just like Hercule. Except unlike Mr. Satan, Bra only appears in the very last few episodes of Z(Even less in Kai!), and a handful throughout GT. If they were fine going with Mr. Satan, it makes no sense they wouldn't also go with Bra.

But, as much as it pains me to say, none of that matters.
Ultimately, the point is that her name is Bra, but it's been censored to Bulla in the dub. No other way of putting it. That's how it is. And that's the point I was making there. It doesn't matter if there's reasons behind it(Especially not if they're as stupid as they are), what matters is that it's an enduring piece of censorship.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by NitroEX » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:28 am

While the Blue Water dub uses Bulla too (presumably to avoid using the name "Bra" as well), it handles it in a much better way. Instead of pronouncing it like Bull-ah, as in the Funi dub, they pronounce it as Beulah instead which is an actual feminine name. It doesn't come across nearly as awkward as her name does in the Funi dub's version. When I first heard their pronunciation of it I had to do a double take because of how masculine it sounded.
TheGreatness25 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:I have to agree with you that Sabat's Piccolo was pretty bad. One of my problems with his Piccolo is that he didn't came across as wise and intelligent as McNeil's. I know that some people criticize McNeil's Piccolo for being demonic, but given that Piccolo was once a demon, the voice fits pretty well. Nowadays, Sabat's decent in the role I guess.
That's funny, I actually think that Sabat's Piccolo seemed much more wise and intelligent than McNeil's. For the longest time, the only version of McNeil's Piccolo that I knew was the one that was training Gohan and just trying to build him up almost in secret. With Sabat, I feel that I was exposed to way more scenes of him just standing around and talking. Plus, say what you will, I think that Piccolo theme by Faulconer('s team -- this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72DPhyOVJso ) helped me perceive Piccolo as this super wise, knowing sage-like character. There were long monologues that Sabat's Piccolo would have that I didn't get to experience with McNeil.

It's weird, but I always felt that Sabat's Piccolo should have kept the raspiness in his voice. I think that if the inexperienced performance (line delivery) stripped away, the raspy version of Sabat's Piccolo was better than the "let me just bring the bass in my voice way down low" version. However, I still think that McNeil's voice has so much character to it when he's delivering serious lines because obviously, we know that he can be that goofy 90's cartoon background character. I just think that NcNeil's Piccolo always stands head and shoulders above Sabat's, which isn't bringing down Sabat's performance, but just showing how much regard I have for NcNeil's.

Same with Corlett's Goku. It's odd because Corlett probably spent the least amount of time playing Goku and I find his voice to be the best for the role. It's not that he sounds the closest to Nozawa (that would go to Kelamis when he would scream and have fighting scenes), there's just something to it. The U.S. Goku was always written to be very heroic, and I feel that Corlett captured that Goku very well. Had Goku been written differently, maybe my opinion would be different. Once again, not a knock on Schemmel, Kelamis, or Morrow -- all of whom I think did a wonderful job themselves -- but Corlett will always have a special place for me. He can be goofy, he can be jovial, and then he can be serious. I'd love to hear him deliver some lines against Freeza after turning Super Saiyan (based on how "I'm more powerful than you can I'm going to make you feel it" he sounded against Nappa and even in Tree of Might). But alas, it'll never happen.
My opinion has always been the total opposite on Z Piccolo. Even as a kid, when I first heard Piccolo's voice switch from McNeil to Sabat in the Z dub I immediately remember thinking that the character sounded less intelligent. As I grew up I still think it sounded that way, at least for the Z dub, in Kai he does salvage the voice into something more appropriate for Piccolo's character but that Z dub voice is still very unfitting in my opinion, it basically makes Piccolo sound like more of an angry brute or shouting drill sergeant who's a bit of a meathead. I honestly can't take a scene like this one as seriously in the Z dub because of how out of place the voice is, he's supposed to be the wise voice of reason there but he doesn't sound like it, he sounds more like the cookie monster yelling and growling all the time. If you look at the Japanese, Kai or hell, even McNeil's version, it's more apparent where Sabat was going wrong with the character at the time. That said, Barry Watson probably did want the in-house cast to sound "tough" all the time (even Stephanie Nadolny's Gohan) so it's possible it wasn't up to him.

I think Corlett's Goku was certainly the blueprint for Kelamis, Morrow and Schemmel's Goku, in other words the heroic Goku. I feel the Funi dub scripts at the time were being written with that type of heroic voice in mind, lines such as Goku's speeches to Frieza probably would have sounded more appropriate with his voice rather than Kelamis or Schemmels. I do appreciate how Kelamis deviated a bit from that heroic vibe and added his own comical charm and martial arts yells, which turned out to be a little more accurate to the original. Of course, they really nailed that in the movies where the Japanese version was the blueprint rather than what Funi envisioned it should be.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:51 am

NitroEX wrote:While the Blue Water dub uses Bulla too (presumably to avoid using the name "Bra" as well), it handles it in a much better way. Instead of pronouncing it like Bull-ah, as in the Funi dub, they pronounce it as Beulah instead which is an actual feminine name. It doesn't come across nearly as awkward as her name does in the Funi dub's version. When I first heard their pronunciation of it I had to do a double take because of how masculine it sounded.
TheGreatness25 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:I have to agree with you that Sabat's Piccolo was pretty bad. One of my problems with his Piccolo is that he didn't came across as wise and intelligent as McNeil's. I know that some people criticize McNeil's Piccolo for being demonic, but given that Piccolo was once a demon, the voice fits pretty well. Nowadays, Sabat's decent in the role I guess.
That's funny, I actually think that Sabat's Piccolo seemed much more wise and intelligent than McNeil's. For the longest time, the only version of McNeil's Piccolo that I knew was the one that was training Gohan and just trying to build him up almost in secret. With Sabat, I feel that I was exposed to way more scenes of him just standing around and talking. Plus, say what you will, I think that Piccolo theme by Faulconer('s team -- this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72DPhyOVJso ) helped me perceive Piccolo as this super wise, knowing sage-like character. There were long monologues that Sabat's Piccolo would have that I didn't get to experience with McNeil.

It's weird, but I always felt that Sabat's Piccolo should have kept the raspiness in his voice. I think that if the inexperienced performance (line delivery) stripped away, the raspy version of Sabat's Piccolo was better than the "let me just bring the bass in my voice way down low" version. However, I still think that McNeil's voice has so much character to it when he's delivering serious lines because obviously, we know that he can be that goofy 90's cartoon background character. I just think that NcNeil's Piccolo always stands head and shoulders above Sabat's, which isn't bringing down Sabat's performance, but just showing how much regard I have for NcNeil's.

Same with Corlett's Goku. It's odd because Corlett probably spent the least amount of time playing Goku and I find his voice to be the best for the role. It's not that he sounds the closest to Nozawa (that would go to Kelamis when he would scream and have fighting scenes), there's just something to it. The U.S. Goku was always written to be very heroic, and I feel that Corlett captured that Goku very well. Had Goku been written differently, maybe my opinion would be different. Once again, not a knock on Schemmel, Kelamis, or Morrow -- all of whom I think did a wonderful job themselves -- but Corlett will always have a special place for me. He can be goofy, he can be jovial, and then he can be serious. I'd love to hear him deliver some lines against Freeza after turning Super Saiyan (based on how "I'm more powerful than you can I'm going to make you feel it" he sounded against Nappa and even in Tree of Might). But alas, it'll never happen.
My opinion has always been the total opposite on Z Piccolo. Even as a kid, when I first heard Piccolo's voice switch from McNeil to Sabat in the Z dub I immediately remember thinking that the character sounded less intelligent. As I grew up I still think it sounded that way, at least for the Z dub, in Kai he does salvage the voice into something more appropriate for Piccolo's character but that Z dub voice is still very unfitting in my opinion, it basically makes Piccolo sound like more of an angry brute or shouting drill sergeant who's a bit of a meathead. I honestly can't take a scene like this one as seriously in the Z dub because of how out of place the voice is, he's supposed to be the wise voice of reason there but he doesn't sound like it, he sounds more like the cookie monster yelling and growling all the time. If you look at the Japanese, Kai or hell, even McNeil's version, it's more apparent where Sabat was going wrong with the character at the time. That said, Barry Watson probably did want the in-house cast to sound "tough" all the time (even Stephanie Nadolny's Gohan) so it's possible it wasn't up to him.

I think Corlett's Goku was certainly the blueprint for Kelamis, Morrow and Schemmel's Goku, in other words the heroic Goku. I feel the Funi dub scripts at the time were being written with that type of heroic voice in mind, lines such as Goku's speeches to Frieza probably would have sounded more appropriate with his voice rather than Kelamis or Schemmels.I do appreciate how Kelamis deviated a bit from that heroic vibe and added his own comical charm and martial arts yells, which turned out to be a little more accurate to the original. Of course, they really nailed that in the movies where the Japanese version was the blueprint rather than what Funi envisioned it should be.
Indeed, but that doesn't mean that Corlett wouldn't have worked for an accurate dub.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:32 pm

I noticed Brendan Hunter "liked" Marni's tweets today. I guess word is spreading to the smaller voice actors.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by SX10 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:54 pm

Super Saiyan Prime wrote:I noticed Brendan Hunter "liked" Marni's tweets today. I guess word is spreading to the smaller voice actors.

He diiiid? See I know Brian Drummond & Lee Tockar have been mentioned & reached out to, but not Brendan Hunter. Don't wanna read too much into it, but I like it.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:06 pm

NitroEX wrote:I honestly can't take a scene like this one as seriously in the Z dub because of how out of place the voice is, he's supposed to be the wise voice of reason there but he doesn't sound like it, he sounds more like the cookie monster yelling and growling all the time. If you look at the Japanese, Kai or hell, even McNeil's version, it's more apparent where Sabat was going wrong with the character at the time. That said, Barry Watson probably did want the in-house cast to sound "tough" all the time (even Stephanie Nadolny's Gohan) so it's possible it wasn't up to him.
Woah... A/B comparing that scene is night and day. Sabat's sounds grumpy, and seems to be angry at everyone, constantly being on the verge of yelling.
Meanwhile, McNeil keeps very cool, only raising his voice to tell Trunks to not fly away. The demonic, dark tones of the old Piccolo are definitely still there, but he's clearly a very zen person at this point, and it's quite obvious he's ready to merge with Kami.

One odd thing I noticed is the dialogue is quite different. It's mostly along the same lines, but it's phrased differently. Ocean's seems to use a lot more contractions("It's" instead of "It is" and such), for starters. :lol:
Actually, I get the feeling most of those changes are down to McNeil deciding to do it another way in the booth, since his Piccolo has that sort of... I dunno how to describe it, but that particular accent with a kind of drawl to it that certain words and phrases just don't gel with.

And on top of that... People say the Westwood dub was poorly directed, and had a lot of bad line delivery, but... I mean, compared to the Saban era, sure, the Westwood dub falls down, but compared to the Westwood dub, Funi's dub is in the dust.
Tenshinhan is equally bad in both, but the others are, well... Night and day.
SX10 wrote:
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:I noticed Brendan Hunter "liked" Marni's tweets today. I guess word is spreading to the smaller voice actors.

He diiiid? See I know Brian Drummond & Lee Tockar have been mentioned & reached out to, but not Brendan Hunter. Don't wanna read too much into it, but I like it.
He was one of the Blue Water voices, wasn't he?
I forget which one though...
Still, that's cool. :thumbup:
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Arian » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:31 pm

Robo4900 wrote:He was one of the Blue Water voices, wasn't he?
I forget which one though...
Still, that's cool. :thumbup:
He was Tenshinhan in Dragon Ball and Uub in GT. A friend of mine talked to him and he is for sure reprising Tien in Kai.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:38 pm

Arian wrote:He was Tenshinhan in Dragon Ball and Uub in GT. A friend of mine talked to him and he is for sure reprising Tien in Kai.
Oh that's really cool.

Has anyone put together a list of so-far known cast members for Ocean Kai yet?
I know some of the actors have confirmed appearing in it either without saying who the character is, or only to later ask not to be mentioned, but it'd be handy if someone has a nice list of the ones we know of and are allowed to talk about. :)
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:41 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Arian wrote:He was Tenshinhan in Dragon Ball and Uub in GT. A friend of mine talked to him and he is for sure reprising Tien in Kai.
Oh that's really cool.

Has anyone put together a list of so-far known cast members for Ocean Kai yet?
Richard Ian Cox as Goku
Saffron Henderson as Kid Gohan
Brian Drummond as Vegeta
Scott McNeil as Piccolo, Jeice and Dr. Briefs
Michael Dobson as Nappa
Lee Tockar as Frieza
Cole Howard as Android 17
Brendan Hunter as Tenshinhan

James Beach and Trevor Devall also have roles in this dub, but we don't know which roles they're playing.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:13 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:Richard Ian Cox as Goku
Saffron Henderson as Kid Gohan
Brian Drummond as Vegeta
Scott McNeil as Piccolo, Jeice and Dr. Briefs
Michael Dobson as Nappa
Lee Tockar as Frieza
Cole Howard as Android 17
Brendan Hunter as Tenshinhan

James Beach and Trevor Devall also have roles in this dub, but we don't know which roles they're playing.
Cheers, man. Ooh, they recast #17. That's cool. :)

Now, are there any we know for sure aren't coming back for Kai?
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:10 am

Maggie Blue O'Hara sure as hell isn't coming back to play Bulma. She spent ten years in Hong Kong and only returned to Vancouver in 2015.

Lalainia Lindbjerg seemed to stop doing voice work in 2009, until she returned to voice a part in Gintama.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:28 am

Huh. I guess Ocean Bulmas are difficult to keep in the Ocean talent pool -- that only leaves France Peras, provided she wasn't sent to another planet or something. :lol:

I wonder if Peras was auditioned for Bulma. I don't remember those really late episodes being on TV much when I was watching(From what I understand, France Peras took over from episode 246/261), so I don't really remember how she sounded as Bulma.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:42 am

Robo4900 wrote:Huh. I guess Ocean Bulmas are difficult to keep in the Ocean talent pool -- that only leaves France Peras, provided she wasn't sent to another planet or something. :lol:

I wonder if Peras was auditioned for Bulma. I don't remember those really late episodes being on TV much when I was watching(From what I understand, France Peras took over from episode 246/261), so I don't really remember how she sounded as Bulma.
Who the hell names their kid France?
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