Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 14; Still Unreleased

[ButtfaceKalinski]

Can't speak for what contracts are like these days, but I can't imagine the direction of travel has gone against producers. UBCP always had a 200% buyout which assigned rights in perpetuity. Nice chunk of change up front. I heard that in Toronto under ACTRA they had a lower buyout but it was timed, and so nobody who wanted to syndicate a show forever would touch that market.

Nothing done in Vancouver will have issues with residuals, even if this is as old as the hills now.

[SX10]

This is all fascinating stuff! To me, this points to a deal closing being even more likely. Also, the longer we go with no official word on launch the more I wonder if the channel will come around in summer. Would have thought 2 months in advance of a launch would be perfect for some light marketing.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Well, it was stated that if the channel didn't launch before the end of the year it would have to in April? May be wishful thinking on my part though, I just want this dub out, speculation is fun in small doses but it feels unrewarding in the case of Ocean Kai where its been ongoing for almost 9 years.

It still feels weird this dub was recorded so long ago, yet when and if it finally airs we will need to mentally acknowledge and recognize it as a new product. Often I would reread the passage of Brian Drummond's interview in Derek Padula's book Dragon Soul where he ever so casually referred to doing Kai in past tense, and it just serves as a reminder for what a missed opportunity it would be if worst comes to worst and this dub doesn't end up airing on Wow TV. We could have had fun discussions about which Kai dub was better, who improved more in their roles Funimation or Ocean. Hell, look at everyone saying now that they grew up watching Kai on Nicktoons. We could have had kids in Canada or the UK (if TOEI had let Kix air Ocean's dub) who could have been posting here now about their nostalgia for the Ocean cast and their work on Kai if only events had of played out differently. We probably would have even had Ocean dubs of TFC and Super by now. That said, if all goes well it will be fun to revisit the classic story arcs once again with most of the original English DBZ cast and a (hopefully) perfectly cast Goku in Richard Ian Cox. That is a big if however.

I really don't want to rain on anyone's parade but I'm sure TheBlackPaladin will agree with me on this one that there is always the chance this dub could never see the light of day, but I'm trying to remain cautiously optimistic as we've arguably got a better chance now of seeing this dub than ever before as we finally have a channel that has expressed interest, so hopefully the days of this dub being vapourware are slowly but surely coming to an end.

I had a dream last night about scrolling through reviews of Kai from IMDB and someone raving about how great the show was and particularly Brian Drummond's performance as Vegeta. It felt weird as all that went through my head was how could this poster have possibly seen this dub, and when I woke up I felt disappointed it wasn't real as that poster could have meant another source to ask about the Korea rumour and confirm whether or not there was any truth to it. But I guess that's the thing with dreams. You wake up when reality and critical thinking catches you and you know this couldn't be happening.

Still anticipating any updates on this channel and Kai. Maybe, just maybe the time is drawing near, but none of us can say for sure.

[SX10]

That's a fantastic post, Dragon Ball Ireland, every word is true. I've had a few great dreams about the dub and a few nasty nightmares ones where the dub was comically bad, worse than Big Green and Speedy dub even.

Look at it this way:

* the license holder is happy to let it happen ("if this is what you really want, then let's talk")
* Marni & her team want it to happen
* they know the fan base exists & is loyal
* the platform is perfect for the show
* the country it would launch in is perfect for the show
* negotiations have been happening for nearly a year & a half now
* purely logical speculation deduces that the show is cheaper to license
* Ocean WANT this on TV & tried offering it to YTV many times (what do they have that Wow! don't?)

Negotions could, at this point, be solicitors checking contracts or staff working out fine details. There might be NDAs now. If it doesn't work out, it would be just one of those things, and it COULD happen, obviously. But there are so many positives about this so far

[GokuDaimao]

*Ocean WANT this on TV & tried offering it to YTV many times (what do they have that Wow! don't?)

An established name, easy availability on basic cable (so it would be in most households in Canada), and a previously existing relationship with the franchise.

Unfortunately, the people who own YTV don't want anything alternative, just play it safe and keep it mainstream by airing safe and banal content such as the same Disney movies every night and call it a day. Same goes for DHX's Family channels.

I sincerely believe that Wow! and Bell will bring us that alternative content that YTV once had. I'm especially hopeful for this. If not for Kai, then at least for the network in general.

[Super Sayian Prime]

Ocean WANT this on TV & tried offering it to YTV many times (what do they have that Wow! don't?)

Partnerships with Disney, Hasbro, Nickelodeon and Warner Bros. Corus (the owner of YTV, Teletoon and a host of other channels) has largely stopped picking up third party acquisitions outside of those deals. Why make an effort to go after specific shows when you can just shuffle around your pre-existing licensed programming and occasionally add in some homegrown content?

This situation is why there's hope Wow will get anime back on TV again in Canada ... because there isn't much else they could go for. They don't have the budget, studio bandwidth or catalog to go it alone and all the big name English-native kids content is off the table. Who knows if they'll deliver on that optimism, though. Right now their offerings on Crave are nothing to write home about. They mainly consist of older shows from DHX's library (DHX being Canada's other major children's broadcaster) that they wouldn't air on their channels.

[Danfun64]

Corus literally owns the rights to the Canadian equivalents of Disney Channel, Nickelodeon, and Cartoon Network. Combine all that with YTV, Teletoon and Treehouse TV and they have a goddamn monopoly over children's content in Canada. It'll be nice to see some true competition in the form of Wow's upcoming channel.

[SX10]

Wow, that's nuts, I had no idea. At least competition is on it's way.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Can't speak for what contracts are like these days, but I can't imagine the direction of travel has gone against producers. UBCP always had a 200% buyout which assigned rights in perpetuity. Nice chunk of change up front. I heard that in Toronto under ACTRA they had a lower buyout but it was timed, and so nobody who wanted to syndicate a show forever would touch that market.

Nothing done in Vancouver will have issues with residuals, even if this is as old as the hills now.

I've been looking into the possibility of moving to either Toronto or Vancouver (I live in Los Angeles now), and indeed, one of the more interesting aspects of the Canadian voice acting industry that I've learned is that the Toronto and Vancouver markets, despite both having a (reasonably) strong union presence, are very, very different markets, and that the union rules differ according to which city we're talking about as well. It could be quite possible that, in reading about the ACTRA dubbing agreement, I was getting the specifics of Toronto and Vancouver mixed up. Quite a fascinatingly different animal than what's going on here in the states!

I really don't want to rain on anyone's parade but I'm sure TheBlackPaladin will agree with me on this one that there is always the chance this dub could never see the light of day, but I'm trying to remain cautiously optimistic as we've arguably got a better chance now of seeing this dub than ever before as we finally have a channel that has expressed interest, so hopefully the days of this dub being vapourware are slowly but surely coming to an end.

All too true. I noticed a while back that a lot of my posts about this dub were some variant of the phrase, "Well, that's still not a guarantee that we'll see it," so I stopped posting as frequently in the interest of not being this thread's resident naysayer. That said, your opinion on where the situation currently stands pretty much sums up my own. There is still no iron-clad garuntee (that we know of) that says we're going to see this dub. Wow may either get the FUNimation dub or just not get Kai at all...that said, the fact that they're actually talking about it is reason for cautious optimism. I won't be surprised if we end up not getting it, but at the same time, I'd be lying if I said I was completely devoid of any hope whatsoever. We may yet see the Great Breaking of the Cycle.

[8000 Saiyan]

Honestly, if I were a voice actor, I'd probably stay in Los Angeles. As much as I like Vancouver VA's a great deal, they don't really get quality shows to work with. It's even worse with Toronto VA's.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Honestly, if I were a voice actor, I'd probably stay in Los Angeles. As much as I like Vancouver VA's a great deal, they don't really get quality shows to work with. It's even worse with Toronto VA's.

I'll keep this brief since I want to respect the wishes of the mods by keeping this thread focused on the Ocean dub (and not me), but to answer briefly...

You're right in many ways. Los Angeles is the entertainment capital of the world, and they tend to get the most high-profile projects. In doing my research, I've talked with Toronto and Vancouver-based voice actors, voice acting coaches, and in one case even a voice acting talent agent, and they all opened with, "Wait, so, you want to move from Los Angeles to here? You're aware that we don't get as many high-profile projects, that several of our voice actors have done the opposite of what you're doing and moved out to LA, and that winter lasts 11 months out of the year in this country*, right?"

*That last bit, I should be clear, was something they all said, but with a laugh and in the context of an "I'm exaggerating of course, but there's a degree of truth to it"-joke.

So, yeah, if fame and prestige of the projects were the only factors, I'd have no reason to leave LA.

That said, one of the greatest pieces of life advice I ever got, and the reason I decided to take time on this thread to respond to your (correct) assessment of the voice acting markets, was this: "Don't build a career, build a life." I don't hate LA by any means, but Toronto, Vancouver, and Canada in general are more appealing places for me in terms of where I'd like to live and build my life. Plus, while it's undeniably cool to have the opportunity to work on these high-profile projects here in LA, I really don't care how high-profile or prestigious they are as long as I'm having fun on the job.

[SX10]

That's a wonderful way of thinking BlackPaladin major respect! Wish Scotland had a big creative industry.

Scottish dub of Z Kai up next: "Awright, Frieza?"

But to be on topic, I feel like April can't come fast enough.

[Attitudefan]

Honestly, if I were a voice actor, I'd probably stay in Los Angeles. As much as I like Vancouver VA's a great deal, they don't really get quality shows to work with. It's even worse with Toronto VA's.

I'll keep this brief since I want to respect the wishes of the mods by keeping this thread focused on the Ocean dub (and not me), but to answer briefly...

You're right in many ways. Los Angeles is the entertainment capital of the world, and they tend to get the most high-profile projects. In doing my research, I've talked with Toronto and Vancouver-based voice actors, voice acting coaches, and in one case even a voice acting talent agent, and they all opened with, "Wait, so, you want to move from Los Angeles to here? You're aware that we don't get as many high-profile projects, that several of our voice actors have done the opposite of what you're doing and moved out to LA, and that winter lasts 11 months out of the year in this country*, right?"

*That last bit, I should be clear, was something they all said, but with a laugh and in the context of an "I'm exaggerating of course, but there's a degree of truth to it"-joke.

So, yeah, if fame and prestige of the projects were the only factors, I'd have no reason to leave LA.

That said, one of the greatest pieces of life advice I ever got, and the reason I decided to take time on this thread to respond to your (correct) assessment of the voice acting markets, was this: "Don't build a career, build a life." I don't hate LA by any means, but Toronto, Vancouver, and Canada in general are more appealing places for me in terms of where I'd like to live and build my life. Plus, while it's undeniably cool to have the opportunity to work on these high-profile projects here in LA, I really don't care how high-profile or prestigious they are as long as I'm having fun on the job.

Just expect below zero Celsius weather during the winter anywhere in Canada

[Robo4900]

Huh. I coulda sworn the Westwood/post-Saban Ocean dub existed because of AB Groupe’s distribution rights?

We really have no idea how, why, or even precisely when the Westwood dubs came to be.

Pretty sure Westwood Media are just another hired gun other companies use to do audio recording. Remember they are part of the Ocean Group (of studios, which there are others, including Blue Water and BLT) not a production company.

As far as we know AB did produce the Westwood dub with Funimation's edited masters up until the last three episodes. After that they used the French masters for the last few episodes of DBZ and for the entirety of the Blue Water dubs.

Not really.
People who looked into this back in the day, when the info was still fresh, and thus undistorted by time, found that Westwood did all the actual production work, AB only worked as a distributor, and after Funi fell behind, in providing footage. And Westwood didn't provide the studio any of the material they produced was recorded in; as I recall, the studio the Z material was recorded at was called SoundWave or something like that. Then the Blue Water run was, I believe, recorded at Blue Water's own studio in Calgary, with Westwood still acting as producers. If Westwood were providing studios, then the move to Blue Water wouldn't have made sense, and things would have very much stayed in Vancouver.

Just a question, where was the Westwood Dub recorded? In US or France?

I've read that it wasn't produced in Canada which I thought it was a Canadian dub as the primary audience was Canada/UK and Scandinavian countries.

It was all recorded in Canada; Vancouver for Z, Calgary for DB and GT.

[8000 Saiyan]

That's a fantastic post, Dragon Ball Ireland, every word is true. I've had a few great dreams about the dub and a few nasty nightmares ones where the dub was comically bad, worse than Big Green and Speedy dub even.

Good God, I don't know what I'd do if the Ocean Kai dub was worse than those dubs.

That's a wonderful way of thinking BlackPaladin major respect! Wish Scotland had a big creative industry.

Scottish dub of Z Kai up next: "Awright, Frieza?"

But to be on topic, I feel like April can't come fast enough.

A Scottish Kai dub would be hilarious.

Well, time flies fast, so let's be patient.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Good God, I don't know what I'd do if the Ocean Kai dub was worse than those dubs.

I can't imagine it will be anywhere near as bad as the Big Green or Speedy dubs. I'd say at worst it will be on par with the Westwood dub, but I very much doubt it since, as far as we can tell the 98 episodes were recorded over 3-4 years (between 2010 and 2014 when it was approved by the CRTC), and the fact the producers went out of their way to cast a Goku that is not just serviceable.

A Scottish Kai dub would be hilarious.

Well, time flies fast, so let's be patient.

I'd be more up for an Irish Kai dub (with English dialogue of course as I'd say a dub in the native language would have far too niche an audience).

"Alri' Goku, what's the craic"

But yeah, I'm really losing my patience. I do want nothing to go wrong and for it to air on Wow when April rolls around. I know Ocean are very protective of their content library, but I wish we could even get a teaser. Surely someone working there must know that thing would explode and get the fandom talking.

[MasenkoHA]

Good God, I don't know what I'd do if the Ocean Kai dub was worse than those dubs.

I can't imagine it will be anywhere near as bad as the Big Green or Speedy dubs. I'd say at worst it will be on par with the Westwood dub, but I very much doubt it since, as far as we can tell the 98 episodes were recorded over 3-4 years (between 2010 and 2014 when it was approved by the CRTC), and the fact the producers went out of their way to cast a Goku that is not just serviceable.

I hugely respect Ocean for doing open auditions instead of doing “legacy” casting as often as possible like Funimation did. Nothing against Kirby Marrow, he seems like a swell dude, and I don’t hate his Goku but I’m glad he was recast instead of just being given the role.

I’m thinking Ocean Kai will be on par with their Funimation/Saban days or at least better than Westwood.


Worst case scenario the replacement music is shit but the hastily pasted Kikuchi music and the ungodly bland Sumitomo score in TFC was hardly high bar setting.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Worst case scenario the replacement music is shit but the hastily pasted Kikuchi music and the ungodly bland Sumitomo score in TFC was hardly high bar setting.

I'm quite looking forward to hearing the new score. I am probably in the minority of people who liked Tom Keenlyside and John Mitchell's score for the Westwood dub, sure the earlier Megaman songs weren't very fitting but the later stuff in the Fusion and Kid Buu arcs was quite promising. Once they have had the time to craft a score well (which they should considering how much more time this dub had compared to the Westwood dub) and good sound editors are on board to make sure its placed well I'm excited for what they will bring.

I'm also cautiously optimistic that like with Goku's casting the producers of this dub aren't going to just settle for less with the music and had something worthy of praise in mind.

[jochs]

So, say hypothetically Wow! comes through and gets the rights for the dub this week.. Is 1-2 months (dependent on when the channel exactly launches and assuming it's truly in April) enough time for it to be aired on the day it launches or very shortly after? Not that it'd be a problem to wait a little bit longer after all this time, but the clock is ticking if there is hope to potentially see the dub in April.

[GokuDaimao]

So, say hypothetically Wow! comes through and gets the rights for the dub this week.. Is 1-2 months (dependent on when the channel exactly launches and assuming it's truly in April) enough time for it to be aired on the day it launches or very shortly after? Not that it'd be a problem to wait a little bit longer after all this time, but the clock is ticking if there is hope to potentially see the dub in April.

For all we know, they already have the broadcasting license and they're just playing the waiting game.

The whole "discussions are still brewing thing" they told our friend, DBI could just be a clever disguise because they don't want to say anything before the launch of Wow! TV.