Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 14; Still Unreleased

[Dark Vegeta-Sama]

I've noticed how Drummond said that he didn't change the way he voiced Vegeta when he became more of a good guy/anti-hero in that video of his panel...

For those who don't like that, it's an unreasonable expectation to have.

People in real life can go through drastic changes in personality as well, but that doesn't mean that their voice suddenly changes along with it. They'll still sound the same even if they act differently.

[8000 Saiyan]

I've noticed how Drummond said that he didn't change the way he voiced Vegeta when he became more of a good guy/anti-hero in that video of his panel...

For those who don't like that, it's an unreasonable expectation to have.

People in real life can go through drastic changes in personality as well, but that doesn't mean that their voice suddenly changes along with it. They'll still sound the same even if they act differently.

That's true. To this day I still can't understand why some people who dig his Wolverine hate his Piccolo for sounding evil (he used his Wolverine voice) when Wolverine is a good guy like Piccolo.

[Robo4900]

I've noticed how Drummond said that he didn't change the way he voiced Vegeta when he became more of a good guy/anti-hero in that video of his panel...

For those who don't like that, it's an unreasonable expectation to have.

People in real life can go through drastic changes in personality as well, but that doesn't mean that their voice suddenly changes along with it. They'll still sound the same even if they act differently.

That's true. To this day I still can't understand why some people who dig his Wolverine hate his Piccolo for sounding evil (he used his Wolverine voice) when Wolverine is a good guy like Piccolo.

It's just people trying to hate on the Ocean dub. There's the prevalent attitude of dissing a thing that's alternative to your favourite thing, almost like your thing is threatened. "those canadian guys threaten our american pride!! must diss them!!"
It's just nonsense; I pay it no mind. Nothing wrong with having a preference, but shitting on these guys' work just because the voice is different from what you're used to? Just makes me roll my eyes.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I bring you some news! It looks like there's this new channel in town for Canada! And it will air anime! I really really really REALLY hope Wow follows suit with Dragon Ball Z Kai.

https://worldscreen.com/tvkids/toon-a-v ... -oh-zexal/

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... me/.145980

And just so you know they want to air anime:

“The series fits perfectly into our schedule targeting 8- to 12-year-olds who love anime and Yu-Gi-Oh!”

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I bring you some news! It looks like there's this new channel in town for Canada! And it will air anime! I really really really REALLY hope Wow follows suit with Dragon Ball Z Kai.

https://worldscreen.com/tvkids/toon-a-v ... -oh-zexal/

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... me/.145980

And just so you know they want to air anime:

“The series fits perfectly into our schedule targeting 8- to 12-year-olds who love anime and Yu-Gi-Oh!”

Awesome, never heard of them. We should definitely reach out to them and suggest they look into Ocean Kai if worst comes to worst and it doesn't air on Wow.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Yes, but DO NOT do that NOW. Wait and see if Wow is not able to do it. Because if we try that it may jeopardize the whole thing.

[C. Smith]

I bring you some news! It looks like there's this new channel in town for Canada! And it will air anime! I really really really REALLY hope Wow follows suit with Dragon Ball Z Kai.

https://worldscreen.com/tvkids/toon-a-v ... -oh-zexal/

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... me/.145980

And just so you know they want to air anime:

“The series fits perfectly into our schedule targeting 8- to 12-year-olds who love anime and Yu-Gi-Oh!”

Awesome, never heard of them. We should definitely reach out to them and suggest they look into Ocean Kai if worst comes to worst and it doesn't air on Wow.

Not yet. As Cure Dragon 255 said, let the negotiation between Wow and Toei go through before we get to suggesting ToonaVision to air Ocean Kai if Wow doesn't

[8000 Saiyan]

For those who don't like that, it's an unreasonable expectation to have.

People in real life can go through drastic changes in personality as well, but that doesn't mean that their voice suddenly changes along with it. They'll still sound the same even if they act differently.

That's true. To this day I still can't understand why some people who dig his Wolverine hate his Piccolo for sounding evil (he used his Wolverine voice) when Wolverine is a good guy like Piccolo.

It's just people trying to hate on the Ocean dub. There's the prevalent attitude of dissing a thing that's alternative to your favourite thing, almost like your thing is threatened. "those canadian guys threaten our american pride!! must diss them!!"
It's just nonsense; I pay it no mind. Nothing wrong with having a preference, but shitting on these guys' work just because the voice is different from what you're used to? Just makes me roll my eyes.

Well, some people actually criticize some things for good reason, even if some things they say don't make much sense like "McNeil is a good Wolverine but he's a bad Piccolo because he sounds too evil".

I guess because Sabat improved with Kai, they think Drummond and McNeil couldn't because they think the latter are inferior actors to the former.

[Lance Freeman]

That's true. To this day I still can't understand why some people who dig his Wolverine hate his Piccolo for sounding evil (he used his Wolverine voice) when Wolverine is a good guy like Piccolo.

It's just people trying to hate on the Ocean dub. There's the prevalent attitude of dissing a thing that's alternative to your favourite thing, almost like your thing is threatened. "those canadian guys threaten our american pride!! must diss them!!"
It's just nonsense; I pay it no mind. Nothing wrong with having a preference, but shitting on these guys' work just because the voice is different from what you're used to? Just makes me roll my eyes.

Well, some people actually criticize some things for good reason, even if some things they say don't make much sense like "McNeil is a good Wolverine but he's a bad Piccolo because he sounds too evil".

I guess because Sabat improved with Kai, they think Drummond and McNeil couldn't because they think the latter are inferior actors to the former.

That criticism doesn't even make sense, since McNeil played one of the most memorable villain-turned-hero roles of the 90s.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I havent seen much of McNeil, but he absolutely NAILED Piccolo's death scene, which was a gentle yet badass moment from someone who embodies both these attributes... Also are there any news on WOW?

[Robo4900]

any news on WOW?

Nope. Allegedly we might get some news in June, though.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

any news on WOW?

Nope. Allegedly we might get some news in June, though.

I'm hoping by June we will get an announcement for WOW TV's launch date and confirmation it will feature Kai. Realistically I don't expect the launch date to be any sooner than September, but maybe if we're lucky (very lucky) they will be able to put the first 3 episodes of Ocean Kai up for streaming as a pilot/preview. Although that's most certainly wishful thinking

[TheGreatness25]

I'm kind of done with this whole Ocean Kai thing. If it's this much like pulling teeth, then it's likely not going to happen. It's as obvious as the nose on someone's face that anyone with any say doesn't want Ocean Kai seeing the light of day, so it likely won't.

As seen by recent events like Toei's public acknowledgement of a Funimation release and Toei mandate that their English subtitles confirm to Funimation's dub names, it's obvious that Toei is endorsing Funimation as their definitive English version. I mean, it always was, but now it's like Toei has gone out of its way to show that.

I doubt that Toei would want to muddy the waters with the Ocean version, when their English version already exists.

On top of that, it's a series that's a decade old and has spent most of that time on ice. Who knows if there's anything more to the series than just a bunch of audio files? Who knows how much edit work remains on the project? Who knows if it even still exists or what condition it's in?

I absolutely loved Ocean Z (even the horrendously mismanaged, rushed portion of the cyborg arc and on), but I'm pretty sure it's dead in the water. And nothing is really making me think otherwise. A new channel in Canada that wants to show anime whose details will be revealed in several months, is not news for me to sink my teeth into. These alleged "negotiations" that go on forever and seemingly go nowhere, do not raise my eyebrow.

I hope I'm wrong, but in my mind, this is never happening.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

As seen by recent events like Toei's public acknowledgement of a Funimation release and Toei mandate that their English subtitles confirm to Funimation's dub names, it's obvious that Toei is endorsing Funimation as their definitive English version. I mean, it always was, but now it's like Toei has gone out of its way to show that.

I doubt that Toei would want to muddy the waters with the Ocean version, when their English version already exists.

I don't think TOEI cares about there being multiple English dubs of Dragon Ball as long as they profit from them. The existence of the Bang Zoom Super dub is enough to prove that. I would argue it would be a bad business move to rule out alternate dubs when they are the better suited or more convenient option. In the case of Kai, since the Funimation dub is old news now it would be ideal for a new channel like Wow TV to go with the Ocean version as its likely to be the better performer on TV because a different version is more likely to renew interest in the show.

Who knows if there's anything more to the series than just a bunch of audio files? Who knows how much edit work remains on the project? Who knows if it even still exists or what condition it's in?

We know from the CRTC database that 98 episodes were fully complete. Also remember the video master is what Nicktoons almost certainly received. There's as much to Ocean Kai as Funi Kai 1.0, all it would take to air is syncing the voice and music tracks to the aforementioned TV master. I'm taking Lisa Yamatoya's confirmation TOEI had the 98 episodes as evidence they still have the whole thing. It would also be totally foolish for anyone to destroy a dormant asset just like that. It will more than likely be preserved on a hard drive at least until it airs.

[SaiyamanMS]

As seen by recent events like Toei's public acknowledgement of a Funimation release and Toei mandate that their English subtitles confirm to Funimation's dub names, it's obvious that Toei is endorsing Funimation as their definitive English version. I mean, it always was, but now it's like Toei has gone out of its way to show that.

The original Ocean dub used the exact same names as the Funimation dub. (After all, the original Texas Funi dub was a continuation of the Ocean dub.) Though the impression I got is that Funi didn’t choose the localised names so much as they just went with localisations provided by Toei back in the day. Which means that Toei have probably always had these names on their internal English materials.

[Robo4900]

I'm kind of done with this whole Ocean Kai thing. If it's this much like pulling teeth, then it's likely not going to happen. It's as obvious as the nose on someone's face that anyone with any say doesn't want Ocean Kai seeing the light of day, so it likely won't.

You say "like pulling teeth".
It was a death by apathy; simply a case of no network picking the product up. Until Wow, that is. And they're very interested.

As seen by recent events like Toei's public acknowledgement of a Funimation release and Toei mandate that their English subtitles confirm to Funimation's dub names, it's obvious that Toei is endorsing Funimation as their definitive English version. I mean, it always was, but now it's like Toei has gone out of its way to show that.

I doubt that Toei would want to muddy the waters with the Ocean version, when their English version already exists.

Toei don't give a flying fuck. They'll help promote any release that has any chance of making money, and the names being conformed doesn't affect this, as Ocean have always used the same names as Funi for the ones that have been pushed by Toei.

Something you seem to have missed: Lisa Yamatoya, head of Toei USA, shared an email with SX10 a while back; she suggested Wow pick the version with 167 HD epsiodes instead of just 98 in standard-def, but if Wow want a particular version of Kai, they can have it.

And, as the final nail in the coffin to this ridiculous idea; there's some indication that Ocean's is their English version, as in Ocean's dub was produced by Toei.
Remember, Ocean provide services of script adaptation, voice acting, scoring, editing, etc., but they must be hired to do this by another company. So, to do a Kai dub, Ocean would have to be hired by someone with the necessary rights to produce and distribute a Dragon Ball dub. In this case, it looks like Toei was most likely behind this. Chances are, this was because then any markets that would prefer Ocean's work over Funi's would have an option they've had a history of preferring, likely a cheaper option (it was produced cut, they likely actually made money on the editing portion since Funi licensed their TV edit, the music would be cheaper than licensing the Japanese score, etc. etc.), and this would likely be more profitable for Toei than simply selling Funi's work on and taking royalties.

But Toei didn't realise that no territories outside the USA would actually be all that interested in airing Kai, and Kix ended up picking Funi's dub.

On top of that, it's a series that's a decade old and has spent most of that time on ice. Who knows if there's anything more to the series than just a bunch of audio files? Who knows how much edit work remains on the project? Who knows if it even still exists or what condition it's in?

We know pretty definitively that it's a finished product; all 98 episodes were completed and ready to air as of April 2014. The only reason it hasn't seen the light of day is simply that no channel has elected to air it.
It feels like there's been some kind of snub because we, the fans, have seen rumours of chances appear and disappear, and it's taken on this mythical status, but literally all that's happened is no channel's been interested until Wow.

Any ideas of any kind of backdoor dealings, preference from Toei, whatever is just people thinking up rumours from thin air to try to explain the apathy Canada and the UK has had for anime for so long, not helped by Kix UK picking Funi Kai, against the word of a couple of leakers who'd have no reason to know what's going on at Kix, even if they have an in on the industry in the voice acting side, which they used to drum themselves up as big deals.

I absolutely loved Ocean Z (even the horrendously mismanaged, rushed portion of the cyborg arc and on), but I'm pretty sure it's dead in the water. And nothing is really making me think otherwise. A new channel in Canada that wants to show anime whose details will be revealed in several months, is not news for me to sink my teeth into. These alleged "negotiations" that go on forever and seemingly go nowhere, do not raise my eyebrow.

I hope I'm wrong, but in my mind, this is never happening.

They're launching a new channel, mate. You can't expect them to keep us up to date on every tiny bit of progress in the negotiation for one show.

Maybe it goes south and we don't get the show. We've had no indication that anything's going wrong though, so suddenly souring on this whole thing now is... Well, it's certainly an odd position to take.

[Super Sayian Prime]

You're free to give up hope or do anything else you want. The fact is, the dub is the closest it's ever been to actually being released. Nothing is guaranteed, but the fact that Wow pushed back their channel launch specifically because they wanted more time to cement programming partnerships, does raise my optimism a bit. We know they've been talking with Toei and Ocean. I certainly have concerns about potential roadblocks, like whether or not Kai can stream on an independent SVOD service (because I think aggregating content is a key reason behind Wow's channel launch) like Crave, if the lack of HD materials is a big issue (it shouldn't be because the channel being rebranded is only available in SD right now), and the reality that this might be seen as a dead-end production. It would be nice to think the dub airing could provoke the powers that be to fund more with Ocean, but that's multiple steps ahead of where we're at.

By the way, at this point, I'd say Wow's TV channel is a September launch now. If it was planned for next month, we'd already know when it would happen.

I don't think TOEI cares about there being multiple English dubs of Dragon Ball as long as they profit from them. The existence of the Bang Zoom Super dub is enough to prove that. I would argue it would be a bad business move to rule out alternate dubs when they are the better suited or more convenient option. In the case of Kai, since the Funimation dub is old news now it would be ideal for a new channel like Wow TV to go with the Ocean version as its likely to be the better performer on TV because a different version is more likely to renew interest in the show.

I agree. Dragon Ball Super: Broly is getting another LATAM Spanish dub. As long as the money rolls in, I don't think Toei cares. That applies to many of their business practises.

And, as the final nail in the coffin to this ridiculous idea; there's some indication that Ocean's is their English version, as in Ocean's dub was produced by Toei.

Remember, Ocean provide services of script adaptation, voice acting, scoring, editing, etc., but they must be hired to do this by another company. So, to do a Kai dub, Ocean would have to be hired by someone with the necessary rights to produce and distribute a Dragon Ball dub. In this case, it looks like Toei was most likely behind this. Chances are, this was because then any markets that would prefer Ocean's work over Funi's would have an option they've had a history of preferring, likely a cheaper option (it was produced cut, they likely actually made money on the editing portion since Funi licensed their TV edit, the music would be cheaper than licensing the Japanese score, etc. etc.), and this would likely be more profitable for Toei than simply selling Funi's work on and taking royalties.

There are multiple indications Toei produced this dub. They've worked with Ocean a few times in the past, like with Pretty Cure and the phantom dub of World Trigger. We'll probably never know for certain unless someone from Toei or Ocean's corporate side says something.

But Toei didn't realise that no territories outside the USA would actually be all that interested in airing Kai

I wouldn't say that. IIRC Canada is like the only primarily English-speaking country to not have a local broadcaster run Kai on TV. Oceania and South East Asia got it on Cartoon Network, the U.S. had it on Nicktoons/The CW/Cartoon Network/Adult Swim and the U.K. saw it air on Kix. Of those four markets, only the last one was somewhere Ocean's work was primarily aired.

Part of me wonders if the Kix snub was a result of ignorance from Toei Europe. They seldom sell shows onto U.K. television and given they're based in France, I doubt they're aware of the intricacies of English Dragon Ball dubs.

[jochs]

Some concern is still warranted IMO. I think it's safe to say Marni 100% wants Dragon Ball Kai on their channel at this point, and if they can't get the Ocean Dub, they will probably will still pursue FUNi's dub and ultimately it will be aired on their channel thus putting the nail in the coffin for the prospects of getting this dub on TV in Canada, even if others have pointed out other channels in Canada looking for anime. This whole thing really is kind of a gamble.

[Robo4900]

Some concern is still warranted IMO. I think it's safe to say Marni 100% wants Dragon Ball Kai on their channel at this point, and if they can't get the Ocean Dub, they will probably will still pursue FUNi's dub and ultimately it will be aired on their channel thus putting the nail in the coffin for the prospects of getting this dub on TV in Canada, even if others have pointed out other channels in Canada looking for anime. This whole thing really is kind of a gamble.

Marni Shulman knows we want Ocean's Kai dub. I have the utmost faith that she will see to it that we get that version, if Kai is workable at all.

Realistically, the only real roadblock I can forsee would be, as Super Saiyan Prime pointed out, streaming. And that would be an issue with either version of Kai, given Toei's attitudes. But given how things changed with Super getting streams, and the fact Kai is an older show, even this may not be much of an issue.

Part of me wonders if the Kix snub was a result of ignorance from Toei Europe. They seldom sell shows onto U.K. television and given they're based in France, I doubt they're aware of the intricacies of English Dragon Ball dubs.

Makes a lot of sense. That's probably what went on.
I do wonder if that would go differently now, since Ocean Kai has finished production (back then, in ~2010(?), it would have still been in-progress).

It would be nice to think the dub airing could provoke the powers that be to fund more with Ocean, but that's multiple steps ahead of where we're at.

Y'know, I think if we really want to see Ocean do a TFC dub, we should see what we can do about pushing for a Toonami UK revival, with Ocean Kai as a headliner.
I could imagine there being a possibility of Toei bringing Ocean back to do TFC if Kai 1.0 is successful enough on Wow, but I feel like the chance would be far greater with two territories doing Ocean's version, rather than just the one.

As you say, this is thinking quite far ahead, but if anyone has any ideas on something we could do about trying to push for a Toonami UK revival with Ocean Kai having some presence on the network, it's probably something worth talking about while we wait for the Wow situation to move forward.

[Super Sayian Prime]

I found out recently that Imports Dragon is Bandai's Canadian toy distributor. If we're ever in need of another company to pursue, they might be someone worth looking into. It seems they've initiated (paid for?) a number of TV deals up here, from things like Robocar Poli, Shopkins, and Dino Froze to the Gormiti reboot.