Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:10 pm

Planetnamek wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:44 pm
TheBlackPaladin wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:33 am
TheGreatness25 wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:12 pm
Why would anyone even start this project -- let alone finish it -- without getting those basics out of the way?
That is a wonderful question. As in, you're right, it's a question that should have been figured out beforehand...but, to my utter bafflement, wasn't. Somebody (it's not clear who--yet another question!) literally paid for the dub if a 99-episode TV series. In other words, not only did they pay for the actors, they paid for the director(s), the recording engineers, music composers, and English script writers. All for a dub that will not be seen.

As I've said before, I would totally understand if they paid to have a few episodes dubbed before a deal was secured. Firstly because it would give them something to show interested TV/streaming networks so the networks didn't have to air a show based on blind faith, and secondly because they could then say, "And hey, if you want to start airing it now, go ahead--we've already got a few episodes done." But to literally dub the whole damn show before a deal was secured? Pretty staggering from a financial perspective.

With all that out of the way, though...even though it's still staggering to me, I have since learned it's not that unusual. I took a class on dub script writing not too long ago, and it was taught by a veteran dub director who revealed to me and the rest of the students that, apparently, this happens semi-frequently. He said he has personally directed at least a dozen, fully-produced dubs that never saw the light of day, and by virtue of having a lot of friends in the dubbing community, he's heard of many others through the grapevine. It's hard to fathom, but apparently there are a lot of crazy-rich people in show biz who literally have the money to finance an entire dub and then decide after it's done that they're not interested anymore.
If I was rich, I wonder if I could possibly be able to get season 4 of GX and all of the undubbed episodes of 5DS dubbed in English by the 4Kids voice casts? Man that would be so cool.
You need to think about your priorities, sir. If you were rich, your first priority should be to buy the rights to the Ocean dub of Kai. :lol:
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:56 am

Well we know from SX10 that the company behind this dub was Ocean themselves, as for who paid for all 98 episodes to be completed in full - my guess would be Ken Morrison. Luckily it may not have been as expensive as other unreleased dubs. Ocean's video edit aired on Nicktoons so Funimation would have had to pay them for it. Keenlyside and Mitchell's score, if it wasn't recycled from other shows again it may well have been used on shows that were created after Kai.

Sadly the fact Final Chapters wasn't dubbed shows that clearly whatever Kai cost wasn't worth the investment to keep going further, although if they had that Ocean probably would have had more luck getting a TV/streaming deal as TOEI probably would have allowed them dub Super, which they could have dubbed a few episodes for a network and perhaps released both Super and Kai from there.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:23 am

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:56 am
Sadly the fact Final Chapters wasn't dubbed shows that clearly whatever Kai cost wasn't worth the investment to keep going further, although if they had that Ocean probably would have had more luck getting a TV/streaming deal as TOEI probably would have allowed them dub Super, which they could have dubbed a few episodes for a network and perhaps released both Super and Kai from there.
The lack of a TFC dub says precisely zilch, if you ask me.

No one has picked up Kai 1.0, so why would Ocean invest the money in dubbing its sequel?
If they get a deal for Kai 1.0, and then they fail to do anything with TFC, that's the time to come to a conclusion about that... If we ever get a release of their Kai 1.0 dub, that is.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:36 am

Y'know.......since I'm beyond confident that we'll never see this dub, I'll just throw this out there as a suggestion. For all the talk about reaching out to Ocean, Canadian TV networks, and others....

..........might it be worthwhile to just...ask FUNimation to release it themselves?

I know there can sometimes be bitter divides among fandom over which of the two casts were better-suited for DBZ, and YouTube has no shortage of dub comparison videos, but at the same time, that's mostly where the "FUNimation VS Ocean battle" lives: on the internet among fans. In real life, they don't hate one another as many fans seem to assume they do. Sure, there have been some tense interactions here and there, but for the most part the Ocean and FUNimation casts have treated each other with nothing but respect. I mean, heck, it was Chris Sabat himself who approached Brian Drummond about playing Clone Vegeta for the Super dub. It was also FUNimation's idea to release the "Rock the Dragon" box set of the original Ocean dub, and as has been well-documented, Ocean worked in tandem with FUNimation on the video edits for the TV broadcast of FUNimation's Kai dub.

Make no mistake, I'm under no illusion that that's likely to work. It's almost guaranteed not to work. However, at this point we're firmly entrenched in "what have we got to lose?"-territory, and for all the reasons this may not work, a bad relationship between FUNimation and Ocean is not one of them. They seem to have a fairly decent relationship.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by NitroEX » Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:59 am

TheBlackPaladin wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:36 am
Y'know.......since I'm beyond confident that we'll never see this dub, I'll just throw this out there as a suggestion. For all the talk about reaching out to Ocean, Canadian TV networks, and others....

..........might it be worthwhile to just...ask FUNimation to release it themselves?

I know there can sometimes be bitter divides among fandom over which of the two casts were better-suited for DBZ, and YouTube has no shortage of dub comparison videos, but at the same time, that's mostly where the "FUNimation VS Ocean battle" lives: on the internet among fans. In real life, they don't hate one another as many fans seem to assume they do. Sure, there have been some tense interactions here and there, but for the most part the Ocean and FUNimation casts have treated each other with nothing but respect. I mean, heck, it was Chris Sabat himself who approached Brian Drummond about playing Clone Vegeta for the Super dub. It was also FUNimation's idea to release the "Rock the Dragon" box set of the original Ocean dub, and as has been well-documented, Ocean worked in tandem with FUNimation on the video edits for the TV broadcast of FUNimation's Kai dub.

Make no mistake, I'm under no illusion that that's likely to work. It's almost guaranteed not to work. However, at this point we're firmly entrenched in "what have we got to lose?"-territory, and for all the reasons this may not work, a bad relationship between FUNimation and Ocean is not one of them. They seem to have a fairly decent relationship.
Call me a pessimist but I think that's overly optimistic.

The companies did have a working relationship post Saban but as far as I can tell there's no evidence of that continuing after Kai 1.0 as Boo Kai had no trace of their involvement and the choice to recast and redub Escaflowne adds to the theory that their working relationship has since dissolved. From my perspective, it seems like Funi has essentially replaced their services with Bang Zoom at this point (who are in many ways their direct competitors) and although that's mostly speculation, there's at least some observable evidence for it with that relationship building over time vs a diminishing one with Ocean.

Also, the idea that "the Ocean and FUNimation casts have treated each other with nothing but respect" seems exaggerated from my perspective. We've had contradicting anecdotes come out in recent years from Ocean alumni like Peter Kelamis, Kirby Morrow and Jason Gray-Stanford in regards to Funimation actors like Schemmel and Justin Cook making life difficult for them in regards to anime conventions which... was clearly petty behaviour, and not something you do if you have nothing but respect for them. And it could also point to evidence of that culture being seen as acceptable behind closed doors at Funimation (I seem to remember Chris Rager being vocal about other dubs on social media, albeit not Ocean's). But sure, on the other hand, you can instead look at Sabat as a shining example of a Funi actor who has shown respect to the Canadian cast, and I commend him for that, but at the same time, how do we know he isn't just doing those things out of his own self-interest? Giving up Copy Vegeta was no skin off his back, and the move earned him (and the show) good PR and a potential rating boost. It was a smart business move to drum up attention more than anything personal. As far as I can tell Sabat is a smart businessman and an opportunist. After all, the man once admitted in a newspaper that he was responsible for convincing Funi to move recording from Vancouver to Texas in the first place, which lead to him acting & directing for Funi and even setting up his own recording studio and making lots of money from DBZ games among other things. And while on that subject, he's gotten TFS actors to do cameos on at least one game, theoretically he could do the same for an Ocean actor but I somehow don't see that ever happening.

Until Sabat decides to champion the cause of getting us Westwood, Ocean Kai and other English dubs available publicly on streaming or home release then I'll remain a healthy sceptic. He's always had influence at Funimation and has a better chance than any of us do of making that a reality, but I already know he will likely never try to do that because it doesn't benefit him.

As for the Rock the Dragon box set, I don't see that as much of a celebration of the past. Moreso just a calculated business move on Funi's part to have one last chance to exploit the Saban dub on DVD before DVD became old news. Pioneer were the company previously distributing the stuff before them, and Funi presumably wanted more profit from a fully internal release of their own material this time, and they certainly weren't going to spend money "remastering" the edited visuals for HD formats, so it made sense. And unlike the later Ocean dubs (Westwood, Blue Water and Ocean Kai) they legally owned the Saban dub and could sell it with virtually no cost on their part. They didn't even spring for cast interviews, commentary tracks, trailers and promos... Nothing extra was done for it except for a cheap booklet. Compare that to their season set and anniversary releases which go to great lengths to stroke their own egos with interviews and video packages designed to congratulate themselves over Z's success in the US, it's a night and day difference.

Oh, and the uncut Pioneer dub tracks are nowhere to be found on their main releases of the first three films. Does that seem like something they would do if they genuinely wanted to promote their classic cast? I could go on but I won't bother as I think it's fairly obvious that it's all cynically business driven with them, and they probably have no care for the Canadian versions. But it's safe to assume they are very aware of those other dubs already.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:24 pm

I’d imagine that not only is there not much of a financial incentive for Sabat or anyone else at FUNimation to push for this or the Westwood and Blue Water dubs to get released on streaming or home video, but that doing so would directly be detrimental to them. Like all businesses, FUNimation’s goal is to make money, and doing things that could potentially lose them money would not be a smart business move.

Besides that, even if they decided to go the extra mile and do that, I assume that Toei would need to approve of it first, and I’m not even sure if they would agree to that.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by 90sDBZ » Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:18 pm

NitroEX wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:59 am
Also, the idea that "the Ocean and FUNimation casts have treated each other with nothing but respect" seems exaggerated from my perspective. We've had contradicting anecdotes come out in recent years from Ocean alumni like Peter Kelamis, Kirby Morrow and Jason Gray-Stanford in regards to Funimation actors like Schemmel and Justin Cook making life difficult for them in regards to anime conventions which... was clearly petty behaviour, and not something you do if you have nothing but respect for them. And it could also point to evidence of that culture being seen as acceptable behind closed doors at Funimation (I seem to remember Chris Rager being vocal about other dubs on social media, albeit not Ocean's). But sure, on the other hand, you can instead look at Sabat as a shining example of a Funi actor who has shown respect to the Canadian cast, and I commend him for that, but at the same time, how do we know he isn't just doing those things out of his own self-interest? Giving up Copy Vegeta was no skin off his back, and the move earned him (and the show) good PR and a potential rating boost. It was a smart business move to drum up attention more than anything personal. As far as I can tell Sabat is a smart businessman and an opportunist. After all, the man once admitted in a newspaper that he was responsible for convincing Funi to move recording from Vancouver to Texas in the first place, which lead to him acting & directing for Funi and even setting up his own recording studio and making lots of money from DBZ games among other things. And while on that subject, he's gotten TFS actors to do cameos on at least one game, theoretically he could do the same for an Ocean actor but I somehow don't see that ever happening.

Until Sabat decides to champion the cause of getting us Westwood, Ocean Kai and other English dubs available publicly on streaming or home release then I'll remain a healthy sceptic. He's always had influence at Funimation and has a better chance than any of us do of making that a reality, but I already know he will likely never try to do that because it doesn't benefit him.
I'll give you the stuff about Sean and the other Goku's, but you're being way too cynical with Chris Sabat. He's a guy who genuinely cares about the fans.

Him getting Drummond to do Copy Vegeta just to boost ratings for 3 episodes? I'm not convinced. He posted on twitter at the time referring to Drummond as "The badass who voiced Vegeta in 1996". He even said at kamehacon that he owes his career to the Ocean cast, and said he'd be a nobody if it weren't for them doing those first 2 Seasons. What could he possibly stand to gain from saying that? His attitude has been nothing but humble.

And I don't know why you're blaming him for the lack of release for the later Canadian dubs. Unlike the Saban dub, those dubs never even aired in the US, so expecting Sabat to convince Funimation to release them isn't realistic.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by NitroEX » Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:24 pm

90sDBZ wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:18 pm
I'll give you the stuff about Sean and the other Goku's, but you're being way too cynical with Chris Sabat. He's a guy who genuinely cares about the fans.

Him getting Drummond to do Copy Vegeta just to boost ratings for 3 episodes? I'm not convinced. He posted on twitter at the time referring to Drummond as "The badass who voiced Vegeta in 1996". He even said at kamehacon that he owes his career to the Ocean cast, and said he'd be a nobody if it weren't for them doing those first 2 Seasons. What could he possibly stand to gain from saying that? His attitude has been nothing but humble.

And I don't know why you're blaming him for the lack of release for the later Canadian dubs. Unlike the Saban dub, those dubs never even aired in the US, so expecting Sabat to convince Funimation to release them isn't realistic.
I don't see how I'm blaming him for the lack of a Canadian dub release, I have zero expectation that Funimation would ever release the Canadian dubs in the first place. But since that subject came up as an alternative option, I'm simply pointing out he has enough influence within the company, and could theoretically talk to the higher-ups and try to sell them on the idea... All of which is true, but also very unlikely to happen based on past history.

And as I said, I commend Sabat for his public praise of the Canadian cast, but if he does nothing behind the scenes to actually get fans more of their work then it's just lip service at the end of the day which doesn't mean much. Actions speak louder than words and that's what I prefer to judge rather than things which could easily be motivated by business or public image.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:22 pm

NitroEX wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:59 am
As far as I can tell Sabat is a smart businessman and an opportunist. After all, the man once admitted in a newspaper that he was responsible for convincing Funi to move recording from Vancouver to Texas in the first place,
Except, that’s not accurate. He was hired when they were casting for Sleeping Princess in Devil’s Castle, the decision to fire the Vancouver cast in favor of recording locally was being made before he was hired. All he actually did was convince Barry Watson they didn’t need to look past the Denton Fort Worth area for talent when hiring for season 3 i.e no need to go scouting in California to find talent to record in Fort Worth.

And while on that subject, he's gotten TFS actors to do cameos on at least one game, theoretically he could do the same for an Ocean actor but I somehow don't see that ever happening.
As far as I know the members of TFS excluding MasakoX (who I don’t think was in any Funimation product?) are from Texas. Easier to get them than actors based in Vancouver.
Until Sabat decides to champion the cause of getting us Westwood, Ocean Kai and other English dubs available publicly on streaming or home release then I'll remain a healthy sceptic.
Does Funimation have access to any of those though?
They might but it seems like something that would have to go through Toei.

As for the Rock the Dragon box set, I don't see that as much of a celebration of the past. Moreso just a calculated business move on Funi's part to have one last chance to exploit the Saban dub on DVD before DVD became old news. Pioneer were the company previously distributing the stuff before them, and Funi presumably wanted more profit from a fully internal release of their own material this time, and they certainly weren't going to spend money "remastering" the edited visuals for HD formats, so it made sense. And unlike the later Ocean dubs (Westwood, Blue Water and Ocean Kai) they legally owned the Saban dub and could sell it with virtually no cost on their part. They didn't even spring for cast interviews, commentary tracks, trailers and promos... Nothing extra was done for it except for a cheap booklet. Compare that to their season set and anniversary releases which go to great lengths to stroke their own egos with interviews and video packages designed to congratulate themselves over Z's success in the US, it's a night and day difference.
They also carefully made sure to distance themselves from that version. Even though the inspiration behind it was “People are nostalgic for the edited dub they watched on Toonami” they only released the portion dubbed by the Ocean cast, even though it should have been the entire 276 episode shebang. Far as I can tell Funimation wants to distance themselves from being directly responsible for “the ocean dub” and treat their original in-house broadcast dub as an illusion.
Oh, and the uncut Pioneer dub tracks are nowhere to be found on their main releases of the first three films. Does that seem like something they would do if they genuinely wanted to promote their classic cast? I could go on but I won't bother as I think it's fairly obvious that it's all cynically business driven with them, and they probably have no care for the Canadian versions. But it's safe to assume they are very aware of those other dubs already.
I’ve always found it completely unnecessary to redub those movies in the first place since they were already uncut and the whole point of the Ultimate Uncut line was to have a full uncut release that wasn’t originally possible when the home video rights for the edited episodes were tied up with Pioneer.

The fact they also refuse to redub Sleeping Princess despite it sounding like complete and total ass and not featuring either of their main Gokus or Bulmas makes it all the worse.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by Dark Vegeta-Sama » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:52 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:22 pm
NitroEX wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:59 am
As far as I can tell Sabat is a smart businessman and an opportunist. After all, the man once admitted in a newspaper that he was responsible for convincing Funi to move recording from Vancouver to Texas in the first place,
Except, that’s not accurate. He was hired when they were casting for Sleeping Princess in Devil’s Castle, the decision to fire the Vancouver cast in favor of recording locally was being made before he was hired. All he actually did was convince Barry Watson they didn’t need to look past the Denton Fort Worth area for talent when hiring for season 3 i.e no need to go scouting in California to find talent to record in Fort Worth.
While I'm always open to seeing new information, that's really not how it came across in the January 2000 Dallas Observer article, and I'm more inclined to believe an impartial source from the time rather than someone's convenient "recollection" for the sake of plausible deniability two decades later.
Although FUNimation was incorporated in Fort Worth, the company has been using area voice talent for only a year. Prior to that, producer and voice director Barry Watson would fly to Canada to supervise loops at a Vancouver studio that handled some 300 animated shows a year. With executive offices in California and licensing headquarters in Alabama, Watson and crew began to feel as though they were being jerked all over the North American map. Shipping delays began to affect the rate at which Americanized versions of Dragonball Z could be recorded and mixed.

The decision was made to consolidate in Fort Worth (although licenses are still sold out of Alabama). Initially, Watson says, there was some trepidation. "There were a shaky few weeks here while we surveyed the scene," he notes.
The new vocal talent are stage actors, standup comics, singers, librarians, even mothers from Denton, Fort Worth, and Dallas whom FUNimation casting director Chris Sabat enlists for characters both major and minor. He actually does about 20 different characters and is the only on-staff voice talent for the show. He insists he was instrumental in convincing Barry Watson and FUNimation that all the vocal chops they required could be found in the surrounding area. They began recording Texas voices in February 1999, and those shows, Dragonball Z's third season and its first post-Saban episodes with the Cartoon Network, began airing last September.

"The fans are just beginning to get over the shock of the voices being changed," Sabat says. "I think you'll find the e-mail starting to shift in the positive direction. I mean, in some ways, I can sympathize with the fans. When they changed actors on The Dukes of Hazzard because Tom Wopat -- God bless him -- thought he was going to start a singing career, I was pissed."
It's worth pointing out that we know Chris Sabat started working for FUNimation in 1997. The FUNi/Pioneer/Ocean dub of DBZ movie 1 was released in December 1997. The dubs of DBZ movies 2 and 3 were released (in reverse order) in March 1998 and May 1998, by which time Sabat was already working for FUNimation for a year or so.

FUNi's in-house dub of Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle was released on VHS in December 1998.

Are we seriously to think that it took them over 12-18 months to record, produce, and release that piece of shit dub, and that they were hiring for casting purposes long before the Pioneer/Ocean dubs of the movies were even released?

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:29 pm

(I know you told me that you worked in radio and then found out about an opening to voice a character) I was wondering what character that was? For what show? How did you get the position of Voice Director?
As I said earlier, I was living and working in Denton. I met many incredible people there. One of them, and I'll refer to her by her cyber-tag, Agent Mai ( some of the Internet hounds know who she is ) was working for FUNimation and told me that they were holding auditions for a Dragon Ball movie "Sleeping Princess In Devil's Castle". I was cast for the parts of Yamcha and Igor. A couple months later I was called to help the Producer/Director cast and schedule a new band of actors -- the current cast of Dragon Ball Z. Trying to find voice matches for the Canadian cast was one heck of a task, and we must have auditioned over 500 people. When production kicked in, I started as an Assistant Voice Director under Barry Watson and eventually started directing the episodes myself.
Source:
https://www.angelfire.com/dbz/somerando ... chris.html



He was hired by Funimation when they held auditions for Sleeping Princess in Devil’s Castle. Ergo the decision to ditch the Vancouver cast was made before he was hired. Again his “convincing Barry to hire all talent in Texas” was just in regards to who they would hire now that production had been moved to Fort Worth.


- Barry and/or Gen decide to cut cost by moving ADR production to Fort Worth and hold open auditions for Sleeping Princess in Devil’s Castle to be the first “in-house dub”

-“Agent Mai” tells Sabat of the auditions and he gets the role of Yamcha and Igor

- Sabat gets contacted to help with the audition process for season 3. He convinces Barry they can find all the talent they need in Fort Worth (actual recording in Texas was going to happen regardless of Sabat)

Yes SPiDC wasn’t released until December 1998 and Sabat was hired (again for Sleeping Princess! in 1997) but it didn’t actually take them that long to produce the movie. They probably had it on hold for a while.

This isn’t unheard of. Dubbing for the Ultimate Uncut redub was completed by March 2004 https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2004/03/09/f ... m-megacon/

Despite not getting released until over a year later because finishing GT’s home video release was the immediate priority.



Season 2, the 3 Pioneer movies, and Sleeping Princess were all produced in 1997 . The fact that Sleeping Princess wasn’t released until the very end of 1998 was most likely to make sure everything with the Vancouver cast was released first. They probably wanted to prepare fans that a new cast was taking over.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by NitroEX » Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:35 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:22 pm
Except, that’s not accurate. He was hired when they were casting for Sleeping Princess in Devil’s Castle, the decision to fire the Vancouver cast in favor of recording locally was being made before he was hired. All he actually did was convince Barry Watson they didn’t need to look past the Denton Fort Worth area for talent when hiring for season 3 i.e no need to go scouting in California to find talent to record in Fort Worth.
Dark Vegeta-Sama already responded to this but I will add that Sabat was (according to Dale Kelly) the only salaried actor at Funimation for a long time and, along with him being granted directing and casting duties very early on I've always assumed he had a greater relationship and role behind the scenes than some of his other peers at the time. It's speculation on my part but it might lend weight to the idea that he was around longer than just his initial voice roles. And as for California, I'm not sure that would have been a more enticing option for Funi back then because I believe Vancouver was actually seen as one of the cheaper options for voice over and acting work in those days due to the currency exchange, though I could be off on that.
MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:22 pm
As far as I know the members of TFS excluding MasakoX (who I don’t think was in any Funimation product?) are from Texas. Easier to get them than actors based in Vancouver.
That's not really a good excuse in the modern age. Drummond recorded Copy Vegeta remotely and the new Inuyasha dub appears to be a co-production with Vancouver and LA actors recording from separate locations. A lot of pro actors have home set ups too. Point is, if the parties involved wanted something like that, I'm sure it could be arranged.
Does Funimation have access to any of those though?
They might but it seems like something that would have to go through Toei.
No, they don't have access to those dubs like they do with the Saban and Pioneer stuff. Although, Schemmel did speak about hearing some version of Kai's Ocean dub in the very early days (or at least the music and sound effects track) so you never know. Funi would most likely have to approve it by Toei (and maybe track it down from Ocean themselves if Toei doesn't have it for whatever reason) but I was talking about it more in the sense of him supporting the idea of these other versions being released rather than simply remaining quiet on the subject. I don't realistically see it ever happening.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:43 pm

NitroEX wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:35 pm
[. It's speculation on my part but it might lend weight to the idea that he was around longer than just his initial voice roles.
See the interview I linked to where Sabat explains he was hired for Sleeping Princess and then promoted to more creative involvement before it came time to hire for season 3

And as for California, I'm not sure that would have been a more enticing option for Funi back then because I believe Vancouver was actually seen as one of the cheaper options for voice over and acting work in those days due to the currency exchange, though I could be off on that.
California was an example. My point was Funimation had made the decision to move ADR production to Fort Worth, Texas. Sabat just convinced them they didn’t need to look beyond that area to find voice actors when they were holding auditions for season 3, because again they already had decided to lay off the Ocean Group cast before Sabat was even hired.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:26 am

Even if someone tried to talk Sabat into pulling some strings I have my doubts Funimation would even consider releasing the Canadian dubs. Even with the broadcast audio Sabat said he would do what he can, yet it wasn't featured on the 30th anniversary Blu-Rays. Now we don't know whether or not it was TOEI or Funimation that rejected the idea, but let's make no mistake Sabat is still just an actor, albeit a very humble and respectful one at that.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:25 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:23 am
I never cared about a network picking it up, honestly. I don't think that would benefit most people short of having it saved and shared online like what happened with the original Z dub (except, y'know, now it won't sound horrible because technology has changed). But I don't see why it can't be added for streaming. It honestly could potentially not cost them anything (no merchandise production costs). The only issue is: which streaming service would pay the owner(s) for the rights to stream it? If the owner(s) made it super cheap, it could happen. The owner(s) themselves could just put it out there on YouTube or their own website, for example, for free (to them) and require a payment per episode.

The point is that it's the 21st freaking century, so if they wanted it out there, it would be out there. Holding out and blaming the lack of a network deal is a grossly eye-rolling excuse. I could go online right now and post a video of myself staring at a wall -- don't tell me that they don't have a means to distribute it.

If it comes down to money, then look -- you people aren't making crap off of it now anyway. Might as well put it up on YouTube or your own website for $2 an episode or whatever. I'm sorry if it won't be the multi-million dollar TV deal that you were looking for, but keeping it in a vault for 10 years isn't helping its worth.

And that is why I think that it's a dead project. I think they recorded lines from the cast -- maybe not even the entire cast -- and maybe never actually put the finishing touches on it. It could just be a collection of audio files on seone's computer. Either way, I think it's dead and it was a nice dream while it lasted. Thanks for the tease.
No one's pushing for a TV broadcast because they're nostalgic for 2002. It's the only thing focused on because It was the most realistic option. Unless we had a huge amount of supporters, no global streaming services would give us the time of day. If they were to pick up Kai, they would almost certainly use Funimation's dub. However, there's no indication Kai is even allowed to stream. It's never been on Hulu, Netflix or even Funimation's website. The only internet distribution that series has seen was through some TV channel's catch up services and DTO on Amazon, iTunes, etc. Funimation's dub already being on the latter could prevent Ocean's from releasing there.

Given Manga UK and Pop are now both related to Funimation, that market is a dead-end for this dub. We've knocked on as many doors as possible in the Canadian broadcast industry. There are two regional streaming services, but one doesn't know what anime is and the other's scant collection is courtesy of someone who knows our interest. Of course, that's all irrelevant if they're not allowed to stream Kai.
TheGreatness25 wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:08 am
It just seems insane to me. And financially irresponsible. I understand dubbing -- let say -- 25+ episodes because once it gets the green light, you want to be able to go from the start. But 99 episodes? That's lunacy.

I'm just curious who this was, honestly. Also, I mentioned earlier that these could've been just audio files on someone's computer and not synced up, etc. and NitroEX pointed out that it was certified by the CRTC. I mean... couldn't they just do a pilot episode or a handful of them for that certification? I honestly cannot imagine how anyone with any sort of real experience would do all of that with to the end without any means of profiting off of the series. This was a project that has literally lost them money that they have no way of recouping. And knowing ahead of time that they didn't secure a distribution (AT LEAST) deal and still going through with it, means that someone irresponsibly failed to mitigate those losses.

Just sounds like really stupid business practice.

Now, they're out here shopping for a TV deal -- 21st century, they're looking for a TV deal rather than streaming... -- 10 years after the fact on a property that has already been fully dubbed in the same language and is more easily accessible than herpes. No kidding they didn't have luck. Kai itself at this point is kind of a dead property. I'm really down that it didn't get released, but I realize that there would be such a tiny niche audience for this, that it really doesn't warrant any real financial investment by TV companies.
The CRTC filing specifically mentions that 98 episodes were submitted.

Yes, dubbing that amount of material for an audience of none is a waste of money. However, it's highly likely this dub's video footage was used as the basis for Funimation's TV version, which was then adapted into other languages. Some return was made off of that investment. If Toei were the ones paying for Ocean's dub, they're likely indifferent to the lost money. This is a company that sat on World Trigger's dub for years after it aired on an obscure U.S. channel. If the new season hadn't been greenlit, it's possible that dub would still be in the vault. They're in no rush to make money off of the dub of the original Pretty Cure or other properties, either. Too rich to care.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by TheGreatness25 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:53 am

I just have one question: what makes anyone think that FUNimation used the would-be Ocean dub footage for broadcast TV?

I don't know; this entire thing sounds asinine (from their perspective). And if that is the case, then it just sounds like a rich person's pet fan project. So just go ahead and "leak" it. Or try to reach a deal with Funimation because this thing is dead, which brutally sucks.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by 90sDBZ » Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:07 am

Super Saiyan Prime wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:25 am
However, it's highly likely this dub's video footage was used as the basis for Funimation's TV version, which was then adapted into other languages.
It would be interesting to know the exact timeline of this dub in relation to Funimation's. They both go back to at least 2010, although I remember reading on here that Brian Drummond didn't finish recording Vegeta until a few years later (was it 2013?). I definitely remember him tweeting about it at some point, and being surprised he'd only just finished then.

The Westwood dub was an interesting situation where Ocean started off well behind Funimation, but eventually caught up and even passed them right before the end of Z. We actually got the Westwood Kid Buu Saga in the UK a couple of months before the US got the Funimation equivalent. We know for sure that Ocean finished production first because the last 3-4 episodes of Z used different titles cards, indicating there wasn't yet Funi footage they could use. I think someone said they were using French footage from AB at that point.

Another interesting bit of trivia is Goku's speech before finishing Kid Buu. The OG Funi dub had no dialogue during that flashback, but the Westwood dub had this speech;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScsFYru ... =SsjTrunks

And then years later the Remastered Funi dub had pretty much the exact same speech;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro-vNpb ... NDPVariety

So Ocean must have been going off an earlier edit of Funi's dub which still had the speech (the same edit which would later be used for the Orange Bricks).

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:27 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:53 am
I just have one question: what makes anyone think that FUNimation used the would-be Ocean dub footage for broadcast TV?

I don't know; this entire thing sounds asinine (from their perspective). And if that is the case, then it just sounds like a rich person's pet fan project. So just go ahead and "leak" it. Or try to reach a deal with Funimation because this thing is dead, which brutally sucks.
Because Ocean was credited for video editing in the Nicktoons version:
Image

There are lots of companies using the name "Ocean" but only one that employs these people:
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encycl ... hp?id=2972
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encycl ... p?id=15646
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:54 am

Super Saiyan Prime wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:25 am
However, there's no indication Kai is even allowed to stream. It's never been on Hulu, Netflix or even Funimation's website.
True, although for quite a while the Nicktoons-edited version was streamed on the Nicktoons website, and the Toonzai-edited version on the Toonzai-website. The uncut version was never streamed, though. So it was allowed online in some capacity, though the specifics will likely be a mystery to us since none of us have access to FUNimation's licensing agreement.

As I mentioned earlier, I do not believe asking FUNimation about this would realistically result in anything. Even if they did, there's no way they'd make a home video release since it sounds like the Ocean dub of Kai was meant to be an edited, TV-only dub. So there's no way they could just slap that audio track on the DVDs since they're all uncut, and the edited audio would eventually be out of sync with the uncut footage. Maybe a streaming option, though.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:07 pm

Yeah asking Funimation nicely to release this dub is a long shot, though Schemmel said once (at a convention?) before Funimation dubbed Super when they would be licensing it and he said "Gen Fukunaga is here, you can ask him". I wonder by the same token has anyone ever approached Gen being like "any chance Funimation could release that Ocean Kai dub"? Probably wouldn't amount to anything but I'd love to see him asked just out of morbid curiosity to see what his response would be :)
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Looking For
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