Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 14; Still Unreleased

[penguintruth]

I prefer Lalainia Lindjberg for Ocean. Though I think Monica Rial for Funimation is even better.

Either is better than Vollmer.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

No. Funimation use "ultra divine water" so they're not accurate, and certainly nowhere near Blue Water's accuracy, the latter actually use the original Japanese term.

Wrong. The water that Gokū drinks the first time on Karin Tower (which is just the regular water) is called the "Chō Sei Sui", or "Super Sacred Water". FUNimation translated this as just "Sacred Water". The water that Gokū drinks the second time on Karin Tower (the one that actually gives the drinker a power-up) is called the "Chō Shin Sui", or "Super God Water". FUNimation translated this as "Ultra Divine Water", which also is an accurate translation. FUNimation actually differentiated between the two waters, like the original version. Also, I like that FUNimation translated the terms instead of leaving them in Japanese (which would sound like gibberish to American/Australian children).

[UristtheGreat]

A good script doesn't mean shit when you can barely listen to the dub due to the shitty voices and bad acting.

[Ringworm128]

I'm looking forward to hearing the Ocean DBK version of Vegetas wrath.

[Attitudefan]

Let's hope it won't be so disappointing.

[The Time Traveller]

Let's hope it won't be so disappointing.

I'm expecting something extremely disappointing, so I won't be disappointed, especially if it turns out to be spectacular.

Oh God, now I'm expecting it to be spectacular, I'm gonna be so disappointed...

[Attitudefan]

Let's hope it won't be so disappointing.

I'm expecting something extremely disappointing, so I won't be disappointed, especially if it turns out to be spectacular.

Oh God, now I'm expecting it to be spectacular, I'm gonna be so disappointed...

That's how I feel.
I'm also waiting for all those stupid kids on youtube to start bashing it when it does come out. Let the flame wars begin!

[penguintruth]

I feel like the most important element will be whoever plays Goku.

Oh, and if Scott McNeil returns as Piccolo, they need to wake him up. He's been phoning it in, in some of his roles in the past few years.

[gmster]

Is the content going to be edited like Nicktoons or aired uncut?

[RazorX]

No. Funimation use "ultra divine water" so they're not accurate, and certainly nowhere near Blue Water's accuracy, the latter actually use the original Japanese term.

Wrong.

Right.

Funi use Ultra divine water for Choushin sui.

The water that Gokū drinks the first time on Karin Tower (which is just the regular water) is called the "Chō Sei Sui", or "Super Sacred Water". FUNimation translated this as just "Sacred Water". The water that Gokū drinks the second time on Karin Tower (the one that actually gives the drinker a power-up) is called the "Chō Shin Sui", or "Super God Water". FUNimation translated this as "Ultra Divine Water", which also is an accurate translation.

Considering I was talking about Choushin sui, it should've been obvious I was talking about Funi using Ultra divine water for Choushin sui.

However Funi got it wrong on both occasions. Their subtitles translate Chousei sui as Super Spirit Water and Choushin sui as Super Sacred Water. They are not that accurate even according to their own Japanese subtitles.

FUNimation actually differentiated between the two waters, like the original version.

So did Blue Water. Your point?

Also, I like that FUNimation translated the terms instead of leaving them in Japanese

For the flak Funi's been getting for not using the Japanese terms, you turn around and compliment them for not using the Japanese terms when it suits you..... I suppose you think, for example, Lord of the Worlds Fist (Or King Kai Fist) would've been better to use instead of Kaioken, after all, it's an accurate translation, easier to understand

But if that's the view you hold, then you'd be grateful to Blue Water for using an accurate translation of Kikoho.

(which would sound like gibberish to American/Australian children).

So you're saying that British/European/Canadian children are smarter than American/Australian children. Fair enough.

The Blue Water dub isn't even aimed at American/Australian children and I don't recall any complaints about the use of Choushin sui in Blue Water's dub but I do recall Blue Water getting complimented for it.

As I said before, Blue Water had confidence in the Anime and their dub to explain what Choushin sui is, and it worked. I had no trouble understanding what Choushin sui was when I first saw it on Blue Water's dub.

Oh God, now I'm expecting it to be spectacular, I'm gonna be so disappointed...

Brian Drummond probably knows how spectacular his Over 9000 and Vegeta's Wrath deliveries were so I think he's going to try and surpass his original performance.

Dragon Ball Kai is in Ocean's capable hands so I'm not worried.....as long as I get confirmation that most of the original cast (especially Brian Drummond and Scott McNeil) reprise their roles.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Right.
Funi use Ultra divine water for Choushin sui.

"Ultra Divine Water" is an accurate translation of "Chō Shin Sui". The Blue Water dub doesn't get extra points for leaving the term in Japanese. Both dubs are just as accurate as each other, in this instance.

Considering I was talking about Choushin sui, it should've been obvious I was talking about Funi using Ultra divine water for Choushin sui.

Again, "Ultra Divine Water" is an accurate translation. Don't believe me? Go ask someone else who knows Japanese on these fora.

However Funi got it wrong on both occasions. Their subtitles translate Chousei sui as Super Spirit Water and Choushin sui as Super Sacred Water. They are not that accurate even according to their own Japanese subtitles.

We're not even talking about the subtitles here. Besides, it's just a minor slip-up. The translator probably mixed up the Kanji, due to him not getting to see them written down in the first place. But hey, at least FUNimation actually has a subtitled release.

For the flak Funi's been getting for not using the Japanese terms, you turn around and compliment them for not using the Japanese terms when it suits you.....

But they did use the Japanese term, just translated into English. Using a translated version of the Japanese term, is just as accurate as using the Japanese term itself.

I suppose you think, for example, Lord of the Worlds Fist (Or King Kai Fist) would've been better to use instead of Kaioken, after all, it's an accurate translation, easier to understand

No, because using that would be hard to fit into the mouth flaps. Just because you can translate a word, doesn't mean you always should. We don't translate the main character's name, for obvious reasons.

But if that's the view you hold, then you'd be grateful to Blue Water for using an accurate translation of Kikoho.

"Spirit Cannon" is not a completely accurate translation of "Kikōhō".

So you're saying that British/European/Canadian children are smarter than American/Australian children. Fair enough.

What? I didn't say anything like that. Where are you pulling this shit from? There's no need to get into racial territory, here. We're just discussing a cartoon show.

The Blue Water dub isn't even aimed at American/Australian children and I don't recall any complaints about the use of Choushin sui in Blue Water's dub but I do recall Blue Water getting complimented for it.

I was talking about the FUNimation dub, which aired in the USA and Australia. In hindsight I should've said "children in general", because I knew you'd react this way.

[SuperSaiyan3Goku]

"Son Goku" was uttered in a Dragon Ball dub. And correctly!

My life is complete.

[RazorX]

"Ultra Divine Water" is an accurate translation of "Chō Shin Sui". The Blue Water dub doesn't get extra points for leaving the term in Japanese. Both dubs are just as accurate as each other, in this instance.

I have never seen a fan refer to Choushin sui as "Ultra divine water" before you.

Again, "Ultra Divine Water" is an accurate translation. Don't believe me? Go ask someone else who knows Japanese on these fora.

It was referred to by a member earlier in this thread as Super God Water. Actually Kanzentai refers to it as Super God Water. It appears Super Sacred Water is closer than Ultra Divine Water.

We're not even talking about the subtitles here. Besides, it's just a minor slip-up. The translator probably mixed up the Kanji, due to him not getting to see them written down in the first place. But hey, at least FUNimation actually has a subtitled release.

But...Super Sacred Water is a more accurate translation.

To Funi's credit, they got someone competant to translate the Japanese version for their subtitle release. However, I doubt Toei would've allowed Funi to use dubtitles over the Japanese version. It's one thing to produce an inaccurate to mildly accurate dub, but to insinuate that the Japanese version would say "mondo cool"....

But they did use the Japanese term, just translated into English. Using a translated version of the Japanese term, is just as accurate as using the Japanese term itself.

Not in this case it isn't. Even if Funi used Super Sacred Water in their dub, it would not be as accurate as using Choushin sui itself because, needless to say, Choushin sui is the original term.

No, because using that would be hard to fit into the mouth flaps. Just because you can translate a word, doesn't mean you always should. We don't translate the main character's name, for obvious reasons.

That's why I put King Kai Fist in brackets, it would fit the mouth flaps and it would be an accurate translation, but it is not a good idea to use it over the original word; Kaioken.

I don't think we can translate Goku to English....

"Spirit Cannon" is not a completely accurate translation of "Kikōhō".

Are you saying Tri-beam is more accurate?

Spirit Cannon is very accurate, unless you want the word "merit" in there, which wouldn't sound as good.

Besides the accuracy, Spirit Cannon sounds much more formidable than Tri-beam. Spirit Cannon is a term which lived up to the intense atmosphere created by Roshi and Chiautzu's pleas to Tien to not use it.

What? I didn't say anything like that. Where are you pulling this shit from? There's no need to get into racial territory, here. We're just discussing a cartoon show.

From your post. You said that Japanese would sound like gibberish to American/Australian children, yet the British/European/Canadian children understood what it was. Of course, I have not spoken to every single one of Blue Water's audience, that would mean speaking to people in their millions, but I have not heard of anyone not knowing what Choushin sui was referring to if they've watched the episodes it is in.

I was talking about the FUNimation dub, which aired in the USA and Australia.

OK, but what does the Funimation dub have anything to do with Blue Water keeping the original terms?

In hindsight I should've said "children in general", because I knew you'd react this way.

No, because the "children in general" should not have any problems knowing what choushin sui is if they watched the episodes. I'm willing to assume you haven't even seen the Blue Water episodes we're talking about. It's one of the things which make the Blue Water dub more mature than Funimation's dub. It's easier for English speakers to understand "Ultra divine water" than "Choushin sui" but Blue Water knows that Dragon Ball's target audience doesn't have to be spoon fed and 6 years after its original broadcast, Blue Water's (original) fans would've grown up and appreciate the touches they've done to their dub.

[bkev]

I think "Spirit Cannon" was used by FUNi in Dragon Ball rather than Tri-Beam... thus, invalid points all around?

[Innagadadavida]

Nope. Tri-beam was what the attack was called in speech.

Inexplicably, however, it was referred to as "The Spirit Cannon" in a dub episode title.

[RazorX]

I think "Spirit Cannon" was used by FUNi in Dragon Ball rather than Tri-Beam... thus, invalid points all around?

What?!

After reading that I had to double check, just watched a clip of Tien performing the attack in the Funimation dub, he definitely says Tri-beam.

It's the Blue Water dub that uses Spirit Cannon.

Inexplicably, however, it was referred to as "The Spirit Cannon" in a dub episode title.

That creates inconsistency and might leave some people wondering what Spirit Cannon is, whether it is the Tri-beam or not. Why would Funi call it Spirit Cannon for the title and Tri-beam in the episode Maybe they know Spirit Cannon sounds more impressive....

[bkev]

Faulty memory strikes again! I should have double-checked. My mistake, guys... :/.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

I have never seen a fan refer to Choushin sui as "Ultra divine water" before you.

I don't call it that myself, but it's still an accurate translation. How many times do I need to say this to you?

It was referred to by a member earlier in this thread as Super God Water. Actually Kanzentai refers to it as Super God Water. It appears Super Sacred Water is closer than Ultra Divine Water.

You're confusing the terms here. "Super Sacred Water" is a translation of "Chō Sei Sui", and "Ultra Divine Water" is a translation of "Chō Shin Sui".

But...Super Sacred Water is a more accurate translation.

Of what?

To Funi's credit, they got someone competant to translate the Japanese version for their subtitle release. However, I doubt Toei would've allowed Funi to use dubtitles over the Japanese version. It's one thing to produce an inaccurate to mildly accurate dub, but to insinuate that the Japanese version would say "mondo cool".....

Okay.... relevance.....? We're talking about the translations of "Chō Sei Sui" and "Chō Shin Sui", here. Save the Season 3 bashing for later.

Not in this case it isn't. Even if Funi used Super Sacred Water in their dub, it would not be as accurate as using Choushin sui itself because, needless to say, Choushin sui is the original term.

Yes, but using a correct translation of the original term is just as accurate as using the original term itself. They both mean the same thing, after all.

That's why I put King Kai Fist in brackets, it would fit the mouth flaps and it would be an accurate translation, but it is not a good idea to use it over the original word; Kaioken.

I agree, it wouldn't. "Kaiōken" is iconic and sounds better than "King Kai Fist". But I guess it just comes down to the translator's preference.

I don't think we can translate Goku to English....

We can. The Kanji that make up his name have meanings.

Are you saying Tri-beam is more accurate?.

Uh, no. Where'd you pull that from?

Spirit Cannon is very accurate, unless you want the word "merit" in there, which wouldn't sound as good.

"Spirit Cultivation Cannon" would sound alright.

Besides the accuracy, Spirit Cannon sounds much more formidable than Tri-beam. Spirit Cannon is a term which lived up to the intense atmosphere created by Roshi and Chiautzu's pleas to Tenshinhan to not use it.

In my opinion, "Spirit Cannon" just sounds like a generic energy beam you'd find in Anime like Yū Yū Hakusho and Ikkitōsen.

From your post. You said that Japanese would sound like gibberish to American/Australian children, yet the British/European/Canadian children understood what it was.

I'm saying that if you ask a random child that speaks English what "Chō Shin Sui" is, they most likely would not know.

OK, but what does the Funimation dub have anything to do with Blue Water keeping the original terms?

We're talking about how FUNimation translated said terms, aswell.

I'm willing to assume you haven't even seen the Blue Water episodes we're talking about. It's one of the things which make the Blue Water dub more mature than Funimation's dub. It's easier for English speakers to understand "Ultra divine water" than "Choushin sui" but Blue Water knows that Dragon Ball's target audience doesn't have to be spoon fed and 6 years after its original broadcast, Blue Water's (original) fans would've grown up and appreciate the touches they've done to their dub.

So you've come to the conclusion that Blue Water's target audience is smarter and more mature than FUNimation's, because the former uses a few more original terms than the latter?

[Mewzard]

From what I recall:

Chō can be Super, Ultra, Hyper, some form of descriptor

Shin can be True, or Divine, dependent on the characters

Sui is generally used for Water

So, Chō Shin Sui can be validly translated as Ultra Divine Water

As for Sei, I believe it can be connected to Spirit or Sacred, but that's probably situational.

Forgive me if anything seems off, I'm going off of rusty memory.

[RazorX]

You're confusing the terms here. "Super Sacred Water" is a translation of "Chō Sei Sui", and "Ultra Divine Water" is a translation of "Chō Shin Sui".

You didn't bother to visit the Kanzentai page did you:

Te ni Irero! Nazo no Choushinsui
Get Your Hands On It! The Mysterious Super God Water

Funi's DVDs tanslate Choushin sui as Super Sacred Water and Chousei sui as Super Spirit Water. By using Ultra divine water, they are not following even their own translated subtitles.

Of what?

Of Choushin sui.

Okay.... relevance.....? We're talking about the translations of "Chō Sei Sui" and "Chō Shin Sui", here. Save the Season 3 bashing for later.

I give Funi credit for something and you try to turn it to season 3 bashing....

Yes, but using a correct translation of the original term is just as accurate as using the original term itself. They both mean the same thing, after all.

Considering there are at least 2 other translations coming from reputable sources, I wouldn't say ultra divine water is as accurate as them.

We can. The Kanji that make up his name have meanings.

However they won't be as accurate as using the original term.

"Spirit Cultivation Cannon" would sound alright.

It would not fit the mouth flaps and it wouldn't sound as good as Spirit Cannon.

In my opinion, "Spirit Cannon" just sounds like a generic energy beam you'd find in Anime like Yū Yū Hakusho and Ikkitōsen.

I doubt those Anime have attacks anywhere near as good as the DB series. Spirit Cannon fits Tien's attack.

I'm saying that if you ask a random child that speaks English what "Chō Shin Sui" is, they most likely would not know.

If you ask a random English speaking child what "Kaioken" is, they might not know. It doesn't mean the dub shouldn't use Kaioken. Not too sure on the point you're trying to make here.

So you've come to the conclusion that Blue Water's target audience is smarter and more mature than FUNimation's, because the former uses a few more original terms than the latter?

I'm saying that Blue Water approached their job in a more mature way than Funimation did. (Or in other words, Blue Water's dub turned out more mature than Funi's dub) It's not only the original terms but dialogue and script wise Blue Water kept it closer to the original Japanese version than Funimation did. At times I get the feeling Funimation think they have to spoon feed their audience and they are too reluctant to move away from some dub terms.