Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 14; Still Unreleased

[8000 Saiyan]

Even though I would prefer Paul Dobson, if Dale has returned, then I'd be glad if he deepened his voice a bit more. His Perfect Cell voice sounds fine, but it's too light compared to the voices of Clarke and Wakamoto.

[Robo4900]

I quite liked Dale Wilson's Westwood Cell voice. It'd be cool to see him return with a more refined take on the character.

[8000 Saiyan]

At this stage I feel even those with power over the actors have done what they could to punish them for their actions. We know from Geekdom101's interview that when Drummond spoke to the production coordinator recently her response was "I still can't say where that is going, I will let you know as soon as I find out, if anyone asks you are playing Vegeta". There is a difference between that and being told "You said what? You shouldn't have told anyone about this". The less confrontational response indicates a change of approach to Ocean's relationship with the actors, specifically those who have spoken. It sounds to me like the damage has been done, Ocean knows the existence of this dub is known, so if the actors speak to them at least if they have Marni's Tweets to discuss they will be able to alert the rights holders there is enough interest to get the dub out. They really have nothing to lose if the opportunity exists.

Sure, their position softened in some areas, but Brian Drummond and Scott McNeil are some of their most notable and prominent actors in Vancouver. Not much that they could realistically do to them. The point was that their mindset was made pretty clear on it via their actions beforehand. They've also probably become increasingly more tight lipped as a result of all this mess. I hope you realize I'm not defending the idea of them remaining quiet, I'm just saying it's a possibility.

At the end of the day Ocean need more titles to be able to compete with Funimation, Bang Zoom, etc for being a relevant dubbing studio in 2017. Kai is their chance to get back in the game big time.

That's assuming desperation on their part, for all we know they probably have more business than they can handle from American/Canadian pre lay work and dubbing cartoons for countries other than Japan. At this point "competing with Funimation" isn't even realistic as one is a distributor while the other isn't, the more accurate thing to say is "competing with Okratron 5000" but, like Bang Zoom, those studios are favoured for their cheap prices among other things. Ocean doesn't want to become a fully non union dubbing company like them, they would probably lose access to their best talent and they value good performance.

Implying that non-union VA's are bad?

[Cure Dragon 255]

They didnt say that. I do love Blue Water works like Pretty Cure and that was mostly newcomers and non union actors . But I think was that going non union would mean they would no longer be able to hire awesome canadian talent that is unionized. And that would be so very sad.

[TheBlackPaladin]

At this stage I feel even those with power over the actors have done what they could to punish them for their actions. We know from Geekdom101's interview that when Drummond spoke to the production coordinator recently her response was "I still can't say where that is going, I will let you know as soon as I find out, if anyone asks you are playing Vegeta". There is a difference between that and being told "You said what? You shouldn't have told anyone about this". The less confrontational response indicates a change of approach to Ocean's relationship with the actors, specifically those who have spoken. It sounds to me like the damage has been done, Ocean knows the existence of this dub is known, so if the actors speak to them at least if they have Marni's Tweets to discuss they will be able to alert the rights holders there is enough interest to get the dub out. They really have nothing to lose if the opportunity exists.

Sure, their position softened in some areas, but Brian Drummond and Scott McNeil are some of their most notable and prominent actors in Vancouver. Not much that they could realistically do to them. The point was that their mindset was made pretty clear on it via their actions beforehand. They've also probably become increasingly more tight lipped as a result of all this mess. I hope you realize I'm not defending the idea of them remaining quiet, I'm just saying it's a possibility.

At the end of the day Ocean need more titles to be able to compete with Funimation, Bang Zoom, etc for being a relevant dubbing studio in 2017. Kai is their chance to get back in the game big time.

That's assuming desperation on their part, for all we know they probably have more business than they can handle from American/Canadian pre lay work and dubbing cartoons for countries other than Japan. At this point "competing with Funimation" isn't even realistic as one is a distributor while the other isn't, the more accurate thing to say is "competing with Okratron 5000" but, like Bang Zoom, those studios are favoured for their cheap prices among other things. Ocean doesn't want to become a fully non union dubbing company like them, they would probably lose access to their best talent and they value good performance.

Implying that non-union VA's are bad?

Well, in the acting biz, there's a perception that union actors are better than non-union actors.

There are three reasons for this. Firstly, there's an idea that, if someone has gone so far as to join a labor union, it means they take their craft extra-seriously, and that it's not just "a hobby that they do on the side." Secondly, with only a very, very, very, very, very few exceptions (with South Park and Power Rangers being the only exceptions that I can think of), all the major, mainstream movies and TV shows in the world are union productions (and even Power Rangers has since become a union show, if I'm not mistaken). Thirdly, there's a perception among a lot of casting directors that union actors are better than non-union actors, which causes a lot of aspiring actors to go union so they can be taken seriously in the business. Plus, as it relates to what Dragon Ball Ireland said, union actors aren't allowed to take non-union work (assuming they obey that rule...which a lot of them don't).

Now, with all that said, regardless of whether we're talking about SAG-AFTRA, the American union, or ACTRA, the Canadian union, the grip that the unions once had on the industry has steadily eroded since the year 2000 for a number of reasons. This has caused a lot of union actors to cave in and either go non-union, or go fi-core, or stay in the union and take non-union work anyway. So, that perception that union actors are better than non-union actors is not nearly as universally accepted as it used to be. It used to be that "non-union" was universally accepted as being synonymous with "non-talented," and that's simply not true anymore. Now it depends on which section of the industry you ask. Some sections of the industry remain pretty heavily unionized, like movies, TV shows, and pre-lay animation. Other sections of the industry, however, like commercials, non-broadcast narration, video games, and dubbing are no longer nearly as unionized as they once were. To give you an idea, a veteran dubbing actor once told me that, in the early 2000's, there were 8-10 union dubs going on in LA alone each year, and now it's closer to 2-4.

So, no, union actors are not necessarily better than non-union actors. There is, however, a perception out there that they are, and a sense of prestige, that's not nearly as powerful as it used to be...but it still exists.

[8000 Saiyan]

Sure, their position softened in some areas, but Brian Drummond and Scott McNeil are some of their most notable and prominent actors in Vancouver. Not much that they could realistically do to them. The point was that their mindset was made pretty clear on it via their actions beforehand. They've also probably become increasingly more tight lipped as a result of all this mess. I hope you realize I'm not defending the idea of them remaining quiet, I'm just saying it's a possibility.


That's assuming desperation on their part, for all we know they probably have more business than they can handle from American/Canadian pre lay work and dubbing cartoons for countries other than Japan. At this point "competing with Funimation" isn't even realistic as one is a distributor while the other isn't, the more accurate thing to say is "competing with Okratron 5000" but, like Bang Zoom, those studios are favoured for their cheap prices among other things. Ocean doesn't want to become a fully non union dubbing company like them, they would probably lose access to their best talent and they value good performance.

Implying that non-union VA's are bad?

Well, in the acting biz, there's a perception that union actors are better than non-union actors.

There are three reasons for this. Firstly, there's an idea that, if someone has gone so far as to join a labor union, it means they take their craft extra-seriously, and that it's not just "a hobby that they do on the side." Secondly, with only a very, very, very, very, very few exceptions (with South Park and Power Rangers being the only exceptions that I can think of), all the major, mainstream movies and TV shows in the world are union productions (and even Power Rangers has since become a union show, if I'm not mistaken). Thirdly, there's a perception among a lot of casting directors that union actors are better than non-union actors, which causes a lot of aspiring actors to go union so they can be taken seriously in the business. Plus, as it relates to what Dragon Ball Ireland said, union actors aren't allowed to take non-union work (assuming they obey that rule...which a lot of them don't).

Now, with all that said, regardless of whether we're talking about SAG-AFTRA, the American union, or ACTRA, the Canadian union, the grip that the unions once had on the industry has steadily eroded since the year 2000 for a number of reasons. This has caused a lot of union actors to cave in and either go non-union, or go fi-core, or stay in the union and take non-union work anyway. So, that perception that union actors are better than non-union actors is not nearly as universally accepted as it used to be. It used to be that "non-union" was universally accepted as being synonymous with "non-talented," and that's simply not true anymore. Now it depends on which section of the industry you ask. Some sections of the industry remain pretty heavily unionized, like movies, TV shows, and pre-lay animation. Other sections of the industry, however, like commercials, non-broadcast narration, video games, and dubbing are no longer nearly as unionized as they once were. To give you an idea, a veteran dubbing actor once told me that, in the early 2000's, there were 8-10 union dubs going on in LA alone each year, and now it's closer to 2-4.

So, no, union actors are not necessarily better than non-union actors. There is, however, a perception out there that they are, and a sense of prestige, that's not nearly as powerful as it used to be...but it still exists.

South Park did have an union actress in the cast, Mary Kay Bergman.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Implying that non-union VA's are bad?

Well, in the acting biz, there's a perception that union actors are better than non-union actors.

There are three reasons for this. Firstly, there's an idea that, if someone has gone so far as to join a labor union, it means they take their craft extra-seriously, and that it's not just "a hobby that they do on the side." Secondly, with only a very, very, very, very, very few exceptions (with South Park and Power Rangers being the only exceptions that I can think of), all the major, mainstream movies and TV shows in the world are union productions (and even Power Rangers has since become a union show, if I'm not mistaken). Thirdly, there's a perception among a lot of casting directors that union actors are better than non-union actors, which causes a lot of aspiring actors to go union so they can be taken seriously in the business. Plus, as it relates to what Dragon Ball Ireland said, union actors aren't allowed to take non-union work (assuming they obey that rule...which a lot of them don't).

Now, with all that said, regardless of whether we're talking about SAG-AFTRA, the American union, or ACTRA, the Canadian union, the grip that the unions once had on the industry has steadily eroded since the year 2000 for a number of reasons. This has caused a lot of union actors to cave in and either go non-union, or go fi-core, or stay in the union and take non-union work anyway. So, that perception that union actors are better than non-union actors is not nearly as universally accepted as it used to be. It used to be that "non-union" was universally accepted as being synonymous with "non-talented," and that's simply not true anymore. Now it depends on which section of the industry you ask. Some sections of the industry remain pretty heavily unionized, like movies, TV shows, and pre-lay animation. Other sections of the industry, however, like commercials, non-broadcast narration, video games, and dubbing are no longer nearly as unionized as they once were. To give you an idea, a veteran dubbing actor once told me that, in the early 2000's, there were 8-10 union dubs going on in LA alone each year, and now it's closer to 2-4.

So, no, union actors are not necessarily better than non-union actors. There is, however, a perception out there that they are, and a sense of prestige, that's not nearly as powerful as it used to be...but it still exists.

South Park did have an union actress in the cast, Mary Kay Bergman.

She was union, but she went fi-core in order to do the show. It caused quite a bit of controversy in the LA voice acting community at the time, as this was before the union's grip on the industry started to erode in earnest.

For that matter, one of the things I said earlier is unfortunately very true: there are plenty of union actors who are just flat-out ignoring the rules and doing non-union work anyway (an expression in the biz known as, "Working off the card"). A good number of those actors don't even bother using a pseudonym, because they're that confident the union won't care or pursue the matter. I mean full-on union actors, not non-union actors or fi-core actors. Heck, I know of a few union committee members who work off the card on a regular basis. It's an unfortunate reality of where the biz has gone, sadly.

[8000 Saiyan]

Well, in the acting biz, there's a perception that union actors are better than non-union actors.

There are three reasons for this. Firstly, there's an idea that, if someone has gone so far as to join a labor union, it means they take their craft extra-seriously, and that it's not just "a hobby that they do on the side." Secondly, with only a very, very, very, very, very few exceptions (with South Park and Power Rangers being the only exceptions that I can think of), all the major, mainstream movies and TV shows in the world are union productions (and even Power Rangers has since become a union show, if I'm not mistaken). Thirdly, there's a perception among a lot of casting directors that union actors are better than non-union actors, which causes a lot of aspiring actors to go union so they can be taken seriously in the business. Plus, as it relates to what Dragon Ball Ireland said, union actors aren't allowed to take non-union work (assuming they obey that rule...which a lot of them don't).

Now, with all that said, regardless of whether we're talking about SAG-AFTRA, the American union, or ACTRA, the Canadian union, the grip that the unions once had on the industry has steadily eroded since the year 2000 for a number of reasons. This has caused a lot of union actors to cave in and either go non-union, or go fi-core, or stay in the union and take non-union work anyway. So, that perception that union actors are better than non-union actors is not nearly as universally accepted as it used to be. It used to be that "non-union" was universally accepted as being synonymous with "non-talented," and that's simply not true anymore. Now it depends on which section of the industry you ask. Some sections of the industry remain pretty heavily unionized, like movies, TV shows, and pre-lay animation. Other sections of the industry, however, like commercials, non-broadcast narration, video games, and dubbing are no longer nearly as unionized as they once were. To give you an idea, a veteran dubbing actor once told me that, in the early 2000's, there were 8-10 union dubs going on in LA alone each year, and now it's closer to 2-4.

So, no, union actors are not necessarily better than non-union actors. There is, however, a perception out there that they are, and a sense of prestige, that's not nearly as powerful as it used to be...but it still exists.

South Park did have an union actress in the cast, Mary Kay Bergman.

She was union, but she went fi-core in order to do the show. It caused quite a bit of controversy in the LA voice acting community at the time, as this was before the union's grip on the industry started to erode in earnest.

For that matter, one of the things I said earlier is unfortunately very true: there are plenty of union actors who are just flat-out ignoring the rules and doing non-union work anyway (an expression in the biz known as, "Working off the card"). A good number of those actors don't even bother using a pseudonym, because they're that confident the union won't care or pursue the matter. I mean full-on union actors, not non-union actors or fi-core actors. Heck, I know of a few union committee members who work off the card on a regular basis. It's an unfortunate reality of where the biz has gone, sadly.

I assume we should call Michael McConnohie, Barbara Goodson and Mona Marshall fi-core, right?

[TheBlackPaladin]

I assume we should call Michael McConnohie, Barbara Goodson and Mona Marshall fi-core, right?

I'll keep this brief only because I don't want to go too off-topic from the Ocean dub of Kai, but it varies from actor to actor how open they are about their union status and how strictly they follow union rules. So, I don't know for certain, but it's certainly entirely possible. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they are.

[ButtfaceKalinski]

Well to tie a bow on the last couple of topics, most people don't know but Dale Wilson is former president of ACTRA and was the founding president of UBCP. Had a huge impact on lots of people in the business.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Well to tie a bow on the last couple of topics, most people don't know but Dale Wilson is former president of ACTRA and was the founding president of UBCP. Had a huge impact on lots of people in the business.

Really? That's very interesting!

[Cure Dragon 255]

Is anyone else looking forward for youngsters who grew up with the Ocean Kai dub to join Kanzenshuu?

[Arian]

Is anyone else looking forward for youngsters who grew up with the Ocean Kai dub to join Kanzenshuu?

Oh, definitely. If those youngsters are lucky and we actually pull this off.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Is anyone else looking forward for youngsters who grew up with the Ocean Kai dub to join Kanzenshuu?

Assuming there are no issues behind the scenes this time and this dub finally gets on the air? I most certainly will.

Another generation growing up on Kai means more Dragon Ball fans. It will also be nice to have a new generation of Ocean dub fans spreading the love for McNeil and Drummond within the fandom (as I feel that with the passage of time its becoming exclusively the hardcore fans that care since Funi's dub has so heavily saturated the market).

And I have a hunch this dub will do very well on WOW even with Super being a thing as Kai will be a better jumping on point for new fans who get to experience all those classic moments for the first time (and the older fans like us who get to witness it for the first time, Ocean dub of Goku turning super saiyan, etc). A well received Ocean dub of Kai 1.0 will also mean we see them dub The Final Chapters down the line, perhaps Super too (probably not but one can hope right?).

I could go on all day, God I so hope this will work. I want to see this dub so much, I'll be so happy if it airs.

[TheGreatness25]

I'm all for another generation of Dragon Ball fans. Like with anything, there's a mixed bag because they might not know the history of the series, but it would definitely be interesting. The more fans, the better in my opinion.

[Robo4900]

I mean, Dragon Ball hasn't been on air in Canada since Blue Water's DB finished, which would be about 10-12 years ago now, so it's been long enough that older viewers would probably need some sort of refresher course, and younger viewers won't have seen the original run, so it'll be great to see a new generation in Canada being introduced to the show. Particularly if Ocean are able to then do Final Chapters and Super(That would be the dream for me).
I really hope it airs here in the UK too, and we once again have regularly-airing new Ocean Dragon Ball.

The cool thing is, since Super's Japanese version is already quite far ahead of the Funi dub, and the Bang Zoom dub's been getting a lot of support despite being even further behind, different versions of current Dragon Ball are being well-accepted, so I think this time around, the hate for the Ocean dub from the US will be laregly muted.
Especially if the scripts are new translations from the Japanese scripts(Which I've heard is the case... That is the case, right?); Funimation's Kai scripts heavily borrow from the legacy Z dub(Yes, they're often modified, and the lines definitely read a lot better and more naturally, but the accuracy is still debatable), and despite the fact Funi Kai is definitely a good dub, it's far from perfect, particularly where Funimation's rather fast and loose approach to scripting is concerned. So, assuming Ocean have done new translations for this one(And given Ocean's past record on this(Death Note, Dragon Ball GT, etc.), and how long they've spent on this one, I think it's safe to assume it's a fresh translation), this will be pretty damn great, and a formiddable competing dub.

[8000 Saiyan]

I mean, Dragon Ball hasn't been on air in Canada since Blue Water's DB finished, which would be about 10-12 years ago now, so it's been long enough that older viewers would probably need some sort of refresher course, and younger viewers won't have seen the original run, so it'll be great to see a new generation in Canada being introduced to the show. Particularly if Ocean are able to then do Final Chapters and Super(That would be the dream for me).
I really hope it airs here in the UK too, and we once again have regularly-airing new Ocean Dragon Ball.

The cool thing is, since Super's Japanese version is already quite far ahead of the Funi dub, and the Bang Zoom dub's been getting a lot of support despite being even further behind, different versions of current Dragon Ball are being well-accepted, so I think this time around, the hate for the Ocean dub from the US will be laregly muted.
Especially if the scripts are new translations from the Japanese scripts(Which I've heard is the case... That is the case, right?); Funimation's Kai scripts heavily borrow from the legacy Z dub(Yes, they're often modified, and the lines definitely read a lot better and more naturally, but the accuracy is still debatable), and despite the fact Funi Kai is definitely a good dub, it's far from perfect, particularly where Funimation's rather fast and loose approach to scripting is concerned. So, assuming Ocean have done new translations for this one(And given Ocean's past record on this(Death Note, Dragon Ball GT, etc.), and how long they've spent on this one, I think it's safe to assume it's a fresh translation), this will be pretty damn great, and a formiddable competing dub.

Dragon Ball GT? Don't you mean Black Lagoon?

[Robo4900]

Dragon Ball GT? Don't you mean Black Lagoon?

Sure, I guess? Never saw that, though.

GT was voiced by the Blue Water crew, but Blue Water is basically just the Calgary wing of Ocean, so really it was still an Ocean dub, just one where they outsourced the voices to the cheaper actors in Calgary.
Point is, Ocean generally like to do their own scripts, with Westwood Z reusing Funimation's being the exception rather than the rule(And I imagine the only reason they did that was because of the extreme time constraints they were under for Westwood Z).

(In case you aren't aware, Blue Water GT used its own script translations; far more accurate than Funimation's version. One of many reasons I consider the Blue Water dub of GT to be superior to Funimation's)

[8000 Saiyan]

Dragon Ball GT? Don't you mean Black Lagoon?

Sure, I guess? Never saw that, though.

GT was voiced by the Blue Water crew, but Blue Water is basically just the Calgary wing of Ocean, so really it was still an Ocean dub, just one where they outsourced the voices to the cheaper actors in Calgary.
Point is, Ocean generally like to do their own scripts, with Westwood Z reusing Funimation's being the exception rather than the rule(And I imagine the only reason they did that was because of the extreme time constraints they were under for Westwood Z).

(In case you aren't aware, Blue Water GT used its own script translations; far more accurate than Funimation's version. One of many reasons I consider the Blue Water dub of GT to be superior to Funimation's)

Yeah, the Blue Water GT dub was accurate, but a lot of the voices left a lot to be desired. How I wish Ocean had dubbed it instead of Blue Water.

[TheBlackPaladin]

How I wish Ocean had dubbed it instead of Blue Water.

They almost did. Ocean had begun casting for it, and one of the voice actors (I want to say it was one of the Dobson brothers, but I could be wrong) said online that he had been cast in some roles. It's not clear how or why, but apparently there was a last-minute decision to have Blue Water dub it instead.