Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 14; Still Unreleased

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by penguintruth » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:14 pm

First, stop treating it as fact that everyone dislikes the Kikuchi music in Kai. Speak for yourself.

Second, Toei can show whatever disrespect they want.

THEY. MADE. THE. SHOW.

You can hate it if you like, that's fine. But to expect a company that did NOT make the show to change it to suit your personal tastes, you're asking for them to spit on the product. It is not Ocean's place to "improve" the show.

We're just arguing in circles now, so I'll leave it at that.
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.


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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by RazorX » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:35 pm

But we DON'T HAVE TO ACCEPT IT. What is the point if it makes the show less enjoyable? We are here to enjoy the show, not uphold some unwritten subjective standard most people don't care about.

I suppose we have different ideas on what 'spits' on the product. Not saying that Kikuchi Kai spits on the product but the way it was handled is disrespectful and sucks enjoyment out of Kai.

It also stifles creativity to demand overseas companies not change the music, they may and have come up with something which is enjoyable and fits the series. The original music is there to enjoy with the original language.

Ocean's replacement music has a high probability of improving the show, by a lot. There's a lot to gain and pretty much nothing to lose by replacing the music. This case is unique and because of that, the arguments you use for your stance are flawed.

The big point that Ocean and their contractors would probably focus on is profit maximisation. As I outlined before, they stand to make more money by replacing the music. I hope they see it that way.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:42 pm

Replacing the music (to say nothing of replacing the voices) doesn't make the show better. It makes it different.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by RazorX » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:44 pm

The music has already been replaced. A replacement of a replacement would make the show better due to the significant limitations of the former replacement music.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Ringworm128 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:58 pm

You're forgetting one thing with the whole "it's Toei's show" argument IT'S ALSO OCEANS SHOW! It would be like if two parents let their friend baby-sit their kid and said "feed him whatever you want" and then the babysitter get's someone telling them off saying "you can't feed him that! His parents feed him this!"

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by kei17 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:13 am

Considering that the Kikuchi score is not the originally intended one for Kai and how hastly they placed it, it can be easily imagined that Toei themselves want it to be replaced with something new that's faithfully made and placed, but probably not by Ocean, though. I guess they would have used Takaki's music instead of Kikuchi's if there had been a sufficient number of pieces at the time.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by dagame10k » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:54 am

RazorX wrote:The music has already been replaced. A replacement of a replacement would make the show better due to the significant limitations of the former replacement music.
Given that company thought it to be a good idea to recycle the MegaMan score, as if to think it fit the tone of the show, and the idea of Ocean doing any better than the averagely placed Kikuchi replacement score requires a big leap of faith that they would actually get a clue, and spend some real money. While the Kikuchi replacement score is flawed in some placement, and it may not originally have been intended for the re-cut Dragon Ball Z animation. It is the music that was originally created for the animation to begin with, and I don't see Ocean matching the feel of either score.

Now I'm not wholly opposed to score replacement, but only when it's justifiable in doing so.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by RazorX » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:04 am

The Buu saga music was a mix of Megaman, Monster Rancher and original pieces specifically made for DBZ. I thought that the music from the former 2 shows fit DBZ really well, even more so than those shows. It's a bit uncanny how it worked out but I'd take that mix of music over an all original music if the said mix is better.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by dbboxkaifan » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:54 am

RazorX wrote:The Buu saga music was a mix of Megaman, Monster Rancher and original pieces specifically made for DBZ. I thought that the music from the former 2 shows fit DBZ really well, even more so than those shows. It's a bit uncanny how it worked out but I'd take that mix of music over an all original music if the said mix is better.
I always wanted to listen to Westdub's DBZ dub ("Ocean Dub") but apparently it was never released on CD or I'm just uninformed. :P

Optionally, if Ocean does get their dub published and on DVD with 5.1 audio it can be re-scored with Yamamoto's Kai soundtrack (I think).
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by ShinGaijin » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:22 pm

dbboxkaifan wrote:I always wanted to listen to Westdub's DBZ dub ("Ocean Dub") but apparently it was never released on CD or I'm just uninformed. :P
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Ringworm128 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:26 pm

That is the OST CD for the Funimation/Saban not the Westwood dub.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by ShinGaijin » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:31 pm

ringworm128 wrote:That is the OST CD for the Funimation/Saban not the Westwood dub.
You mean, Ocean's dub OST and Westwood's dub OST are not the same ? I thought that Ocean and Westwood was the same thing, an english version before FUNimation's dub and the Faulconer's OST.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Gonstead » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:52 pm

ShinGaijin wrote:
ringworm128 wrote:That is the OST CD for the Funimation/Saban not the Westwood dub.
You mean, Ocean's dub OST and Westwood's dub OST are not the same ? I thought that Ocean and Westwood was the same thing, an english version before FUNimation's dub and the Faulconer's OST.
Do note that "Ocean Dub" is simply a fan term that is used to differentiate from the Funimation in-house dub that started in 1999. The previous dub that came before is still a Funimation dub, just utilizing Ocean Group actors, hence the term "Ocean Dub".

The Westwood dub is an alternate English dub that utilizes Ocean Group actors, also alternatively called Ocean Dub or Second Ocean Dub for simplicity.

An example of the Westwood Dub - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh6kzJ6SORs

If your familiar with the original 90's Mega Man cartoon and Monster Rancher, you'll hear a few tracks here and there from those cartoons used in the Z dub.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by penguintruth » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:10 am

Gonstead wrote: An example of the Westwood Dub - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh6kzJ6SORs
Every time I hear the Westwood dub, I'm reminded just how good Brad Swaile is as Gohan.
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.


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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:24 am

kei17 wrote:Considering that the Kikuchi score is not the originally intended one for Kai and how hastly they placed it, it can be easily imagined that Toei themselves want it to be replaced with something new that's faithfully made and placed, but probably not by Ocean, though. I guess they would have used Takaki's music instead of Kikuchi's if there had been a sufficient number of pieces at the time.
I was actually thinking about something like this recently. Kikuchi's one of the highest paid anime composers in the industry. I have to wonder how much money Toei's paying him for the replacement score in Kai. I wonder if it's high enough to the point where get a random dude in Canada would be cheaper...
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by penguintruth » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:25 am

Super Saiyan Prime wrote:Kikuchi's one of the highest paid anime composers in the industry.
Is he? According to who?
I have to wonder how much money Toei's paying him for the replacement score in Kai.
Probably not a whole lot. They're using his old music, not contracting him for new stuff.


What do we even know about Shunsuke Kikuchi? Has he ever done any interviews about his DB/Z work?
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.


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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by kei17 » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:49 am

penguintruth wrote:
I have to wonder how much money Toei's paying him for the replacement score in Kai.
Probably not a whole lot. They're using his old music, not contracting him for new stuff.
Using old music sometimes does cost a lot because of multiple right holders and JASRAC (that is being attacked by Anonymous BTW). It can be so expensive that Namco Bandai bother to make synthesized versions of the Kikuchi score and Toei Animation decide to narrow the range of options in the music placement.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by TripleRach » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:39 pm

I'm a little late noticing this, but some of the arguing in this thread has been a little too heated. So let's chill out and be a little more respectful of other posters.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:13 pm

penguintruth wrote:
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:Kikuchi's one of the highest paid anime composers in the industry.
Is he? According to who?
According to JASRAC his score for DBZ earned the second most amount of money for Japanese scores last year. Given he earns royalties from the music's sales that likely makes him quite well paid.
JASRAC also handed out an International Award for the music that earned the most money overseas last year. Nine of the top 10 Japanese musical pieces in overseas royalties came from anime:

1st place - Composer Kenichi Kamio for the theme song to Barbapapa
2nd place - Composer Shunsuke Kikuchi for the background music for Dragon Ball Z
3rd place - Composer Fumio Sebata for the background music for Kamen Rider Ryuki
4th place - Composer Kuniaki Haishima for the background music for Monster
5th place - Composer Shinji Miyazaki for the background music for Pokémon
6th place - Composer Toshio Masuda for the background music for Naruto
7th place - Composer Shigeto Mori for the background music for Anne of Green Gables
8th place - Composer Shunsuke Kikuchi for the background music for Doraemon
9th place - Composer Taku Iwasaki for the background music for Oban Star-Racers
10th place - Composer Seiji Yokoyama for the background music for Saint Seiya
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by penguintruth » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:31 pm

Want to know the funniest thing about that article on ANN?

I commented on it in the thread for it back when it was posted. :lol:

Still, it doesn't guarantee he gets paid the highest for any one job, just that he gets a lot of royalties from his work being used overseas. I don't think the man has composed for anime since Shin Tenchi Muyo!.

I would guess somebody like Yoko Kanno or Joe Hisaishi is the most paid in Japan.
Last edited by penguintruth on Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.


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